Homosexuality

[jimmydiggs]

Jimmydiggs it's clear to me you are a delusional character who doesn't really know what's he's talking about

The below is an accurate charachterization of your response quoted above.

but instead spouts parts of the bible

I've only quoted the bible three times in this thread.

Isaiah 59
Romans 1:18
Mark 16:15

I've quoted or referred to other sources on other matters.

William Lane Craig (multiple times)
Joel Marks
John Byl (Instrumentalism)
Amazon (Book on Instrumentalism)
As well as implicity quoting Credo_Ut_Intelligam by referring to a post where I do indeed quote him directly.
EDIT: Oh, and I've also quoted Merriam Webster dictionary several times.. as well as Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry. (carm.org)

Also, for you..
Concerning atheist attacks on Theism | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry <--- click

and hasn't expressed an opinion based on your own personal views

I thought Atheism was proclaimed as grounded in logic, reason, fact, etc etc, and now you get upset that I'm not basing off of opinion, subjective views, and conjecture? I am now dubious as to what exactly atheism and theism mean to you.

but just what "God" thinks so actually who's the lemming diving of the cliff here?

When it comes to why on matters of Morality I refer to God and scripture, the below two links might help a bit.

http://christianchat.com/446692-post244.html <--- click
http://christianchat.com/446791-post245.html <--- click

 

[psymon23]

For me the fact some Christians not all but some say that Homosexuals are sinners and are doing something wrong to me that's marginalizing a group of people who choose to live a different way, another person on this site for example compared homosexuals to Peadophiles and insinuated that they are one and the same which is such a misguided and ignorant opinion. You are obviously entitled to yours but it's not your place to tell them it's wrong because the truth is it isn't. Don't murder, don't steal, don't lie and don't cheat stick to these basic principles and to me you're a good and trustworthy person no matter what sexual preference, colour, race etc

 

[psymon23]

An Atheist is someone who believes there is no God and then usually believes in Science and the Theory of Evolution.

 

[jimmydiggs]

For me the fact some Christians not all but some say that Homosexuals are sinners and are doing something wrong to me that's marginalizing a group of people who choose to live a different way,

How is that any different from saying anything else is a sin and wrong? I.E. Murder, rape, theft, pride, gluttony, ect etc...

Also, on Atheism, what permits you to claim it is Objectively wrong to marginalize?

another person on this site for example compared homosexuals to Peadophiles and insinuated that they are one and the same which is such a misguided and ignorant opinion.

I don't know how the person meant it, but atleast in one respect it would be correct. As both are sin, and God hates both.

For you..
http://christianchat.com/476760-post1.html <--- click

You are obviously entitled to yours but it's not your place to tell them it's wrong because the truth is it isn't.

If atheism is true, nothing is wrong.
[youtube]nKkcZ9ZSI5o[/youtube]

Don't murder, don't steal, don't lie and don't cheat stick to these basic principles and to me you're a good and trustworthy person no matter what sexual preference, colour, race etc

STOP MARGINALIZING MURDERERS, THEIVES, LIARS, AND CHEATERS!!!! YOU'RE SUCH A BIGOT!!!!!

I hope you realize the above caps lock is parody.

On athiesm, what is Objectively wrong about muder, theft, pathological lieing, and cheating?

[youtube]nKkcZ9ZSI5o[/youtube]



Also, Psymon23, if you ignore all my other links, please don't ignore this video.

[youtube]nPIOkdNL-QQ[/youtube]

 

[Honey12]

Because an atheist is a person who believes in the theory of evolution. My point is that he is casting judgment and I think it's an ignorant way to be like I said apparently we are all " Gods " people and like I said people choose to be Christians and people choose to be gay both can live together and neither should be made to feel marginalized.

So group of people's lack of theistic belief was the start of man? I see what you're trying to say, but you're saying it wrong.

