How does Satan work in the church?

[Blik]

You have a misunderstanding in those verses, the only one that speaks to the law in the sense of Moses is Romans and the establishment of the law is not a matter of living under that covenant but in establishing its purpose which was to bring sin to full sinfulness. A discussion you conveniently skipped over between Romans 6 and Romans 7.

The problem is you're bringing Scripture not relevant to the context to preserve a doctrine rather than understanding verses in their context and then checking them against Scripture. You're "learning" is nothing more than twisting Scripture to preserve your doctrine.

Are you saying that when these verses say law they aren't speaking of the law? What are they speaking to then?

 

[bojack]

Some people in church are deeply offended at even small things they wouldn't probably think twice about in many cases outside church .. Or it seems that way to me sometimes .. I think it is probably a demonic influence if true ..

 

[Bbrdrd]

Are you saying that when these verses say law they aren't speaking of the law? What are they speaking to then?

They're speaking of God's law, the law that existed prior to Moses and continues to exist today. Nomos was used for a variety of different concepts within the Bible just as it is today, how we can say "law" and be speaking of something like gravity or a penal code.

Context determines what law Paul is refering to as he refers to 3 separate laws at different places in the Bible, the law of man, the law of God, and the Sinai covenant.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

Satan divides the church when churches give more focus on politics than Jesus.

 

[blueluna5]

Satan works in the churches the same way he worked in the garden of Eden and with Christ in the wilderness.

In the Garden of Eden, Satan told them that God had all knowledge which was true, Satan added that if they had all knowledge they would be like God which was Satan’s deceptive addition to truth.

Christ was tempted to test God by jumping from a high place, then to satisfy his hunger by turning a stone to bread, and tempted by Satan offering him world power. Satan quoted scripture to Christ to justify his temptations just as Satan is doing in the church today. Christ knew the whole truth, as a knowledge of the whole truth that is in scripture would take care of the additions to our church doctrines Satan has suggested.

So, we have those in our church saying God cancelled the Sabbath and changed it to the day the pagans used as a Sabbath, that God added Easter as a substitute for Passover, and insist that God cancelled all the Sinai covenant when he made things of the new covenant obsolete. They are all scripture based with a twist.

We celebrate on Sunday bc that's when Jesus rose from the dead. He died on Friday and rose on Sunday like good Friday and Easter. It doesn't have to do with pagans.

The Passover was symbolic of Jesus coming. There's nothing wrong with doing it, but we don't need a perfect lamb to kill bc Jesus already died for us.

The 10 commandments on Mount Sinai? We are still suppose to try to follow them. Even though obviously we'll fail at it ultimately. I guess that's the point and the difference between the past and present.

 

[Blain]

Satan divides the church when churches give more focus on politics than Jesus.

Spot on, Ilike to joke that if you want cause war there is three maon things to do it with religion politics and football don't get me started on my family and football

 

[Mem]

Reiterating the short answer that appears to unanimously be 'by deception,' I would add through (the distortion of) perception, wherein conception of the lie occurs, without exception.

 

[garee]

In Acts 15, the Sabbath is not among the requirements that were given to gentile Christians, which most of us are. Colossians tells us that Sabbath is merely a shadow of things to come, but Christ is the reality.

Men have changed the word rest (sabbath) a non time sensitive word into "week" .

The ceremonial rest as a fast is a day set aside when a person does not have to do work to feed themselves . (six days you shall work) . The 7th is to be set aside to share the true fast spoken of to John when he had his doubts.

The new testament pronounces the new era of sabbath fasts .The kind of fast accompanied with prayer that can cast out lying spirits .Like those which helped John captive to doubt till he heard the good new gospel, the true fast (the parable Isaiah 58)

Luke 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

In conclusion all of those metaphors above show a person has heard gospel preached.

 

[Dino246]

Men have changed the word rest (sabbath) a non time sensitive word into "week" .

The ceremonial rest as a fast is a day set aside when a person does not have to do work to feed themselves . (six days you shall work) . The 7th is to be set aside to share the true fast spoken of to John when he had his doubts.

The new testament pronounces the new era of sabbath fasts .The kind of fast accompanied with prayer that can cast out lying spirits .Like those which helped John captive to doubt till he heard the good new gospel, the true fast (the parable Isaiah 58)

Luke 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

In conclusion all of those metaphors above show a person has heard gospel preached.

It would be great if you could understand "relevant" and apply it consistently.

 

[garee]

Spot on, Ilike to joke that if you want cause war there is three maon things to do it with religion politics and football don't get me started on my family and football

I don't think Satan is concerned with the political nations of this world as if we did wrestle against flesh and blood .Satan is the god of this world. The kingdoms of this world are under his control One world government.

Christian as new creatures are not of this world As sons of God it is not known what we will be.

Satan is more interested in using mankind as antichrists (a legion) in order to make the gospel without effect. We can see that when the father of lies caused false pride with Peter and in return Peter blasphemed the Son of man, Jesus .

