How many People Think the Jews Could Be Wrong?

TheDivineWatermark · Nov 30, 2022

You clearly did not read this part of my post:

... which verses are showing that those TO WHOM Peter was addressing here were as yet UNCONVERTED 'men of Israel', i.e. not saved persons / not believers (and many of these rejected Him still, after the address, tho chpt 4:4a goes on to say that "Howbeit many of them which heard the word believed");

...that is, these Peter is speaking to in Acts 3:21 are unbelieving 'men of Israel' who had wanted Jesus killed coz they DID NOT BELIEVE He was their Messiah (due to their overlooking / bypassing His "Suffering Servant" aspects [3:13,26-Grk] in OT prophecies... the part about the: "have likewise foretold OF THESE DAYS" aspect--3:24,18 [that is, the "Suffering Servant" part that they overlooked / bypassed in their expectation (only) of the "reigning/conquering King" aspect... Thus themselves fulfilling that very thing [His "rejection / cut off" aspects included in the "Suffering Servant" days / aspect...(the "have likewise foretold OF THESE DAYS" part--the part of OT prophecies they ignored, basically...)]).

So, your post is not in any way convincing to the point. = )

cv5 · Nov 30, 2022

TheDivineWatermark said:

Absolutely correct.

Act 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Jocund · Nov 30, 2022

TheDivineWatermark said:

A man walks into a bar. In the bar he shouts out "ye bar patrons!"

Is the man referring to all bar patrons all across the world? Or just the ones in that bar where he is speaking?

The obvious context is that he is just addressing the patrons in the bar. And the same is true about "ye men of Israel" when addressing people in the temple.

And specifically, the message is meant for those that will hear. "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out..."

This phrase is conditional. But those that are wheat by nature will hear and do so while those that are tares by nature will not hear. The topic of this thread is about determinism. If we look at it from the perspective of people being chosen into salvation from the foundations of the world, the context is that the spoken efforts in Acts 3 are to appeal to the conscience of those that are wheat / chosen to be saved, even if tares (those destined not to be saved) might also be present in the room.

All Israel are wheat, but not all of Israel are wheat.

VCO · Nov 30, 2022

Heb 10:39 (ISV)
Now, we do not belong to those who turn back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

Do you know it is possible to have Faith, and Not be SAVED ?

Even the Demons have that much faith.

It is the Love relationship, that you can count on.

VCO · Apr 11, 2023

Time to revive this. I believe the Jews are Wrong about Number of things. The Biggest mistake they Made, is not RECOGNIZING their Messiah.

Second Biggest mistake they Made is thinking Mt. Moriah was a single Peak, when it was the Name of the WHOLE RIDGE, from North of the Dome of the Rock all the way South past the Pool of Siloam.

Third Biggest mistake they made is not recognizing the Mt. Zion is below the Al-Aqsa Mosque starting no more that 400 feet South, after they returned from Exile for over a thousand years, in 1212 AD.

Fourth biggest mistake they ever made, was CHOSING TO IGNORE FLAVIOUS JOSEPHUS AS A BONIFIED HISTORIAN, after he became a Christian, and took a Job of Historian, for the Roman X Legion.

The Fifth biggest mistake they Made was Forgetting or Ignoring that Everything including the Priests, in the Temple, had to have LIVING WATER, (Spring Water) and Cistern water COULD NOT BE USED. Warren's Shaft empties through it's exit hole, after the bottom two exits had been plugged, directly on the OPHEL. This Picture shows the ceiling in cave, Probably when you look up Warren's Shaft is obvious, that Sir Charles Warren discovered around 1867, he was also an Archaeologist. Up where you see the light, in bends towards the Northwest. It has sense been covered up and probably has a building on top of it.

.

The Sixth biggest error, is after a Jewish Archaeologist, had identified the following Picture as part of KING DAVID's Tabernacle. For suspicious circumstances or reasons unknown, higher ups, perhaps even the Sanhedrin decided cover this Video Up and removed from youtube. I suspect this may be the reason, how do you tell Jews they have been praying at the Wrong Wall, as the temple is 600 feet south of the Southern Wall.

