How I became Post-Trib Rapture from a Pre-Trib denomination
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For today, in this administration of grace, yes.a whole paragraph but not one yes or no
So what is it shroom?
Sorry to cornfuse you.
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peterT
Guest
2 Thessalonians 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Thats odd because 2nd thess 2:1-3 clearly states that the rapture will not take place until after the anti christ is revealed???????????
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systemdown101
Guest
I don't normally make posts about spelling errors, as I make a number of them myself, but I think you mean "raise". "Raze" means to destroy, and I kept reading that as "What, God will destroy the prophets in the clouds?" So, watch out for those homophones!
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peterT
Guest
Thats not wright
The day of PENTECOST was Acts 2:
Acts 2:1And when the day of PENTECOST was fully come
The so-called birth of Christianity was Acts 11.
Acts 11 The disciples were called CHRISTIANS first in Antioch
But the spirit of the Lord and the kingdom of God was around long before the day of Pentecost. Matthew 12 28-the kingdom of God is come unto you.
The day of Pentecost. Now they had a comforter, now they had a teacher agene, now there witnessing powers have been magnified.
The disciples were already witnessing salvation through Jesus before the day of Pentecost; Jesus sent them out two by two. They were already preaching the gospel of Christ, they were already preaching salvation through Jesus, They were already heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils, changing the world, offering hope to man.
The day of Pentecost was a fulfilment of prophecy NOT the birth of Christianity
in Acts 11 The disciples were called CHRISTIANS first in Antioch.
But the spirit of the Lord, salvation through Jesus went back to when Jesus first said “believe on me and thou shalt be saved”.
Jesus's ministry was primarily to the Jews but he also ministered to non-Jews that had faith.
Matthew 15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, [thou] Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast [it] to dogs.27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great [is] thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
It wasn’t until Acts 10: that the Holy Ghost revealed and conformed to the disciples that Jesus’s ministry was for everyone.
The day of Pentecost in Acts 2 has nothing to do with the birth of Christianity or who the work of the Lord was aimed at.
Acts 9:15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
They were first called Christian in Acts 11. Christianity, with the new birth, started on the day of Pentecost.
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peterT
Guest
You have to say that, because all your doctrine literally hangs on when you think Christianity started.
Matthew 24:29-31 paralleled to Rev 6:12 is a nail in the coffin when learning about the second coming of Christ, and putting all of this false doctrine nonsense to rest. Its the lazy people that dont read their bible, who watch false preachers like John Hagee and Chuck Missler, and are led astray. =[
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LT
Guest
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Reformedjason
Guest
I always thought of a pre trib rapture then as I studied I thought possibly a post trib. I then realized that the elect that are still here are the remnant of Israel. Now I guess I am back at pre trib. Dispensationalism I guess. I will not argue about it as I am still not sure.
Hang in there Brother. I too have tried to teach to truth to various pastors and friends in the Evangelical arena, none are open to the truth about the "lie." They put their face in the water and drank and will be sent home. God prefers a small group of faithful to do battle with. Remember Gideon?
The remnant is left. 1 Thes 4:
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together...
Zone,
Very interesting topic.
We know Satan has stood before God (see Job) and Christ (see Mat 4) in the past. We know Satan and Michael had a tiff over the body of Moses. We know that angels have appeared to mortals plenty in the past (Lot, Mary, Daniel to name a few). We know Christ came in human form and stood before the wicked of this mortal world and the wicked were not consumed.
We also know God used to walk in the garden with Adam and Eve BEFORE they sinned. At this time there was no death, hence Adam and Eve were in incorruptible bodies. We are told by Paul in 1 Cor 15:
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed--
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Who is the "ALL?" Is it everyone or just believers? If it is everyone then there will be no mortals left. Could it be that after Christ returns everyone will be in spiritual bodies but some with souls that are saved and the rest with souls who have yet to be saved or damned?
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ChefManna
Guest
I guess that if you want to completely discount the parts of the scriptures that don't settle well with you, by all means enjoy your biblical buffet. BUT, pre-trib and post-trib is so blatantly obvious THROUGHOUT scripture, and it's sad you can't see it. In Revelation, john pretty much gives you a play by play that is impossible to ignore. He is caught up in the spirit right BEFORE the tribulation begins. He describes countless saints with their crowns. (The crown Paul speaks of while referring to the race?)
