House of Cornelius and the law

[trofimus]

My response: The greek word "nomos" ROUTINELY refers to "Torah"...so let's not pretend that New Testament Scriptures do not routinely cite, reference, and apply Torah to us!

Remember, Jesus applies Dt. 6 to us (Mt. 22:37). That's TORAH!

Do you claim Dt. 6 is not Torah?

That would be a strange position...

You wrote: " 'Do not eat pork' does not apply anymore."

My response: Rather! Peter APPLIES Leviticus 11 to us (1 Pe. 1:15-16).

Careful!

blessings...
BibleGuy

Nomos means "law"

And, btw, there is no YHWH in the New testament, so let us use the word "Lord", as we should.

In this way we will understand each other.

Dt 6 - to love our Lord God is still valid in the New Testament. Same with 1 Pe 1:15.

But not all of the Law is still valid. That legal system has passed out, because it was until the Seed will come.

 

[BibleGuy]

The purpose of the law was :

1) To reveal our sinful state. Rom 3:20

2) To inflame sin Rom 7:8

3) To minister death in us Rom 7:10-11

4) To lead us to Christ Gal 3:24

The law is good and holy! But the purpose of the law was not for righteousness or salvation at all, it was to manifest sin in our lives, so that the purpose of grace which is in Jesus is to manifest salvation. Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it.

The law is not for the righteous but for the unrighteous.

1 Timothy 1:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,

[SUP]9[/SUP] realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers


Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross. Satan uses the law against us.

Satan comes and says to you - you broke the law - you are condemned now according to the law. BUT our Lord took that punishment for breaking that law for us. When Christ takes away the condemnation of the law which satan uses against when he accuses us - he is being "disarmed".

If disarmed means anything - it means he did have a weapon but now he doesn't because of our Lord. How great is our salvation in Him!

Hello again!

Let's address these issues again...

1. We agree the law reveals sin (Rom. 3:20). But Paul also said we should NOT SIN! (Rom. 6:15). Thus, Paul taught that we should NOT disobey Torah. Thus we should OBEY Torah. Right?

2. Sure, the law leads us to Christ, but Christ leads us right back to the law! Remember? Eternal life depends upon our obedience to law (Lk. 10:25-28).

3. Our Torah-obedience and Torah-teaching determines our position in the coming kingdom (Mt. 5:19).

4. We agree the law is good. And we should be good. So we should obey (not disobey!) the law. Right?

5. We agree the law is holy. We should be holy. Thus we should obey the law. (For example, Peter applies Lev. 11 to us in 1 Pe 1:15-16). Right?

6. You wrote: "The purpose of the law was not for the righteous..."

My response: You have FLATLY contradicted Dt. 6:25....which Jesus applies to you in Mt. 22:37.

7. You wrote: "Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it."

My response: So then...do you obey the law or not? After all...you just said the law is NOT set aside.

8. You wrote: "Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross."

My response: Cancelled the CERTIFICATE OF DEBT....not cancelled the Torah itself. Remember, Paul tells us to keep God's commands (1 Cor. 7:19) which, of course, are contained in the written Torah of Moses (1 Ki. 2:3).

Can you address these 8 objections to your position?

blessings...
Bibleguy

 

[simplifiedtruth]

How can anyone think that God himself would change hes opinion on if you are to be holy and righteous. The new testament says if you don't keep the commandments you are a liar and the truth is not in you (1 john 2:4). Jesus and Paul and everyone else followed Torah in the new testament and taught the disciples to do the same. Jesus says in Matthew 5:17 don't let it even enter your mind that I have come to do away with the Law and the prophets. 1 john 3:4 points out that sin is the transgression of the Law. What you guys are doing by saying we are not to follow the Law is simply doing away with repentance all together. Jesus gave us the Law for eternal instructions until heaven and earth pass. Repentance is not just mental assent, it requires you to change your ways (action,obedience), and walk in the newness of life. You cant have grace without the law, the two goes hand in hand. It is He's grace that leads us to repentance. Go and sin no more!

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand ! Sin is transgression of the Law. Walk in the newness of life and obey Jesus Christ. He is the same yesterday, today and forever, and is no respecter of persons.

