How many heretics have you converted?

[psychomom]

I understand where you are coming from, but you have to realize that if those who teach contrary to Scripture were so fastly removed without having their doctrine proved, then those who did hear what that person said might believe what he were permitted to say before he were to get banned. Allowing that person stay away, there is still hope for that person and people who holds such doctrine are given an opportunity to see if what they believe is scriptural or not. God bless.

Yep.
I do understand the frustration when the same wrong ideas are presented over and over by the same people...but they name the Name of Christ, so...patience with us little ones is always needed.

And Stephen63, if it's any consolation, I have personally been 'converted', as I said before, by the things discussed here. I have been shown where my thinking was wrong, and I have been shown (had it proved in scripture) where it is right.

God is SO BIG He will use ALL things for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose.
To conform us to the image of His Son.

RoboOp has done two great things here. The first is not making me any kind of administrator.
The second is making them men (as far as I know right now), and stable men, less likely to react in emotion. (thanks,guys!)

And I see that the 'ban hammer' was recently used on a few universalists.

 

[Ariel82]

cfultz3, I have your testimony and Abiding's of your personal conversion, and I am grateful and thankful for the change God has made in your lives. Really I am. But, what I am looking for are those in the forums or the chat rooms who have actually converted OTHER heretics while on CC.

To the "lady" who continues to insult me, there's a reason why I am not posting this in the testimony forum. That's why it's in the Bible Discussion Forum. Can you imagine all of these posts, many of them correcting and insulting written in the testimony forum? it's bad enough they're in here.

are your feathers ruffled?

I would say I was sorry but again you don't read what is posted and the intention was not to insult you but request that you grow up and get to the point of this thread.

I did not tell you to post this thread in the forum but for you yourself to read the stories of how God has helped others through this medium of CC chat.

yes i can see how much of the conversation would be pointless, if your point was that we should not argue and debate nonstop with heretics seeking to convert them. You should have just posted that, then many here would agree with you.

Instead you make false statements about things you do not bother to look deeper into and don't even bother to see how you could have clarified your own words in an attempt to communicate better with others.

I find your words rather condescending and insulting to people when you say in three pages.... blah blah... in four pages...blah blah...

but i find myself easily annoyed this afternoon. i'm going to try to find a thread that is actually about the BIBLE now....

By the way when I came to the site, I had a few doctrines I have since learn are man made doctrines and not in the Bible, and could not name one person but only the love and prayers of others who helped me come out of false doctrines. If you were to talk to me five years ago, I know without a doubt you would have labeled me a heretic, but God still called me His own even then.

 

[Stephen63]

are your feathers ruffled?

I would say I was sorry but again you don't read what is posted and the intention was not to insult you but request that you grow up and get to the point of this thread.

1) I did not tell you to post this thread in the forum but for you yourself to read the stories of how God has helped others through this medium of CC chat.

2) yes i can see how much of the conversation would be pointless, if your point was that we should not argue and debate nonstop with heretics seeking to convert them. You should have just posted that, then many here would agree with you.

3) Instead you make false statements about things you do not bother to look deeper into and don't even bother to see how you could have clarified your own words in an attempt to communicate better with others.

4) I find your words rather condescending and insulting to people when you say in three pages.... blah blah... in four pages...blah blah...

but i find myself easily annoyed this afternoon. i'm going to try to find a thread that is actually about the BIBLE now....

5) By the way when I came to the site, I had a few doctrines I have since learn are man made doctrines and not in the Bible, and could not name one person but only the love and prayers of others who helped me come out of false doctrines. If you were to talk to me five years ago, I know without a doubt you would have labeled me a heretic, but God still called me His own even then.

I must say, I admire your tenacity to stand for what you believe. I wish you didn't see my effort as only an opportunity to prove myself. It's not about me. I only did this because no one else was.
Please note:
1) I am aware of the wonderful efforts made on this site. That's why I do this.
2) If i just said it, I would have been ignored. You have to prove it to some people. Just like yourself.
3) To the best of my knowledge, I've made no false statements. No one had a single testimony of winning a hard-core heretic to the Lord
4) It's difficult to open eyes sometimes. For some, they must have absolute proof. I try to give them that. I don't claim to be good at it.
5) You were willing to accept the truth, regardless of how it would prove you wrong. I would not label you as such. A true heretic refuses, regardless, like the scribes & pharisees who wanted Jesus dead, even though they knew He was the Christ.