For me the fact some Christians not all but some say that Homosexuals are sinners and are doing something wrong to me that's marginalizing a group of people who choose to live a different way, another person on this site for example compared homosexuals to Peadophiles and insinuated that they are one and the same which is such a misguided and ignorant opinion. You are obviously entitled to yours but it's not your place to tell them it's wrong because the truth is it isn't. Don't murder, don't steal, don't lie and don't cheat stick to these basic principles and to me you're a good and trustworthy person no matter what sexual preference, colour, race etc

If you are talking about me referring to pedophilia and homosexuality as born sexual attractions, you should get your information straight. I didn't not say they are the same. I was talking about the fact that people always use 'born that way' as a reason for the attraction to be okay, when in fact pedophiles are 'born that way' in terms of attraction also, but we don't say that's okay.

 

[jimmydiggs]

An Atheist is someone who believes there is no God and then usually believes in Science and the Theory of Evolution.

I do not know of any serious compatability issues between ToE and Christianity, except for if a person addresses it from a Methodological Naturalist perspective.

Also, I would say the Christian can rely on science, as Christianity can account for the existance of logic (Trascendental Argument for the Existance of God). Science pre-supposes the truth of logic.


On Scientific Naturalism..
[youtube]LG7Y84KelrU[/youtube]


John Lennox..
[youtube]ETUVUqHVRQY[/youtube]
[youtube]tc_3p36aeKQ[/youtube]

As an aside...
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/6287271/john_lennox_science_is_impossible_without_god_quotes/ <--- click

 

[psymon23]

Honey12 I wasn't talking about you it was on another thread when someone clearly said Homosexuals are wrong and a lot of them are Catholics who as we know molest young boys, that sort of opinion is ignorant and misguided, and to call me a bigot for marginalizing MURDER'S and THIEVES is a ridiculous concept the reason it's different is because that's Illegal and being Gay is not.

In terms of Atheism i'm saying they believe in the theory of evolution and science and firmly believe there is no god.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Honey12 I wasn't talking about you it was on another thread when someone clearly said Homosexuals are wrong and a lot of them are Catholics who as we know molest young boys, that sort of opinion is ignorant and misguided, and to call me a bigot for marginalizing MURDER'S and THIEVES is a ridiculous concept the reason it's different is because that's Illegal and being Gay is not.

The following picture comes from Wikipedia, and may not be reliable.




The Yellow, Orange, Red, and Beige countries are countries where homosexuality is illegal. By your reasoning, their marginalization is moral.
EDIT: Forgot to link to my source ----> click <----
I'll stick with Objective Morality, you can have your Moral Relativism.

For you...
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd5O0czxhz0[/video]

In terms of Atheism i'm saying they believe in the theory of evolution and science and firmly believe there is no god.

Not neccesarily, ever heard of Bhuddism?

The idea of naturalistic athiesm, is completely western in it's origin.

 

[psymon23]

Even if in some countries it's Illegal it doesn't make a difference to me where as Homosexuality does no harm stealing, cheating, murdering and liars all cause harm to others so there's my justification for it. what is your opinion on homosexuals why are they wrong in your eyes? what about Gay Christians?

 

[Honey12]

Honey12 I wasn't talking about you it was on another thread when someone clearly said Homosexuals are wrong and a lot of them are Catholics who as we know molest young boys, that sort of opinion is ignorant and misguided, and to call me a bigot for marginalizing MURDER'S and THIEVES is a ridiculous concept the reason it's different is because that's Illegal and being Gay is not.

In terms of Atheism i'm saying they believe in the theory of evolution and science and firmly believe there is no god.

I apologize for jumping to conclusions...

So, if homosexuality became illegal in the United States, it would be okay to call it wrong?
In that case, it's illegal in several areas, so it can be called wrong.

Once again, you're not thorough with your argument.

And in case you're interested, you can stop attacking me for calling homosexuality wrong, because I haven't said that one time. What I've been pointing out are the flaws in peoples arguments.

 

[psymon23]

Buddhist aren't Atheists!!! they are not the same believe me.