Satan who has no form was rebuked by the lord not seen .The father putting His words of the lips of Jesus the apostle . (The power to rebuke) Saying get behind me not seen (walk by faith) not Peter seen . Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the Son of man. We must be careful to rightly divide between the things of men seen, the temporal. And those of God not seen, the eternal glory

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Mathew 16: 22-23

 

[garee]

It would be great if you could understand "relevant" and apply it consistently.

I am trying to help you see . You refuse to look to the gospel meaning hid in the parables( prophecy) , the word or tongue of God.

You consistently make the parables irrelevant .When ever we discuss that no man can serve two teaching good Masters you walk away . Unless your Catholic, the sign and lying wonder seekers (no faith) they hold up their daysman called the Pope, above sola scriptura

 

[Dino246]

I am trying to help you see .

Bahaha! That is funny.

You refuse to look to the gospel meaning hid in the parables( prophecy) , the word or tongue of God.

The gospel is not hidden in parables. It's in the plain text of Scripture. You can't see it, because you think the plain text is parables!

You consistently make the parables irrelevant .

I know what a parable is. You apparently don't.

When ever we discuss that no man can serve two teaching good Masters you walk away . Unless your Catholic, the sign and lying wonder seekers (no faith) they hold up their daysman called the Pope, above sola scriptura

Irrelevant.

 

[Blik]

We celebrate on Sunday bc that's when Jesus rose from the dead. He died on Friday and rose on Sunday like good Friday and Easter. It doesn't have to do with pagans.

The Passover was symbolic of Jesus coming. There's nothing wrong with doing it, but we don't need a perfect lamb to kill bc Jesus already died for us.

The 10 commandments on Mount Sinai? We are still suppose to try to follow them. Even though obviously we'll fail at it ultimately. I guess that's the point and the difference between the past and present.

Our church meets on Sunday, we have no choice in the matter. But we can choose to believe Mary had the power to change the Sabbath, or changing it was a decision of men.

Our church celebrates Christ on a man made Easter, that is the way it is done take it or leave church. To leave church is unthinkable. But God told us to celebrate it on Passover forever and did not tell us to celebrate it on Easter. Even that name is man made. We can choose to believe what the Lord tells us or believe what man has told us.

The Gnostics believe that God is only spiritual and all of the earth is not of God, but if you read Colossians you find that God says that is not so. The Gnostics say don't handle, taste, or touch but knowledge and reality is only spiritual. To say that it is past that we are to celebrate or obey physically anymore, that all is now spiritual only is not what the Lord teaches. Paul says not to submit to these regulations.

 

[throughfaith]

Satan works in the churches the same way he worked in the garden of Eden and with Christ in the wilderness.

In the Garden of Eden, Satan told them that God had all knowledge which was true, Satan added that if they had all knowledge they would be like God which was Satan’s deceptive addition to truth.

Christ was tempted to test God by jumping from a high place, then to satisfy his hunger by turning a stone to bread, and tempted by Satan offering him world power. Satan quoted scripture to Christ to justify his temptations just as Satan is doing in the church today. Christ knew the whole truth, as a knowledge of the whole truth that is in scripture would take care of the additions to our church doctrines Satan has suggested.

So, we have those in our church saying God cancelled the Sabbath and changed it to the day the pagans used as a Sabbath, that God added Easter as a substitute for Passover, and insist that God cancelled all the Sinai covenant when he made things of the new covenant obsolete. They are all scripture based with a twist.

They let him in through the front door .

 

[Blik]

They're speaking of God's law, the law that existed prior to Moses and continues to exist today. Nomos was used for a variety of different concepts within the Bible just as it is today, how we can say "law" and be speaking of something like gravity or a penal code.

Context determines what law Paul is refering to as he refers to 3 separate laws at different places in the Bible, the law of man, the law of God, and the Sinai covenant.

You are forgetting the laws that Moses gave to the people to guide them to obeying the eternal laws like diet, and cutting of flesh. At the time Paul was writing there the people who record what was happening at that time say that there was a great stink about these laws. In Acts we are told there was lots of controversy regarding these laws. There was a special counsel about these laws. We are told be the historians that wrote of that period that these laws were called The Laws of Moses. It is these laws that Galatians addresses.

Paul never once considered that any people would get these laws mixed up with the Sinai Covenant for at that time even the pagans knew that when the one true God was accepted, so was the law of love that is the basic premise of all God's laws.

 

[Bbrdrd]

You are forgetting the laws that Moses gave to the people to guide them to obeying the eternal laws like diet, and cutting of flesh. At the time Paul was writing there the people who record what was happening at that time say that there was a great stink about these laws. In Acts we are told there was lots of controversy regarding these laws. There was a special counsel about these laws. We are told be the historians that wrote of that period that these laws were called The Laws of Moses. It is these laws that Galatians addresses.

Paul never once considered that any people would get these laws mixed up with the Sinai Covenant for at that time even the pagans knew that when the one true God was accepted, so was the law of love that is the basic premise of all God's laws.

The law of Moses didn't just pertain to cutting of flesh and dietary laws but the entire 613 commandments written in the covenant. The trouble is you're trying to squeeze Sabbath keeping into a legal issue when the legal aspect of it was something distinct to the Sinai covernant.

To try to mix in legal requirements with faith is to make faith null and void. That's why even though there still exists a law that Christians are called to embody it is not a matter of legal indebtedness.

