How does Jesus' suffering on the cross compare to an eternity in Hell?
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It doesn't have to. In His Fathers eyes it was enough, and it was finished. Rejecting the salvation offered results in the only alternative for sin, eternal purging and burning. God is going to burn up all sin so that there is no sin left except in the lake of fire. There it will remain. Those who embrace it and reject the offer of holiness will burn forever in that place of eternal burning of all sin. Choose holiness it is way better.
What does it matter that he suffered at all?It doesn't have to. In His Fathers eyes it was enough, and it was finished. Rejecting the salvation offered results in the only alternative for sin, eternal purging and burning. God is going to burn up all sin so that there is no sin left except in the lake of fire. There it will remain. Those who embrace it and reject the offer of holiness will burn forever in that place of eternal burning of all sin. Choose holiness it is way better.
I think that our understanding is very limited. In Corinthians they talk about seeing through a glass dimly. There are things that seem unjust and leave us confused. What I go back to, are the few things I know. I know that God is love. I know that God is just. I know that God is holy and merciful. Often we make bold declarations about God or try and interpret him in light of our imperfect comprehension. I know that God will not allow an injustice to happen. I know that he loves the people of this world more than I can possibly understand. God, is who he says he is, and what will be, will not be evil and cruel. He is not sadistic or petty. Our own understanding is not something we can lean on in these eternal issues. Trust him. He's got this.
Sending children to fire and sulfur because they don't believe a man from a village in ancient Judea will give them eternal life for the sake of 'believing' in Him is just and loving?
S
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Because God is holy and rebellion against a holy God demands a penalty. God can only justify the sinner and still be just if there is a penalty paid. Think of a courtroom. We don't let criminals get away with it just because they say their sorry. At least our courts are not supposed to work that way in theory. We have a basic understanding that it is not right to let crimes go unpunished.
I think you are speaking to my point. Our understanding doesn't make sense in light of the character of God. I do not believe he tosses children into fire and sulfur. In some ancient religions the sacrifice of children, to appease an angry god did exist, and God (according to the bible) called that an abomination. That is why I said we have to filter our understanding of God through the nature of God.
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I think the children are safe. You can stand in judgment of Him finding fault if you want, He gave you free will to do that. He does not force anyone to do anything. If you want to complain that He did not create a happy place for those that reject him you can do that. It won't do you any good. He is God. He does what He wants. He did not have to create you. He is not served by creating you. You do not add anything to his happiness. Be thankful or don't. He does not care if you don't like the choices you have. He sets before you death or life. No third choice. Choose Life.
S
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Like I said. It is your choice. There is only Life and Death. However, if you really want to know, the crime of knowing that God did not want you to suffer eternal fire, and so He sent His Son to die on the cross for your sins so that you can be reconciled to God, and then Jesus arose from the Dead and is alive right now and offering to forgive you of all your sins and make it as though you had never sinned, and be your constant companion and best friend and also offer you eternal life, and then if you say "Eh.. no thanks, I'll pass" That crime is worth eternal flame and rightly so. That crime says I love my sin and to my sins I will go, and the punishment be damned. It is a crime worthy of eternal burning. You just don't have a revelation of the heinous sinfulness of your sins. God is holy, perfect and eternally righteous. He cannot and will not tolerate sin in the universe. He has only given it this much time so that all who will, will come to Him for salvation before he burns it all up out of the universe. Those that say, they don't believe that and who want to embrace their sins are worthy of embracing them forever where they are to be appointed to the Lake of Fire.
Why do you think they are safe?
I do not choose to hunger or thirst, to sleep, I have little control over my bodily functions. I choose not whether I feel the cold or the heat...what free will do I have?
That is not choice. That is CONSEQUENCE. If I transgress the law (given I am caught) I do not CHOOSE punishment for my action, I face the CONSEQUENCE of my action.
S
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Maybe you're right. Maybe you have already been given over to a reprobate mind and I am wasting my time answering your questions. Terrifying thought. Maybe you don't have the capacity to repent and believe. I guess you're the only one that really knows the answer to that question.
I can CHOOSE to forgo food and water. This is something I have personal control over. I cannot choose how my body would respond to my depriving it of what it requires. I would begin to starve. This is a CONSEQUENCE. Do you understand the distinction?
I'm not sure I can CHOOSE to believe any more than I can choose to love, hate, fly. Tell what convinced YOU to believe that believing in a man who lived in Roman Judea died for you millennia before your birth.
Hello BuffyLou, the Cross comes to mind first and foremost, of course.
God began the "scarlet thread" (as some call it) of our redemption while our first parents we still living in the Garden of God .. Genesis 3:21, though I believe that we see His love and loving care for us in many other ways as well, from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22.
~Deut
Romans 5
8 God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled,
we shall be saved by His life.
we shall be saved by His life.
The question seems fair enough if the understanding of the cross is that Jesus was paying the just penalty of God's wrath against sin on the cross. Yet I, for one, do not believe that such is so.
The reality is, as you say, there are consequences to actions. In order for God to create an objective world it had to have rules, and the "rules" are based in His nature. What goes with His nature is creation and life, to do the opposite is death and destruction.
All human beings go against God's will, some maliciously and others out of ignorance. We are blindly searching in a world full of sin and are bound to commit sins ourselves. Those who love sin pursue it and create more death and destruction.
Yet all were subject to that death and destruction, so God in His love made Himself subject to the death and destruction though He himself had none of it. In doing so He swallowed death up in Himself and defeated it.
To appropriate it those who were blind now can see righteousness in Him and follow. Those who love sin and death and maliciously go against His will continue to pursue sin.
And there are consequences.
The reality is, as you say, there are consequences to actions. In order for God to create an objective world it had to have rules, and the "rules" are based in His nature. What goes with His nature is creation and life, to do the opposite is death and destruction.
All human beings go against God's will, some maliciously and others out of ignorance. We are blindly searching in a world full of sin and are bound to commit sins ourselves. Those who love sin pursue it and create more death and destruction.
Yet all were subject to that death and destruction, so God in His love made Himself subject to the death and destruction though He himself had none of it. In doing so He swallowed death up in Himself and defeated it.
To appropriate it those who were blind now can see righteousness in Him and follow. Those who love sin and death and maliciously go against His will continue to pursue sin.
And there are consequences.
Jesus went to hell as a man.
Took over the place and left with they keys.
He satisfied justice, paid your debt.
One perfect, for all the imperfect.
He defeated death taking away its power our us spirituality.
Removed the separation that was between God and man
so we could be reconnected to what God is once again.
Even more to make us into what He is.
So you don't have to die a spiritual death when you enter the presence of God.
Spiritual things are eternal.
What happens to darkness when you turn on the light?
That's the spiritual reality of hell.
Darkness in the light.
God is an all consuming fire.
We who come to Him do so with what the Spirit of Christ in us has made fireproof.
Our nature, transformed into the nature of light, into what can survive in his presence.
Into what He is in Spirit.
What is heaven for one is hell for another, the very presence of God.
S
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I was in jail. I was ashamed. I felt guilty of being a bad person. I heard that Jesus loved me and that the Bible said so. I read the Bible. I had faith. I was born again. The Word of God is supernatural. It will impart faith. Just read it with an open mind. Start with the Gospel of John and go from there. Many of your questions will probably be answered. If not we can talk again.