 

[psymon23]

Honey12 I haven't once "attacked" you for saying it's wrong when have I mentioned you on my posts? Also I don't choose to accept homosexuals for what they are because of the legality I was clearly making a point that Jimmy's comparison of them too Murder's was a juvenile one to make. I accept them because I have free will and choose to much as they have free will to choose there path in life.

 

[Honey12]

Honey12 I haven't once "attacked" you for saying it's wrong when have I mentioned you on my posts? Also I don't choose to accept homosexuals for what they are because of the legality I was clearly making a point that Jimmy's comparison of them too Murder's was a juvenile one to make. I accept them because I have free will and choose to much as they have free will to choose there path in life.

...I'm not even going to point anything out. It's obvious it will do no good...

 

[jimmydiggs]

Even if in some countries it's Illegal it doesn't make a difference to me where as Homosexuality does no harm stealing, cheating, murdering and liars all cause harm to others so there's my justification for it.

It does make a difference actually. Morality ceases to exist if it is not Objective. On Atheism, what is Objective wrong with executing homosexuals? (many beige countries do)

what is your opinion on homosexuals why are they wrong in your eyes?

Based on philosophical argumentation, I conclude the Ontology of Morality is Ojbective, and thus grounded in God's Immutable Nature.

Epistimologically... Quoting from another post of mine..

Craig presents a fairly basic approach...

deals with the reality of moral values and properties; moral epistemology deals with our knowledge of moral truths. As far as moral epistemology is concerned, I can appeal to all the same mechanisms, such as moral intuition and reflection, by means of which humanist thinkers are confident that they accurate discern the good and the right. In fact, the Bible actually teaches that God's moral law is "written on the hearts" of all men, so that even those who do not know God's law "do naturally the things of hte law" as "their conscioence bears witness to them" (Rom.2.14-15 at). If that is the case, a theist's moral epistemology need not differ broadly from the humanist's own moral epistemology. Epistemological objections are thus red herrings which need not detain us. I'm contending that theism is neccesary that there might be moral goods and duties.
Reasonable Faith: Christian Truth ... - Google Books<--- click

I would add on top of that though, that biblical inspiration would be key to this as well. If the bible is inspired(basically men wrote what God said), and is an accurate description of "Morality by Yahweh", then we need not go further than the bible.

what about Gay Christians?

They have a great struggle ahead of them to run from their sin.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqdQ6_MAH2A[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5GnzD1Fp6I[/video]

Psymon23, this further explains my position on Christians and homosexual tendancies..

http://christianchat.com/407247-post288.html <--- click

 

[psymon23]

what is there to point out? I am happy to hear your opinion

 

[psymon23]

the point is they will be fine as there's no proof of Heaven or Hell and they should live this life to the fullest and the happiest they can so I don't think "sinning" will matter to them

 

[jimmydiggs]

Buddhist aren't Atheists!!! they are not the same believe me.

I'll let you learn more about that from a Bhuddist.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRutmoPEWaQ[/video]

Within the first two minutes, he confirms what I said.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Honey12 I haven't once "attacked" you for saying it's wrong when have I mentioned you on my posts? Also I don't choose to accept homosexuals for what they are because of the legality I was clearly making a point that Jimmy's comparison of them too Murder's was a juvenile one to make. I accept them because I have free will and choose to much as they have free will to choose there path in life.

My I'm not sure I compared them to murderers in the regard you seem to be implying. I'm just trying to figure out how you come to conclusions of "that's wrong" or "thats wrong" given that as an Atheist you aren't permitted to make such conclusions based on your rejection of the existance Objective Morality.

 

[jimmydiggs]

what is there to point out? I am happy to hear your opinion

Opinions aren't Scientific. They might be informed by science, but the opinion itself is just that.

Definition of OPINION

1
a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : approval, esteem

2
a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view

3
a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based

Opinion - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary <--- click

 

[psymon23]

Granted they don't believe in a "God" but Atheists and Buddhists are not the same that's like saying Jews and Christians are.