The may be one of the most Significant ERRORS. It is inside the southeast corner of the so-called Temple Mount, on the GROUND FLOOR. The Muslims used to grant special permission, for men with a camera, to go down to the ground Floor with an escort, to what they called Solomon's Stables, mis-Named. I have proof that it was the Roman X Cavalry stables with 300 Horses. On one of the Pillars I found a Code and after a search on the internet, I found out what it meant. It is a hand carved X with a knife, most likely it stands for ROMAN X CAVALRY, and immediately below the X is a K stamped in with large Stencil, by the crew that Built the so-called Temple Mount. That code was a European Code and in my opinion it turned out to be Equestrian Units Code for: By Order of the Commander of ROMAN X CAVALRY, this horse stall is Reserved for the Emperor/King. It was agreed upon by most of the European Countries to use that same code of K would signify a reservation for an Emperor/King, so that no matter what language they spoke, they would know that stall was Reserved.

There are lots more errors, that I have uncovered, but this is enough for now.

CS1 · Apr 11, 2023

VCO said:

I will keep this short. It seems to me a LOT of Christians think the JEWS in 1212, could not be wrong about Where the TEMPLE MOUNT should be, and where the Mt. Zion has to be ? ? ? Keep in mind, the were exiled by the ROMANS for over 1000 years.

Here is a drawing that kind of says it all, that I stitched together a lot of it from different other drawings, and added what is obvious in errors due to lack of reading all Historical Documents from Josephus, and combined what with my corrections, in their Drawings, to make it as near to the Truth as I could get it. I did an over four years study on this subject, and know Scripture, and Josephus, and searching the Internet on the history of the ROMAN X Legion, to come up with this conclusion. The JEWS GOT THE TEMPLE MOUNT WRONG ON LOCATION. AND MT. ZION WAS A DIFFERENT MOUTAIN ALL TO GETTER. THE OPHEL IS MT. ZION.

View attachment 245176

See the Covered Walkway above, called a Cloister, on the left end is where Josephus was when he made this notation:

DID YOU NOTICE THAT ON THIS FACT SHEET FROM JOSEPHUS:

QUOTE:
But if we go the other way westward, it began at the same place; and extended through a place called Bethso, to the gate of the Essenes: and after that it went southward: having its bending above the fountain Siloam; where it also bends again towards the east at Solomon’s pool, and reaches as far as a certain place which they called Ophlas [what they called the OPHEL at that time], where it was joined to the eastern cloister of the temple. The second wall took its beginning from that gate which they called Gennath, which belonged to the first wall. It only encompassed the northern quarter of the city, and reached as far as the tower Antonia. - Josephus The Jewish War Book V chapter 4
:END QUOTE.

Josephus, was born 37 AD to Died at 100 AD. He did most of his writing shortly before 70 AD. I consider him to be about the only Eye-Witness we have. After Josephus became a Christian, the Jews called him an EXAGGERATOR.

I would not be surprised If the location of the Tabernacle, which many forget, was the location before the Temple was Built from David's reign unto Solomon

Komentaja · Apr 11, 2023

JohnDB said:

This is true but I think they didn't do it because it wasn't God's appointed time YET. Also why would Christian world go to war for it.

JohnDB · Apr 11, 2023

Komentaja said:

Because we, as Christians, believe the Bible and know beyond all shadow of a doubt that the land belongs to the Jews and not those who claim otherwise.

The Temple Mount is the number One holiest site for Jews and number 2 for Muslims (or so they claim).

The place is not that big at all.

But there are riot shields and weapons cached everywhere in and around the Temple Complex. The Dome of the Rock Church may be declared a Mosque but the ancient paintings inside clearly denote that its a Christian structure.

The Mount has seen several renovations. Herod (who tried to kill baby Jesus) put up the terracing walls to make a larger foundation for the Temple he paid to have built. However, the Jews cut tunnels in the fill dirt and rock. There are a lot of tunnels under the existing structures....some of which collapsed and caused massive destruction to the Mount Complex in the early 60's (I think....can't remember) which those assisting in the restoration discovered that the cedar timbers reserved by King David himself are still in use.

The whole place is seizmically active and completely unstable. The entire place is a hair's breath from falling apart. The exterior retaining wall has fallen in places and somewhat hastily been repaired.

