How do you believe someone is of the elect

[HeIsHere]

You are contradicting yourself, perhaps without realizing it.

No contradiction, the victory of the cross is a fact, a reality.

However people like you deny this by your insistence on gaining, keeping, maintaining, achieving salvation under the guise of "keeping His commands."

You know words are slippery but underneath the "doctrine" you are proposing is the other incorrect non-biblical category of ....
I am saving myself!

Should I say welcome back now?

 

[AFreeman]

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

1 John 2:1-7
2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2:2 And he is the atonement for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep His Commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth NOT His Commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth is NOT in him.
2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old Commandment which ye had from the Beginning. The old Commandment is The Word which ye have heard from the Beginning.

 

[HeIsHere]

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

1 John 2:1-7
2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2:2 And he is the atonement for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep His Commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth NOT His Commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth is NOT in him.
2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
2:7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old Commandment which ye had from the Beginning. The old Commandment is The Word which ye have heard from the Beginning.

Same style, throw up scripture with no regard to what it means within the context of the Gospel message, the people to whom it was written and why.

 

[PaulThomson]

Awesome. Any other times scripture speaks of?

Do you have something in mind?

 

[Karlon]

before they truly believe in Jesus?

it seems unlikely, but the Holy Spirit can tell someone if someone else is a Christian or going to be one. we never know what the H.S. can say, when or about what or who. you have to admit, that's a possibility.

 

[Cameron143]

Do you have something in mind?

Sure. Romans 8:29 and following.
Who is the whom foreknown?
When were they foreknown?

 

[PaulThomson]

Sure. Romans 8:29 and following.
Who is the whom foreknown?
When were they foreknown?

All those who were and have been conceived.
From conception.

 

[Cameron143]

All those who were and have been conceived.
From conception.

If you read further in the Romans 8 passage, all who were foreknown were also predestined, called, justified, and glorified. Do you believe this is true of all conceived?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

before they truly believe in Jesus?

He is the elect the only begotten son

“And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan. And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. ( John 18:37)

He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.( John 5:22, 27, acts 10:42, 2 Corinthians 5:10-11)

I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof. Who among you will give ear to this? who will hearken and hear for the time to come?”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭42:1, 3-4, 8-10, 23‬

The only way to be “ the elect “ is to be in the body of Jesus , the elect and approved and beloved only begotten son of God .

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to be “in Christ “ for things like this term “ you are the elect of God “ to be applied to us it is t beforehand beforehand everyone’s lost and Jesus the one elect and worthy has came offering salvation , redemption from our state of certain demise to come . it all hinges on whether we believe the gospel or not to be applied to us we can’t believe before we hear it

“As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?

…. Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:11-14, 17‬ ‭

you can see how salvation is a result of faith in chist and how we have to hear the gospel to be saved or damned actually

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a remember what Galatians 3 said about baptism into Christ and how we become one with and in him and that makes us Gods children the result of having faith and being in the body of the son or the church.

“For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is the source of our adoption we have to hear the message of the son and become children

The way the question is put I dont think it really can be answered legitimately but for to say “ no one can be elect before they believe in Jesus to be elect we have to be in him and to be in him we have to hear and believe the gospel and act in faith .



“Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. This is what the ancients were commended for.

And without faith it is impossible to please God,

because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists

and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:1-2, 6‬ ‭NIV‬‬

That’s the right idea there in Hebrews about faith we should believe God exists but also that God expects us to act upright and good towards others and that he rewards the people that seek him

See the issue is we have to kind of reject What that says in order to believe “ everything is all predestined our choices and actions have no impact were either chosen already or we aren’t “ god chose mankind and so he sent the gospel to us our “Noah’s ark “

 

[birdie]

before they truly believe in Jesus?

Thanks Intersection, for your question about how can someone be elect before they believe in Jesus.

In my opinion, the term 'elect' in the Bible is talking about all those who are the true believers in Christ. I don't see the Bible calling them 'elect' before they are converted to Christ. The term elect is similar to saying someone is saved. However, it emphasizes the fact that God elected each saved person to inherit eternal life with him. In other words, it is only through the will and effort of God that a person is able to believe and to be saved. Further, each saved person was predestined by God to be among the elect. Who God elects is up to him. It is his business, so to speak.

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. " (1 Peter 1:2)

God gathers the elect to him through the sending forth of the gospel, which seems to be what is happening here: "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. " The term 'angels' simply means 'messengers', and, is likely talking about the true believers getting out the gospel so that others can be saved as well, and gathered to Christ. 'From one end of heaven to the other' is a way of saying everyone who is saved, in other words, all of the saints who are raised by Christ to newness of life in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

 

[DavidLamb]

Thanks Intersection, for your question about how can someone be elect before they believe in Jesus.

In my opinion, the term 'elect' in the Bible is talking about all those who are the true believers in Christ. I don't see the Bible calling them 'elect' before they are converted to Christ. The term elect is similar to saying someone is saved. However, it emphasizes the fact that God elected each saved person to inherit eternal life with him. In other words, it is only through the will and effort of God that a person is able to believe and to be saved. Further, each saved person was predestined by God to be among the elect. Who God elects is up to him. It is his business, so to speak.

"Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. " (1 Peter 1:2)

God gathers the elect to him through the sending forth of the gospel, which seems to be what is happening here: "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. " The term 'angels' simply means 'messengers', and, is likely talking about the true believers getting out the gospel so that others can be saved as well, and gathered to Christ. 'From one end of heaven to the other' is a way of saying everyone who is saved, in other words, all of the saints who are raised by Christ to newness of life in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

But we see Paul writing to Christians at Ephesus:

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,” (Eph 1:3-4 NKJV)

The word translated "chose" there is the Greek "elektos", which elsewhere is translated "elect(ed)". No of course we don't know whether somebody is elect or not until they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and are saved, but God does.

 

[HeIsHere]

This is your forte, distorting faces of otherwise beautiful people. Find someone else to bicker with. I have better things to do.

Seems like you join in when it is a topic you are in agreement on, admit it we all do it on here.

 

[Mem]

Seems like you join in when it is a topic you are in agreement on, admit it we all do it on here.

It would be more accurate to assume that I have since taken that policy rather than seeking out any position that I disagree with. That is, I've adopted a preference to continue in the capacity of a supportive role, rather than any adversarial. The latter deployment is already found in abundance (and there many much more qualified for this assignment) and so I'd 'like' to fill a void that I've noted in the former.
It's possible that I've only chosen the route of least resistance, having my peace in primary interest rather than seeking any sort of approval from anyone.
I've found a handful to posters' that possess an adequate amount of self-awareness that I'd gladly hope to encourage, though barely. Confidence is one thing, but arrogance is another.

 

[HeIsHere]

It would be more accurate to assume that I have since taken that policy rather than seeking out any position that I disagree with. That is, I've adopted a preference to continue in the capacity of a supportive role, rather than any adversarial. The latter deployment is already found in abundance (and there many much more qualified for this assignment) and so I'd 'like' to fill a void that I've noted in the former.
It's possible that I've only chosen the route of least resistance, having my peace in primary interest rather than seeking any sort of approval from anyone.
I've found a handful to posters' that possess an adequate amount of self-awareness that I'd gladly hope to encourage, though barely. Confidence is one thing, but arrogance is another.

You have chosen a hopeful path.