I don't believe I'm the best one suited for this task. I don't have all the answers. Maybe if someone else stood up for the truth, I wouldn't have to do this at all. At least I can say I tried.

 

[RickShafer]

God has used me to help bring people to Christ through this site.
I know because they've told me so.
So, don't be so quick to say arguing with false gospel doesn't work.
As for 'heretics', (which only God can judge); who's to say the seeds planted won't grow?
Does not God Himself say His word won't return unto Him void? - Isaiah 55:1

- B.T.W. - - - I was making progress with Disciple 653 and Angel of Mercy.

 

[Ariel82]

lol alright you made me smile because you're right

I'm stubborn as pitbull with a bone, but you were kind enough to label it tenacity.

so I'll try and be nicer.

I see the point you are trying to make and I give you props for standing up and trying to do it. though you tactics are kind of round about and abrasive. however sometimes what people need is a good scrubbing.

Others have tried and convey the same message you are with the heretics. If you read my previous responses, you will see that I agree that arguing with hard core heretics as you label them is pointless and unbibilical.

I disagree that if others are standing for this truth, that you would not have to. I believe God would still want you to speak up and stand up for what you believe in even if it is not always understood by others.

When I say something like you are being unclear, its not a judgmental thing, its a request for clarification. I admit sometimes I can phrase it more politely but there are days when I just feel like being blunt and not sugarcoat my words.

I must say, I admire your tenacity to stand for what you believe. I wish you didn't see my effort as only an opportunity to prove myself. It's not about me. I only did this because no one else was.
Please note:
1) I am aware of the wonderful efforts made on this site. That's why I do this.

that is good because there are some who do not recognize it and that annoys me.

[quote] 2) If i just said it, I would have been ignored. You have to prove it to some people. Just like yourself.[/quote] I'd have to disagree with this statement. you wouldn't have been ignored, and you don't have to prove anything, especially to me because I agree that we shouldn't spend countless hours undergoing useless arguments with people UNLESS God places it in our heart to speak words of truth in their lives or to show by our words and actions God's Truths through scripture.

3) To the best of my knowledge, I've made no false statements. No one had a single testimony of winning a hard-core heretic to the Lord

alright stick to that if you want. don't worth the time arguing over it.

4) It's difficult to open eyes sometimes. For some, they must have absolute proof. I try to give them that. I don't claim to be good at it.

proof doesn't open the eyes, only the grace of God can.

5) You were willing to accept the truth, regardless of how it would prove you wrong. I would not label you as such. A true heretic refuses, regardless, like the scribes & pharisees who wanted Jesus dead, even though they knew He was the Christ.

so you like to limit your definition but you see over the internet and even in real life who but God can see the heart of another?

[quote]
I don't believe I'm the best one suited for this task. I don't have all the answers. [/quote]

Its not who is best suited but who God has asked to do it.

Do you remember these scriptures?

Jeremiah 1
6 Then said I:
“Ah, Lord God!
Behold, I cannot speak, for I am a youth.”

7 But the Lord said to me:
“Do not say, ‘I am a youth,’
For you shall go to all to whom I send you,
And whatever I command you, you shall speak.
8 Do not be afraid of their faces,
For I am with you to deliver you,” says the Lord.


We are all to speak as oracles of God with our words proclaiming the Gospel of Christ to the world.


1 Peter 4:11
If anyone speaks, let him speak as the oracles of God. If anyone ministers, let him do it as with the ability which God supplies, that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belong the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Maybe if someone else stood up for the truth, I wouldn't have to do this at all. At least I can say I tried.

and you don't see how arrogant the above statements sound?
Is there really NO ONE else besides you standing up for the truth?
Do you REALLY have to do all this?
Is that only reason you would have to do it?
Is saying that you tried enough?

Just some thing to pray about I guess.

anyway God bless and keep you. I have to get some work done before dinner tonight.