 

[trofimus]

How can anyone think that God himself would change hes opinion on if you are to be holy and righteous. The new testament says if you don't keep the commandments you are a liar and the truth is not in you (1 john 2:4). Jesus and Paul and everyone else followed Torah in the new testament and taught the disciples to do the same. Jesus says in Matthew 5:17 don't let it even enter your mind that I have come to do away with the Law and the prophets. 1 john 3:4 points out that sin is the transgression of the Law. What you guys are doing by saying we are not to follow the Law is simply doing away with repentance all together. Jesus gave us the Law for eternal instructions until heaven and earth pass. Repentance is not just mental assent, it requires you to change your ways (action,obedience), and walk in the newness of life. You cant have grace without the law, the two goes hand in hand. It is He's grace that leads us to repentance. Go and sin no more!

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

1 John 2:1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand ! Sin is transgression of the Law. Walk in the newness of life and obey Jesus Christ. He is the same yesterday, today and forever, and is no respecter of persons.

So.. you still follow burning the witches and killing the ones who committed adultery? I hope not. But in that case your post is in ruins, because it is in the Law.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Didn't Jesus APPLY the "letter" to us? (Mt. 22:37 applies Dt. 6 to us).

And HOW do we express this love for God? Through OBEDIENCE to Torah commands (Dt. 6:25).

Hence, the Spirit writes Torah upon our hearts (Heb. 10:15-16) so that we may obey it...not disobey it!.

blessings..
BibleGuy

No, we express love of GOD by keeping Jesus' commandments. We are to follow his words, not Moses'.

I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren, like thee [Moses]; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them as I shall command him. And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in my name, I will take vengeance on him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19​

Jesus even called the law of Moses "your law" when speaking with the pharisees. It's telling that he didn't call it his law.

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? John 10:34

And even in your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true. John 8:17​

 

[Grace777x70]

Hello again!

Let's address these issues again...

1. We agree the law reveals sin (Rom. 3:20). But Paul also said we should NOT SIN! (Rom. 6:15). Thus, Paul taught that we should NOT disobey Torah. Thus we should OBEY Torah. Right?

2. Sure, the law leads us to Christ, but Christ leads us right back to the law! Remember? Eternal life depends upon our obedience to law (Lk. 10:25-28).

3. Our Torah-obedience and Torah-teaching determines our position in the coming kingdom (Mt. 5:19).

4. We agree the law is good. And we should be good. So we should obey (not disobey!) the law. Right?

5. We agree the law is holy. We should be holy. Thus we should obey the law. (For example, Peter applies Lev. 11 to us in 1 Pe 1:15-16). Right?

6. You wrote: "The purpose of the law was not for the righteous..."

My response: You have FLATLY contradicted Dt. 6:25....which Jesus applies to you in Mt. 22:37.

7. You wrote: "Grace does not set aside the law, but completely satisfied it."

My response: So then...do you obey the law or not? After all...you just said the law is NOT set aside.

8. You wrote: "Col 2:13-15 is where in says that Christ "disarmed" satan having cancelled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and He nailed it to the cross."

My response: Cancelled the CERTIFICATE OF DEBT....not cancelled the Torah itself. Remember, Paul tells us to keep God's commands (1 Cor. 7:19) which, of course, are contained in the written Torah of Moses (1 Ki. 2:3).

Can you address these 8 objections to your position?

blessings...
Bibleguy

I have already addressed these in another thread however I will quote this scripture again.

The law is not for the righteous but for the unrighteous. We who are in Christ now are the righteous. That's why we are dead to the law. The law is still there for the unrighteous but not for the believer. Love fulfills the intent of the law.

1 Timothy 1:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion,
[SUP]7 [/SUP] wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully,

[SUP]9[/SUP] realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers


To go back to the law is committing spiritual adultery on our Lord as romans 7:1-6 clearly shows - you are joined to another now. I encourage you to just pick Him. He is enough!

 

[BibleGuy]

The Christian is dead to the law....period.

Titus 3:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.


Do not be committing spiritual adultery on our Lord by going back to the law. Romans 7:1-6

Hi again!

You wrote: "The Christian is dead to the law....period."

My response: You haven't told us, then, why Jesus APPLIES Torah to us!

Mt. 5:19 Torah-obedience and Torah-teaching determine our position in the coming kingdom.

Mt. 7:21-23 Religious people who exemplify Torah-lessness (Gr. "anomia") will be cast away, or even worse (Mt. 13:41-42).

Jesus sends TORAH-TEACHERS to properly represent His ministry (Mt. 23:34).