Then there's the graveyard. At the gate facing East with the huge Golden gates there's a Muslim graveyard under them so that "if Jesus returns as He said he would" he would be made unclean by the graveyard and be unable to take the throne in the Temple.

Jews, Christians, and Muslims will all fight amongst themselves when they don't have each other to fight. And it's not exactly bloodless fighting either. The Tomb of the Holy Sepulcher has seen one of its bloodiest fights over the moving of a folding metal chair. The dumbest reason ever to have a fight. (It has a paper sign taped to it now saying, "Do not move chair" for the tourists.
But the tourists can also see the workman's ladder left behind from when renovations were stopped because of more fighting among Christians.

cv5 · Apr 11, 2023

VCO said:

Time to revive this. I believe the Jews are Wrong about Number of things. The Biggest mistake they Made, is not RECOGNIZING their Messiah.

Second Biggest mistake they Made is thinking Mt. Moriah was a single Peak, when it was the Name of the WHOLE RIDGE, from North of the Dome of the Rock all the way South past the Pool of Siloam.
View attachment 250281

Third Biggest mistake they made is not recognizing the Mt. Zion is below the Al-Aqsa Mosque starting no more that 400 feet South, after they returned from Exile for over a thousand years, in 1212 AD.
View attachment 250278

Fourth biggest mistake they ever made, was CHOSING TO IGNORE FLAVIOUS JOSEPHUS AS A BONIFIED HISTORIAN, after he became a Christian, and took a Job of Historian, for the Roman X Legion.

View attachment 250279

The Fifth biggest mistake they Made was Forgetting or Ignoring that Everything including the Priests, in the Temple, had to have LIVING WATER, (Spring Water) and Cistern water COULD NOT BE USED. Warren's Shaft empties through it's exit hole, after the bottom two exits had been plugged, directly on the OPHEL. This Picture shows the ceiling in cave, Probably when you look up Warren's Shaft is obvious, that Sir Charles Warren discovered around 1867, he was also an Archaeologist. Up where you see the light, in bends towards the Northwest. It has sense been covered up and probably has a building on top of it.
View attachment 250282 . View attachment 250283

The Sixth biggest error, is after a Jewish Archaeologist, had identified the following Picture as part of KING DAVID's Tabernacle. For suspicious circumstances or reasons unknown, higher ups, perhaps even the Sanhedrin decided cover this Video Up and removed from youtube. I suspect this may be the reason, how do you tell Jews they have been praying at the Wrong Wall, as the temple is 600 feet south of the Southern Wall.
View attachment 250284

The may be one of the most Significant ERRORS. It is inside the southeast corner of the so-called Temple Mount, on the GROUND FLOOR. The Muslims used to grant special permission, for men with a camera, to go down to the ground Floor with an escort, to what they called Solomon's Stables, mis-Named. I have proof that it was the Roman X Cavalry stables with 300 Horses. On one of the Pillars I found a Code and after a search on the internet, I found out what it meant. It is a hand carved X with a knife, most likely it stands for ROMAN X CAVALRY, and immediately below the X is a K stamped in with large Stencil, by the crew that Built the so-called Temple Mount. That code was a European Code and in my opinion it turned out to be Equestrian Units Code for: By Order of the Commander of ROMAN X CAVALRY, this horse stall is Reserved for the Emperor/King. It was agreed upon by most of the European Countries to use that same code of K would signify a reservation for an Emperor/King, so that no matter what language they spoke, they would know that stall was Reserved.

View attachment 250285

There are lots more errors, that I have uncovered, but this is enough for now.

Good job buddy. Keep it coming.....

VCO · Apr 11, 2023

VCO said:

Time to revive this. I believe the Jews are Wrong about Number of things. The Biggest mistake they Made, is not RECOGNIZING their Messiah.