This is just so painfully obvious that this is the Bride of Christ. The followers who DIDNT stumble and become ensnared with the cares of this world. They are the salt of the earth.....keeping the yeast (evil) from rising. The salt MUST be removed Before the Tribulation can begin. The rest of the church.....the lukewarmers or Laodicians are neither hot nor cold. They are left to suffer chastisement through the shortened tribulation. John observes them arriving in Heaven AFTER the tribulation. They will serve as witnesses to the Jews and others left behind. We can even see a likeness of this in Genesis. Jesus was called the 2nd Adam. And, just as the Bride of Adam was taken from the body of Adam, the Bride of Christ will be taken from the body of Christ (the church). There is also a direct correlation in the parable of the virgins. They hear that the Bride Groom has arrived to receive His Bride but, their lamps are low on oil and therefore their lights are shining ever so dimly....so, they rush out to try and buy more oil...but, they are too late, and the Groom collects His Bride, and splits. Then there is 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'.....these dim burning lamps represent the lukewarm Laodicians, and they are left to suffer the tribulation. They are still saved but, got ensnared in the worries of this world. They are the ones we see at the end of the trib, arriving in Heaven as guests of the wedding. Also, notice they aren't wearing a crown, as are the pre-trib saints.
How can you not see this when it is scattered all over scripture, and then laid out in Revelation play by play.
I guess it doesn't really matter either way. There's a rapture, and we all make it to the wedding on time.
This is just so painfully obvious that this is the Bride of Christ. The followers who DIDNT stumble and become ensnared with the cares of this world. They are the salt of the earth.....keeping the yeast (evil) from rising. The salt MUST be removed Before the Tribulation can begin. The rest of the church.....the lukewarmers or Laodicians are neither hot nor cold. They are left to suffer chastisement through the shortened tribulation. John observes them arriving in Heaven AFTER the tribulation. They will serve as witnesses to the Jews and others left behind. We can even see a likeness of this in Genesis. Jesus was called the 2nd Adam. And, just as the Bride of Adam was taken from the body of Adam, the Bride of Christ will be taken from the body of Christ (the church). There is also a direct correlation in the parable of the virgins. They hear that the Bride Groom has arrived to receive His Bride but, their lamps are low on oil and therefore their lights are shining ever so dimly....so, they rush out to try and buy more oil...but, they are too late, and the Groom collects His Bride, and splits. Then there is 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'.....these dim burning lamps represent the lukewarm Laodicians, and they are left to suffer the tribulation. They are still saved but, got ensnared in the worries of this world. They are the ones we see at the end of the trib, arriving in Heaven as guests of the wedding. Also, notice they aren't wearing a crown, as are the pre-trib saints.
How can you not see this when it is scattered all over scripture, and then laid out in Revelation play by play.
I guess it doesn't really matter either way. There's a rapture, and we all make it to the wedding on time.
Can anyone tell me if I have my heart set on Jesus and desiring the heart of our Father that any of this pre, mid, post trib stuff matters?
I'm not being sarcastic either or anything, it's a serious question.
I'm not being sarcastic either or anything, it's a serious question.
There is no post trib rapture, You are getting the "Gathering of the elect Jews from earth and heaven, After the tribulation" mixed up with the pre-trib rapture.
Matt 24: 29-31 isn't talking about the rapture of the Church.
[1]When Jesus comes back in Matt 24: 30, No one goes to heaven, He comes to reign for 1.000 years.
Yet Jn 14: 3 says Jesus is coming again to take His people to heaven.
[2]Jesus comes for His pre-trib raptured Church Jn 14: 3. 1 Thess 4: 14-17.
And in Matt 24: 31, It's the Angels that gather the elect Jews.
Two different events.
You was right the first time, when you believed the pre-trib rapture.
Paul said the Church has to go before the man of sin can come.
If the devil couldn't handle ONE Jesus, How is he going to deal with millions of Christian just like Jesus??.
1 Jn 3: 2 says when Jesus comes, we will be just like Him.
The Church is holding the man of sin back, until we are taken to heaven, Then he can come.
There are to many scriptures that prove the pre- trib rapture, for it not to be true.
Why in the world to Christians want to tribulate when the Bible says we aren't appointed to wrath.