Jesus is angry at the religious leaders because they used man-made ideas as an excuse to NOT obey God's commands in Torah (Mk. 7:9). Thus, Jesus expects people to OBEY Torah!

The same Paul who talked about being "dead" to the law also said that those who obey the law will be justified (Rom. 2:13).

That same Paul said that Torah-obedience IS the word of faith which he preached (citing the Torah-obedience Dt. 30:14 FAVORABLY at Rom. 10:8).

AND, spiritual adultery is NOT equal to obeying God's commands! Paul never said any such thing.

Seriously...Paul told us to KEEP God's commands (1 Cor. 7:19), not pretend like they are spiritual adultery!

Spiritual adultery (Heb. "zanah", Ex. 34:15-16) refers to those who DISOBEY Torah, following other gods and their evil ways.

Spiritual adultery is NOT obeying the Torah commanded by the Father, Son, Spirit, Pentateuch, Prophets, Psalms, Proverbs, Apostles, and Epistles!

Here's further confirmation that you've misinterpreted Paul: Read on! Rom. 7:7 says that sin IS Torah-violation.

AND, Paul just previously told us to NOT sin (Rom. 6:15), which means NOT disobey Torah, which means OBEY Torah.

How long will you continue to post this same old posting...rather than actually defend your position in light of the objections I have repeatedly raised against it?

Let's have an engaged conversation please...not merely a posting competition!

Will you answer these Scriptural objections or not?

And if not, then why would you continue to promote a theology which you are not capable of defending?

Peter requires that you make a ready defense regarding my questions pertaining to your hope (1 Pe. 3:15).

Will you defend or not?

blessings..
BibleGuy

 

[simplifiedtruth]

So.. you still follow burning the witches and killing the ones who committed adultery? I hope not. But in that case your post is in ruins, because it is in the Law.

No we don't do that now because we are in Exile to our God and in the land of our enemies. Instead we are to put the evil away from us by excluding such persons from the congregation. Is the judgment of putting to death witches and adulterers righteous ? Yes. However Jesus Christ is going to judge such persons and the death that he gives is spiritual death and exile from the congregation. When Jesus returns he is going to destroy the wicked with the brightness of he's coming , and war against those that are against him and the saints.

 

[trofimus]

No we don't do that now because we are in Exile to our God and in the land of our enemies. Instead we are to put the evil away from us by excluding such persons from the congregation. Is the judgment of putting to death witches and adulterers righteous ? Yes. However Jesus Christ is going to judge such persons and the death that he gives is spiritual death and exile from the congregation. When Jesus returns he is going to destroy the wicked with the brightness of he's coming , and war against those that are against him and the saints.

So you are saying the Law does not apply to you right now and that you dont have to follow all its rules literally.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hi again!

You wrote: "The Christian is dead to the law....period."

My response: You haven't told us, then, why Jesus APPLIES Torah to us!

Mt. 5:19 Torah-obedience and Torah-teaching determine our position in the coming kingdom.

Mt. 7:21-23 Religious people who exemplify Torah-lessness (Gr. "anomia") will be cast away, or even worse (Mt. 13:41-42).

Jesus sends TORAH-TEACHERS to properly represent His ministry (Mt. 23:34).

Jesus is angry at the religious leaders because they used man-made ideas as an excuse to NOT obey God's commands in Torah (Mk. 7:9). Thus, Jesus expects people to OBEY Torah!

The same Paul who talked about being "dead" to the law also said that those who obey the law will be justified (Rom. 2:13).

That same Paul said that Torah-obedience IS the word of faith which he preached (citing the Torah-obedience Dt. 30:14 FAVORABLY at Rom. 10:8).

AND, spiritual adultery is NOT equal to obeying God's commands! Paul never said any such thing.

Seriously...Paul told us to KEEP God's commands (1 Cor. 7:19), not pretend like they are spiritual adultery!

Spiritual adultery (Heb. "zanah", Ex. 34:15-16) refers to those who DISOBEY Torah, following other gods and their evil ways.

Spiritual adultery is NOT obeying the Torah commanded by the Father, Son, Spirit, Pentateuch, Prophets, Psalms, Proverbs, Apostles, and Epistles!

Here's further confirmation that you've misinterpreted Paul: Read on! Rom. 7:7 says that sin IS Torah-violation.

AND, Paul just previously told us to NOT sin (Rom. 6:15), which means NOT disobey Torah, which means OBEY Torah.