Second Biggest mistake they Made is thinking Mt. Moriah was a single Peak, when it was the Name of the WHOLE RIDGE, from North of the Dome of the Rock all the way South past the Pool of Siloam.
View attachment 250281

Third Biggest mistake they made is not recognizing the Mt. Zion is below the Al-Aqsa Mosque starting no more that 400 feet South, after they returned from Exile for over a thousand years, in 1212 AD.
View attachment 250278

Fourth biggest mistake they ever made, was CHOSING TO IGNORE FLAVIOUS JOSEPHUS AS A BONIFIED HISTORIAN, after he became a Christian, and took a Job of Historian, for the Roman X Legion.

View attachment 250279

The Fifth biggest mistake they Made was Forgetting or Ignoring that Everything including the Priests, in the Temple, had to have LIVING WATER, (Spring Water) and Cistern water COULD NOT BE USED. Warren's Shaft empties through it's exit hole, after the bottom two exits had been plugged, directly on the OPHEL. This Picture shows the ceiling in cave, Probably when you look up Warren's Shaft is obvious, that Sir Charles Warren discovered around 1867, he was also an Archaeologist. Up where you see the light, in bends towards the Northwest. It has sense been covered up and probably has a building on top of it.
View attachment 250282 . View attachment 250283

The Sixth biggest error, is after a Jewish Archaeologist, had identified the following Picture as part of KING DAVID's Tabernacle. For suspicious circumstances or reasons unknown, higher ups, perhaps even the Sanhedrin decided cover this Video Up and removed from youtube. I suspect this may be the reason, how do you tell Jews they have been praying at the Wrong Wall, as the temple is 600 feet south of the Southern Wall.
View attachment 250284

The may be one of the most Significant ERRORS. It is inside the southeast corner of the so-called Temple Mount, on the GROUND FLOOR. The Muslims used to grant special permission, for men with a camera, to go down to the ground Floor with an escort, to what they called Solomon's Stables, mis-Named. I have proof that it was the Roman X Cavalry stables with 300 Horses. On one of the Pillars I found a Code and after a search on the internet, I found out what it meant. It is a hand carved X with a knife, most likely it stands for ROMAN X CAVALRY, and immediately below the X is a K stamped in with large Stencil, by the crew that Built the so-called Temple Mount. That code was a European Code and in my opinion it turned out to be Equestrian Units Code for: By Order of the Commander of ROMAN X CAVALRY, this horse stall is Reserved for the Emperor/King. It was agreed upon by most of the European Countries to use that same code of K would signify a reservation for an Emperor/King, so that no matter what language they spoke, they would know that stall was Reserved.

View attachment 250285

There are lots more errors, that I have uncovered, but this is enough for now.

I should add that I have read about TWO Emperor Visits to Jerusalem. One before 70 AD, to see what the Problem with the Zealots was all about, and one AFTER 70 AD, which was to plan the Building of Aelia Capitolina that he wanted to replace Jerusalem with.
So I know there were at least two times that the Emperor had his Horse tethered to the Ring sticking out of that ring mark second Yellow arrow form the right side of this picture.

Pilgrimshope · Apr 11, 2023

VCO said:

“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:2-4‬ ‭

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“but ye are come unto mount Zion and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,

and to an innumerable company of angels,

to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven,

and to God the Judge of all,

and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24

“to an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭

“for the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭

“From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:47‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

VCO · Apr 11, 2023

CS1 said:

And His Tabernacle was built ring Next door on the OPHEL. I wonder how many clues GOD left them, giving them the exact clue to were the THIRD TEMPLE BELONGS, on the OPHEL. And what is even more amazing is how many Christians chime right in with them, the Temple belongs on the Highest Hill. That is definitely PRIDE. And they don't even realize How many contradictions that THEORY causes.

cv5 · Apr 11, 2023

VCO said:

Prophetically, the millennial Temple will in fact be on the highest hill.
After God miraculously terraforms the entire region.

VCO · Apr 11, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

I see you are probably a KJV Only fan.
I urge you to also study the Original 1611 Preface. In there the translators admitted they took older versions in English and tried to Update the Language, and make it fit the English of that was spoken in 1611. They crossed check the Lattin and the Greek Septuagint. They had 5 different versions in ENGLISH that they wanted to update the Language to 1611 English. That is a Paraphrased Version, not a complete Literal Translation. Or they would have to go to the Original Languages.
I says: "revising that which hath bene laboured by others, . . ." {That is a Paraphrase, and not an actual Translation.}

Here is another statement by the original 1611 translation team:

Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, . . . but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . .

{That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages.}

Now with that one thing said, lets see how Many Translation and Versions of the BIBLE us the word MANSIONS.
Only 4 that I can find. KJV, ASV, NKJV, and YLT. What constitutes a mansion in 1611? ALL OF US LIVE IN MANSIONS who have running water indoors, and a flushing toilet.

Here is what modern versions translate that verse this way.

John 14:2 (HCSB)
2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if not, I would have told you. I am going away to prepare a place for you.

John 14:2 (ESV)
2 In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?

John 14:2 (NJB)
2 In my Father's house there are many places to live in; otherwise I would have told you. I am going now to prepare a place for you,

HealthAndHappiness · Apr 11, 2023

History of the King James Bible
From someone who knows the history.

CS1 · Apr 11, 2023

VCO said:

I see you are probably a KJV Only fan.
I urge you to also study the Original 1611 Preface. In there the translators admitted they took older versions in English and tried to Update the Language, and make it fit the English of that was spoken in 1611. They crossed check the Lattin and the Greek Septuagint. They had 5 different versions in ENGLISH that they wanted to update the Language to 1611 English. That is a Paraphrased Version, not a complete Literal Translation. Or they would have to go to the Original Languages.
I says: "revising that which hath bene laboured by others, . . ." {That is a Paraphrase, and not an actual Translation.}

Here is another statement by the original 1611 translation team:

Truly (good Christian Reader) wee never thought from the beginning, that we should neede to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one, . . . but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principall good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath bene our indeavour, that our marke. . . .

{That makes it a PARAPHRASE and not an actual Translation from the original languages.}

Now with that one thing said, lets see how Many Translation and Versions of the BIBLE us the word MANSIONS.
Only 4 that I can find. KJV, ASV, NKJV, and YLT. What constitutes a mansion in 1611? ALL OF US LIVE IN MANSIONS who have running water indoors, and a flushing toilet.

Here is what modern versions translate that verse this way.

John 14:2 (HCSB)
2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if not, I would have told you. I am going away to prepare a place for you.

John 14:2 (ESV)
2 In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?

John 14:2 (NJB)
2 In my Father's house there are many places to live in; otherwise I would have told you. I am going now to prepare a place for you,

The Greek Septuagint.

was of the Old Testament, not the New Testament

VCO · Apr 11, 2023

CS1 said:

I know that, but they were correcting the whole Bible, from very OLD ENGLISH Prior to 1611, they did not go to the original languages.
The TRANSLATIONS did just that, and I was Proving the KJV was Paraphrase, because they did not go to the original Languages. In particular whether it should be translated Mansions or Dwelling Places. I think the proper translation is Dwelling Places.

CS1 · Apr 11, 2023

VCO said:

I know that, but they were correcting the whole Bible, from very OLD ENGLISH Prior to 1611, they did not go to the original languages.
The TRANSLATIONS did just that, and I was Proving the KJV was Paraphrase, because they did not go to the original Languages. In particular whether it should be translated Mansions or Dwelling Places. I think the proper translation is Dwelling Places.

ok

VCO · Apr 11, 2023

cv5 said:

The Third Temple, has to be on the same local as the Second Temple which is the OPHEL.
The Fourth Temple, is the Temple Ezekiel talked about. It will be moved from the City of David, to another location.

I Think it will be build on the Chebar River, and others think it will be west of Jerusalem. Some People confuse the Chebar Canal and say they are the same thing. I believe Canals are Man made, and Rivers are make by GOD. Here is a map with both on it. Chebar Canal is South of Babylon. Chebar River is upstream from Babylon about 150 miles.

The fourth Millennial Temple will be built by Christ himself. It will be a little bit different:
The Jews think it will look like this, but not me, it looks way too Patriotic to be the Lord's Temple.

Bob-Carabbio · Apr 11, 2023

Locoponydirtman said:

BINGO!!!! The Jews only had to get ONE THING right, but they murdered Him in their ignorance. where the temple was, or where they're going to put the new one, couldn't be less important.

How many People Think the Jews Could Be Wrong?

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member