 

[Blik]

The law of Moses didn't just pertain to cutting of flesh and dietary laws but the entire 613 commandments written in the covenant. The trouble is you're trying to squeeze Sabbath keeping into a legal issue when the legal aspect of it was something distinct to the Sinai covernant.

To try to mix in legal requirements with faith is to make faith null and void. That's why even though there still exists a law that Christians are called to embody it is not a matter of legal indebtedness.

In your mind it contains 613 laws, but it is not you writing this book, it was Paul. We need to know what Paul was referring to, and it isn't what you are referring to. Or what I think. We are to search for what Paul meant with the words he used, and what God was telling Paul. That means we have to learn about what words meant to men living in the age that Paul lived in so we know the language as it was then. We have to know all the characteristics of God, for what Paul says is from God and God says nothing outside His character. That is why I spent three months in study, to learn these things.

The law of Moses didn't just pertain to cutting of flesh and dietary laws but the entire 613 commandments written in the covenant. The trouble is you're trying to squeeze Sabbath keeping into a legal issue when the legal aspect of it was something distinct to the Sinai covernant.

To try to mix in legal requirements with faith is to make faith null and void. That's why even though there still exists a law that Christians are called to embody it is not a matter of legal indebtedness.

Your post indicates that you have proof of what laws were included in the Law of Moses that Paul referred to. Would you please present that proof?

I spent months searching for that information and checked each answer I found carefully for accuracy. You seem to simply have it. I hope it isn't just something you assume. If you are correct, then there is scripture that disagrees with you. My final check on my findings was that all scripture agrees with all other scripture. The 613 laws include the ten commandments, the correct answer is very important.

I don't think you can correctly use the word legal to describe scripture, it is a secular term. I checked my concordance and that word is not in the bible.

 

[Bbrdrd]

In your mind it contains 613 laws, but it is not you writing this book, it was Paul. We need to know what Paul was referring to, and it isn't what you are referring to. Or what I think. We are to search for what Paul meant with the words he used, and what God was telling Paul. That means we have to learn about what words meant to men living in the age that Paul lived in so we know the language as it was then. We have to know all the characteristics of God, for what Paul says is from God and God says nothing outside His character. That is why I spent three months in study, to learn these things.
Your post indicates that you have proof of what laws were included in the Law of Moses that Paul referred to. Would you please present that proof?

I spent months searching for that information and checked each answer I found carefully for accuracy. You seem to simply have it. I hope it isn't just something you assume. If you are correct, then there is scripture that disagrees with you. My final check on my findings was that all scripture agrees with all other scripture. The 613 laws include the ten commandments, the correct answer is very important.

I don't think you can correctly use the word legal to describe scripture, it is a secular term. I checked my concordance and that word is not in the bible.

It's not a matter of assumption, and Paul wasn't refering to some thing that had never been referred to before. "The law" consistently refers to the pentateuch/torah in both the OT and the NT. Paul didn't slice it up and distinguish a particular part of the law but used the distinctives of circumcision and diet as shorthand for the whole law.

Paul's language has to be understood with the Old Testament context in mind and the law was never separated into parts, it was one body meant to be followed as a whole. There is no Scripture that disagrees with what I am presenting on this, just Scripture you fail to understand.

And yes, the 613 laws include the 10 commandments. But the New Testament writers re-establish 9 of the 10 commandments in their writings as part of Christ's law that supercedes the old covenant law.

Galatians, Colossians, and Hebrews all state the old covenant has been put away as does Romans when properly understood. Then there is statements like the one Paul made in Timothy about the law " understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers,[a] liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound[b] doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted. "

So the question is are you one of the righteous that lives by faith, or are you lawless and disobedient needing a law to condemn you?

 

[Blik]

It's not a matter of assumption, and Paul wasn't refering to some thing that had never been referred to before. "The law" consistently refers to the pentateuch/torah in both the OT and the NT. Paul didn't slice it up and distinguish a particular part of the law but used the distinctives of circumcision and diet as shorthand for the whole law.

Paul's language has to be understood with the Old Testament context in mind and the law was never separated into parts, it was one body meant to be followed as a whole. There is no Scripture that disagrees with what I am presenting on this, just Scripture you fail to understand.

And yes, the 613 laws include the 10 commandments. But the New Testament writers re-establish 9 of the 10 commandments in their writings as part of Christ's law that supercedes the old covenant law.

Galatians, Colossians, and Hebrews all state the old covenant has been put away as does Romans when properly understood. Then there is statements like the one Paul made in Timothy about the law " understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers,[a] liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound[b] doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted. "

So the question is are you one of the righteous that lives by faith, or are you lawless and disobedient needing a law to condemn you?

I think you have completely misunderstood scripture about the law, I wish I could help but i think it is hopeless. But I would bet we agree that God gave us Christ who who gives us eternal life when we repent of our sins and give them to Him with absolute confidence in Him. That is most important, the rest will someday follow.

I am sure you study the word and when something comes clear it is such a wonderful feeling--it feels like you learn a bit more about the optional way to live both here and eternally.