How long will you continue to post this same old posting...rather than actually defend your position in light of the objections I have repeatedly raised against it?

Let's have an engaged conversation please...not merely a posting competition!

Will you answer these Scriptural objections or not?

And if not, then why would you continue to promote a theology which you are not capable of defending?

Peter requires that you make a ready defense regarding my questions pertaining to your hope (1 Pe. 3:15).

Will you defend or not?

blessings..
BibleGuy

These have all been answered in another thread before so this is fruitless. I just post now for the viewers to see what is happening and to not be seduced into going back to the law like the Judaizers did to the Galatians - which Paul was furious over.

Going back and forth with law-keepers is a complete waste of time and I am not interested in the least to dispute anything about the law.

We Christians that in in Christ now live by the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus now....the law of love, the law of faith, the law of liberty in Christ, in short - the law of Jesus written on our hearts.

Titus 3:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

Here is a website that deals with this whole "law-keeping" and Hebrew Roots Movement and how it is NOT the gospel of the grace of Christ.

https://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/the-hebrew-roots-movement-so-what/

 

[simplifiedtruth]

So you are saying the Law does not apply to you right now and that you dont have to follow all its rules literally.

The law punishing by death does not apply to me personally because I am not a judge and we don't have a judicial system and court run by Torah set up in this land. It cannot be performed in the land of our enemies by the Law itself. That does not mean you are not judged for such actions. Jesus Christ is the judge and he's judgment is righteous, and he will not let anyone get a free pass on their sins. It is just like this: if you are a man , the laws for women does not apply to you. If you are not a levite , the laws of the levite does not apply to you. If we are in the land of our captivity, the law of punishment by death cannot be judicially executed according to Torah because the nations does not follow the Torah.

 

[trofimus]

The law punishing by death does not apply to me personally because I am not a judge and we don't have a judicial system and court run by Torah set up in this land. It cannot be performed in the land of our enemies by the Law itself. That does not mean you are not judged for such actions. Jesus Christ is the judge and he's judgment is righteous, and he will not let anyone get a free pass on their sins. It is just like this: if you are a man , the laws for women does not apply to you. If you are not a levite , the laws of the levite does not apply to you. If we are in the land of our captivity, the law of punishment by death cannot be judicially executed according to Torah because the nations does not follow the Torah.

In that case I do not know what are you trying to prove... that we should follow the Law but we dont have to?

And we are not in any captivity, we are in freedom.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

These have all been answered in another thread before so this is fruitless. I just post now for the viewers to see what is happening and to not be seduced into going back to the law like the Judaizers did to the Galatians - which Paul was furious over.

Going back and forth with law-keepers is a complete waste of time and I am not interested in the least to dispute anything about the law.

We Christians that in in Christ now live by the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus now....the law of love, the law of faith, the law of liberty in Christ, in short - the law of Jesus written on our hearts.

Titus 3:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.

Here is a website that deals with this whole "law-keeping" and Hebrew Roots Movement and how it is NOT the gospel of the grace of Christ.

https://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/the-hebrew-roots-movement-so-what/

The law (Torah) IS the law of liberty (James 1:25)
The law put in our spirit IS the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33)
The law of love (Torah) itself is all summed up in one sentence: Love God with all your might your neighbor as yourself! (Matthew 22:40)

You say "Going back and forth with law-keepers is a complete waste of time and I am not interested in the least to dispute anything about the law. "

If this is your attitude towards the righteous and holy instructions God (Jesus) himself has told us to obey and live after for ever then you are still in your sins:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity(Lawlessness).

Matthew 5:17 17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Law and grace goes hand in hand, you cannot have one without the other. It is He's grace that leads us to repentance, which means to turn from our wicked ways back to obeying the Father.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

The law (Torah) IS the law of liberty (James 1:25)
The law put in our spirit IS the Torah (Jeremiah 31:33)
The law of love (Torah) itself is all summed up in one sentence: Love God with all your might your neighbor as yourself! (Matthew 22:40)

You say "Going back and forth with law-keepers is a complete waste of time and I am not interested in the least to dispute anything about the law. "

If this is your attitude towards the righteous and holy instructions God (Jesus) himself has told us to obey and live after for ever then you are still in your sins:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity(Lawlessness).