 

[Stephen63]

God has used me to help bring people to Christ through this site.
I know because they've told me so.
So, don't be so quick to say arguing with false gospel doesn't work.
As for 'heretics', (which only God can judge); who's to say the seeds planted won't grow?
Does not God Himself say His word won't return unto Him void? - Isaiah 55:1

- B.T.W. - - - I was making progress with Disciple 653 and Angel of Mercy.

Titus 3:10 10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
NASB 10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning,
NLT 10 If people are causing divisions among you, give a first and second warning. After that, have nothing more to do with them.
NKJV 10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition,
NIV 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him.


It's not for me to say..... The Bible said it. Paul knew the consequences of letting them stay.

 

[Cobus]

How many blind people made another see? How many lame people made another walk, how many heretics saves another? Rick thinks needed to be perfect is heritic? Do you Rick? Wow! God is a heretic, who is going to save HIM? I hope i understood you wrong Rick and if I did, sorry.

Set in their ways is heretics.... I am SET IN ONE WAY AND THAT IS PERFECT..... Perfect as My heavenly Father is perfect... Mat 5:48. The WAY? May I SHOW you the WAY... just ASK and I will SHOW ANYONE WHO ASKS!

I am SET IN THE WAY!!!! Thank YOU Jesus!

 

[Stephen63]

I rest my case.

 

[psychomom]

Cobus, can you help me out?
I need you to explain, if you would please, what that means, using little words
in short sentences.
Like I was 5. 'Cause in many ways, I am.

How is one 'perfect'...what does that look like...who has accomplished it here (other than Jesus)
and if your thought life needs to be involved.
I super-don't understand how this is actually accomplished.
I get the Bible references, and the 'it's done through the Holy Spirit' part.
But...perfect...with the carnal nature still attached...that I can't grasp.

Because as far as I can tell from scripture, it's gotta be the righteousness of Jesus,
or it's worthless dross.

-elie

 

[Abiding]

So you giving up on me that quick Steven

 

[RickShafer]

Yes.
But Paul was an apostle.
That means he was taking the gospel to places it had not been before.
The gospel has been here for nearly two thousand years.
We are to contend for the faith.
Not wishing that any should perish.
The mistakes of AoM and the others are easily refuted with the whole council of God.
We have the scriptures to compare and contrast against each other.
In Paul's time they didn't.
So one could go on spreading their false gospel in the early church
willy-nilly if no one kicked them out.
Now everyone who visits this site has the scripture to compare the claims to.;
What I'm saying is the arguing shows the light of the truth......
so when souls read it they can remember what was said when they come upon heresy in their own lives......
and personally refute it.
Honestly, I'm not afraid of error.
It gives a chance to teach. - (Because every soul reading this site will have the ability to check all claims made for and against the Truth - the Word; and see if it is so.)
It is an exercise in teaching; not excommunicating.

 

[psychomom]

And we have no way of knowing just how God will work in illuminating a certain idea, or bringing light to a person (please, let it be me, too!).

I haven't been here long, but I've seen some amazing things,
wrought by the hand of God,
in the love of God,
done through the power of God. ♥

And y'all are pretty great-great, too!

 

[Abiding]

How many blind people made another see? How many lame people made another walk, how many heretics saves another? Rick thinks needed to be perfect is heritic? Do you Rick? Wow! God is a heretic, who is going to save HIM? I hope i understood you wrong Rick and if I did, sorry.

Set in their ways is heretics.... I am SET IN ONE WAY AND THAT IS PERFECT..... Perfect as My heavenly Father is perfect... Mat 5:48. The WAY? May I SHOW you the WAY... just ASK and I will SHOW ANYONE WHO ASKS!

I am SET IN THE WAY!!!! Thank YOU Jesus!

Jesus was crucified and resurrected during the Feast of Firstfruits...50 days later
was the feast of weeks(Pentecost) when the Holyspirit was given where the
Jews were required to make two loaves of bread using "fine flour"(?) and leaven.
Totally weird Cobus....why the leaven? Leaven is a big NO NO..what does this mean?

 

[Cobus]

Ellie, thank you that you ask. The best answer is in the WORD OF OUR FATHER....
If EVER I said something with LOVE this is what I would say.... That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; Eph 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Ellie, this is how perfect the Word of God is... When we just start our walk with God we are influenced by a lot of doctrine, but as we get to KNOW the TRUTH, the WAY and the LIFE, Jesus, we toss a lot of that doctrine out the window and we get SET IN OUR WAY! But ELLIE if I do ONe thing right now, I SPEAK THE TRUTH IN LOVE. I challenge ANY person to show where I did not do anything here on CC in love. EVERYTHING I type is with ALL my heart!

So here is the TRUTH.... Jesus... Here is the WAY... Jesus... Here is the LIFE .... Jesus... What of me is in this Ellie. If my WAY is Jesus, IF my TRUTH is Jesus, and if my LIFE is Jesus. Who us perfect? Where am I in that picture? Ellie if Jesus is in me, I AM NOT IN ME BUT IN HIM! I CANNOT SIN! I am not here to sin, I am in Jesus and there is no sin to do there!

Ellie. I really believe it is a PERSON swop that takes place. Jesus comes to LIVE, WALK and TALK in me, and I am hidden in God for THAT day!

Ellie, I had a very tough day at sea, I had nine lives in my hands today, and had to sail a yaht to safety in a vicious storm. I prayed today, and I saw how scared most of the people were.

Then I remembered the disciples in their LITTLE boat on the sea. And how Jesus calmed the sea, and I wondered if Jesus was on the boat with us today.... what would have happened? Now I know what I should do and I will..... That is why I have to keep this short. But this is what God's salvation is to me.... God prepares me to ENTER INTO HIM. And he cannot allow ANY SIN THERE, so He has to make me sinless. And soon as I am, appearently God puts the shekel in and HE TAKES ME TO HIM. But to keep this flesh alive HE HAS TO PUT A SPIRIT IN IT... guess what Spirit He puts in.... And guess what that Spirit does with this flesh...

I love you sis Ellie, not only do you have the same Name as my best woman friend in the world, but you two even has similar personalities, as far as I can see.

My prayer is this ELLIE... LORD LET THOU WILL BE DONE IN ME AS IT IS DONE IN HEAVEN... How is that will done in heaven sis? Perfectly!

 

[RickShafer]

Have you healed anyone Cobus?

 

[psychomom]

Thanks, Cobus.
I am sorry for the difficult day, and rejoice and praise God that you are all safe. ♥

I'm still not sure I understand, but the Lord has been showing me this last week...how genuine you are,
and how loving and kind. I asked him not just for wisdom, but for understanding.
I was reading in Proverbs and in chapter 4 it says the beginning of wisdom is, get wisdom , and with all your acquiring, get understanding.
I began to think about the difference, and wondered if wisdom sees, and understanding feels.

As I read on (and how did I never notice this before?) in chapter 8 is this: v.14 "Counsel is mine, and sound wisdom. I am understanding. Power is mine."
Now, that's the personification of wisdom speaking, but Who is that but our Lord?

Anyway, I appreciate you taking the time to answer. I will continue to ponder and pray.
And I love you, too.
-ellie

 

[Cobus]

Rick, I will share one miricle with you, please read it and I pray God will show you what He showed me. I am sorry this might be long, but I will keep it as short as possible.

One evening we (the church council of a Dutch Reformed Church) had a meeting to re-instate a minister that resighned under shady surcomstances. The first procedure was to get a letter of referance from the church he served last, that was us. I met the minister a few weeks before this meeting and how God saved his son from death. This man and family went through hell and some in the last months and their lives was in the biggest news-paper in the country. So this man was very greatful to God that God had taken him and his family through this dark time.

I just knew if this man has to preach to our church, it would be GODLY. But, the letter of recomendation was more a doomed to hell piece than recomandation for re-instatement. It was EVIL! What happened to forgive as I forgive others.... Anyway, I fought so hard I almost threw the tables over and started a fistfight, Despite all this the letter was voted and approved... then I asked the lord... SHOW ME THIS CHURCH'S HEART, I looked up into a ladies eyes and saw a cold, dark and wet rock. I was so saddened by this, that I cried uncontrolably, so hard they had to stop the meeting and break for tee.