Matthew 5:17 17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. 6Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Law and grace goes hand in hand, you cannot have one without the other. It is He's grace that leads us to repentance, which means to turn from our wicked ways back to obeying the Father.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[Dan_473]

Hi simplifiedtruth (and everybody else),

From your post it sounds like you're in favor of keeping the law.

Many law promoting people also say they don't want to be legalistic.

Is that your feeling, too?

 

[Grace777x70]

(snip)

Law and grace goes hand in hand, you cannot have one without the other. It is He's grace that leads us to repentance, which means to turn from our wicked ways back to obeying the Father.

You are right..the law came to bring us to Christ! Christ did not come to bring us back to the law..that is backwards. The law was a mere shadow of the real thing in Christ. The law is a goner for those in Christ now. The law was made for the righteous and we are the righteous now in Christ.

This is the mess that the Judaizers brought to the Galatians with their "law-keeping". Paul had to set them straight.

Galatians 4:4-11 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law,

[SUP]5 [/SUP] so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

[SUP]7 [/SUP] Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?

[SUP]10 [/SUP] You observe days and months and seasons and years. [SUP]11 [/SUP] I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.


I encourage you not to commit spiritual adultery by going back to law-keeping.

 

[VernonFrancis]

Responding to BibleGuy:

you do realize you can not keep the Torah as written in the Pentateuch? Whatever you are obeying it is not the Law as written by Moses, you are following an interpretation of the Law mixed with the New Covanent. Even while Jesus told you to not mix the old with the new, you believe only those who follow your understanding abide in truth.

How you can read the New Testament and conclude we are to be under the law is difficult to understand.

The New Covanent plainly teaches that we are commanded by God to believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another.
Paul said loving your neighbor is the fulfillment of the law.
Jesus said to love God and to love one another.
Peter said love covers a multitude of sins.

you see obedience to the law as being your expression of love (if you love me you will keep my commandments), the commandments of Christ are to believe God and love one another.

No one has to follow your interpretation of the law to be saved or enter the kingdom of God, you are trying to place a yoke on people that the Lord never demanded of anyone. I realize you are convinced of your position, and for you to go against these teaching would be a sin for you. Just try to realize that your understanding is not binding on others.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

Responding to BibleGuy:

you do realize you can not keep the Torah as written in the Pentateuch? Whatever you are obeying it is not the Law as written by Moses, you are following an interpretation of the Law mixed with the New Covanent. Even while Jesus told you to not mix the old with the new, you believe only those who follow your understanding abide in truth.

How you can read the New Testament and conclude we are to be under the law is difficult to understand.

The New Covanent plainly teaches that we are commanded by God to believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another.
Paul said loving your neighbor is the fulfillment of the law.
Jesus said to love God and to love one another.
Peter said love covers a multitude of sins.

you see obedience to the law as being your expression of love (if you love me you will keep my commandments), the commandments of Christ are to believe God and love one another.

No one has to follow your interpretation of the law to be saved or enter the kingdom of God, you are trying to place a yoke on people that the Lord never demanded of anyone. I realize you are convinced of your position, and for you to go against these teaching would be a sin for you. Just try to realize that your understanding is not binding on others.

Sir, you are simply cherry picking what you want the bible to say for you. You are ignoring scriptural truths to justify your unbiblical and lawless way of interpreting the gospel. Just because you use some scriptures to try to justify this does not do away with the plain truth of what the bible has to say about this subject. You are justifying and covering up your lawlessness and giving a blind eye to the Word! The bible is NOT contrary to itself and you cannot ignore the scriptural facts against your way of interpreting the gospel. This is simply a repetition of Judges 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

 

[trofimus]

Sir, you are simply cherry picking what you want the bible to say for you. You are ignoring scriptural truths to justify your unbiblical and lawless way of interpreting the gospel. Just because you use some scriptures to try to justify this does not do away with the plain truth of what the bible has to say about this subject. You are justifying and covering up your lawlessness and giving a blind eye to the Word! The bible is NOT contrary to itself and you cannot ignore the scriptural facts against your way of interpreting the gospel. This is simply a repetition of Judges 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Old Testament, New Testament.

Look at the words - old, new.

New is actual.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

To all those who think we are not to obey the Fathers commandments and instructions. Are you even reading the posts that clearly show you are in transgression and cherry picking in the new testament to fit your unbiblical and lawless way of interpreting the gospel ? There are tons of scriptural truths here from the new testament about keeping the law that you keep on ignoring like it does not even exist. Are we dealing with cognitive dissonance here ?