After the meeting our church caretaker, came up to me and said.... My friend my wife needs to go for kidney stone operstion tomorrow, will you pray that it all goes well.... So I said... OOM (uncle) Bronkie, let us pray now for your wife. I cannot remember what I prayed, but when OOM went home, his wife was standing in the bedroom with ALL the kidney-stones in a glass medicine bottle. They fell out of her body, without going to the toilet. She was laying in the bed with a lot of pain, and all of a sudden the pain was gone, and she felt something in her nightgown. When she stood up the stones fall on the carpet.

That Sunday OOM told the whole church about the miricle. BUT!!!!!!

There were a few other's as well, but then one night I was shocked out of my wits.... My night of being SHAKEN AWAKE.... We were just finish with the Jesus Film in a very dangerous settlement, and I prayed for a two-year old boy that had a deformed hip, he did not get healed.

I went home FURIOUS with God. At my desk around midnight, I asked out loud... God are You for real? You better show me tonight or I give You up as a bad joke. I am NOT playing this game with You!!!! God lead me to the Bible and I opened it.... This is what was written that I should know..... 1 John 3:9... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
I said out loud..... No God this Bible is lying to me, we will always sin and fail, we cannot be perfect here, and why did you NOT heal the boy tonight? Why Yes and no and maybe.... what about the YES YES YES!!!!.... Again God had me open the Bible.... this came up..... Mat 7: 21 to 23.... Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Check out the Cobus in the PURPLE!!!!! That is me... When I get to heaven I would have said to Jesus...... LORD HAVE I NOT, IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS?...... And He will answer..... DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.......

Ok! I was destroyed..... God wins.... So I asked out loud again,.... WHAT SHOULD I DO???? Then this happened.... And some would question this VERY MUCH.... God said in a clear voice right behing me..... GENESIS 1:1 START!.... I did, four months later and it took me two verses to realize I DO NOT KNOW GOD AT ALL! But I am glad I saw myself as a sinner that has some power, and if I tell you who did the healing.... Let us leave that for now!

So Rick my friend, I will continue but check this out.... For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Let us just think if some of these wonders is to heal people, and Jesus said some healed in his name but HE NEVER knew them, and we know these false Christs will still be sinners..... Who gave them the power to heal? Think and study a bit in the IMATATOR and his things... Remember how Moses did wonders and the false ones as well....

I now know A LOT MORE about God, because of that night fifteen years ago, and I am a LOT less confused about His Truth, But only because, I think God wants to use me one day, but then.... I asked Him when will I preach for Him, and He said..... SORRY SON I WILL BE OCCUPYING THAT BODY FOR THAT PART.... Can you prove this statement with a Bible-verse? I can, with a few, but I would like to see if we think along the same lines....

God bless every person reading this, with YouR TRUTH, AMEN!

 

[cfultz3]

Stephen,

Maybe the third time will be the charm

will you answer that email?

 

[RickShafer]

I hear you Cobus.
But Moses' snake ate the other two.
And Satan wouldn't raise the dead. (he can't)
Nor would he heal those from certain death that fought against his kingdom.....
(remember, satan doesn't fight himself).
Satan wouldn't save the lives of souls who fought him......it just ain't a happening thing.
He can mimic certain miracles, but he can't control death.
Do you want to know why?
Because Jesus has the keys to hell and death.
Remember the miracle of Jannes and Jambres?(The two egyptian magicians?)
That was before Jesus bought back the right to death and hell.
Satan can only do so much......he doesn't control life and death......Only Jesus has those keys anymore.
Jesus is the only one who can raise the dead.
Jesus is the only one who would save the life of His servant from certain death!
Jesus has all power in heaven and earth and hell.
The gifts of the Holy Spirit are only for His beloved;..................beloved Cobus.

 

[Stephen63]

l
and you don't see how arrogant the above statements sound?
Is there really NO ONE else besides you standing up for the truth?
Do you REALLY have to do all this?
Is that only reason you would have to do it?
Is saying that you tried enough?

Just some thing to pray about I guess.

anyway God bless and keep you. I have to get some work done before dinner tonight.

I did make a vague statement there..... I meant standing up with this issue, not truth in general. I can see how that would be viewed as arrogant. I feel, however, that I stood alone on the issue since its posting.
No, I don't have to.... I could just walk away guilty.
No, it's not the only reason....
No. It's not enough.
Like you, I sometimes have difficulty saying what needs to be said under pressure.