How many sins does it take for a christian to become aa sinner? John 9:31 Now we know that God hearth not sinners.

[massorite]

A couple of points massorite. Most of my life I lived as a traditional Christian in my dysfunctional family. None of us went to church but the matriarchs hung scriptures on the walls. About the only time we prayed together, or at all, was at holiday meals. I think God accepts those prayers of thanksgiving. Like you said God hears all prayers. My thoughts anyway.

I am like you, I would not invoke the name of Christ or ask God for anything unless I were living for Him. My second wife didn't view it like that. Trying to reconcile our different views of God, eventually led us both back into His arms.

Regarding the OP, it is mostly how we view ourselves. I said in an earlier post that God view things across time and space because He can. Scripture suggests that we speak and think just like Him. So, in God's viewpoint we are not sinners. Shouldn't that be our viewpoint also?

Yes you are right but not. In my opinion we are still sinners but we are blessed with the Holy Spirit which helps us to commit less and less sin as our walk as time goes on. At least that is how it has worked with me but there are times when I sin without checking myself before the sin was committed and that is when the Holy Spirit convicts me and that is when I have to forgiveness. In the book of Job he is sacrificing on behalf of his son because they might have committed sin in their hearts that they might not have realized. I could be wrong about that interpretation but that is what I got out of that scripture and I believe that there are times in my life that I might commit sin in my heart without knowing it so I ask for forgiveness for sins I might not have realized that I committed.
Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
You are right about how God views us. When God looks upon us He see's nothing but the shed blood of Christ. Therefore He see's our righteous because of the shed blood of Christ.
I don't look down on myself because I am a sinner because I know that I am a child of God who is always under construction.

 

[Brandnewday]

AAAAHHHH shucks I thought I did pretty good. I don't know much about semantics but what I do know is that I looked up the word "hear" to see if what you said was truly a contradiction or not because interpreting that scripture at face value with out doing any research would cause anybody to misinterpret that verse.
But even after I gave you a very good interpretation of what the verse was actually saying you still came up with a way to discredit the interpretation. In other words I put the truth in front of your face and you still couldn't see it. You want to be able to say the Word of God is corrupted. Ok have it your way.

I didn't say the word of God is corrupted. That's not anywhere in my posts to this particular verse.
Rather, what I have observed is that if someone believes God's word then the matter of what God tells you in that particular verse can't be overlooked.
God doesn't listen to or pay attention to sinners when they pray. To put it in modern English terms.
But he does listen to those who believe in him and do his will.

Therefore, the question that arises in my mind is to ask why God would then think a sinner has a chance of praying for forgiveness and accepting Christ? When God has already told that sinner in his own words that he does not listen to nor pay attention to the prayer of a sinner.
I think that verse is important and should be important for every Christian and sinner alike.
Especially when every TV preacher I have ever watched for a time ends their sermon with their version of the sinners prayer. Which isn't in the bible. Maybe that verse we're discussing is why.
Maybe, if we go further, that is the crux behind that other verse from Jesus. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. "
Maybe what that's saying, along with all those verses that tells us all things are predestined by God due to his zeal for his own glory, is that people are saved or damned by God's choice. Not their own. Maybe that is why some people don't feel saved even when they think they've gone through all the steps to accept Christ as their savior.

Because if they're that sinner God has predestined them to be, they're not saved. Because God doesn't pay attention or listen to them. Maybe the only people who are saved are the people God has chosen to save and that is why , recalling that last part of the verse we're talking about, they do his will and worship him. Because he saved them by his will, not because they prayed and asked to be saved. Maybe what grace is is the matter of fact of semantics. God has graced people he's chosen, predetermined, to worship him and do his will to be saved from being a sinner. And the rest of the human race aren't paid attention to. Not even when they pray. Because their fate is sealed by Godly predestination.

 

[massorite]

I didn't say the word of God is corrupted. That's not anywhere in my posts to this particular verse.
Rather, what I have observed is that if someone believes God's word then the matter of what God tells you in that particular verse can't be overlooked.
God doesn't listen to or pay attention to sinners when they pray. To put it in modern English terms.
But he does listen to those who believe in him and do his will.

Therefore, the question that arises in my mind is to ask why God would then think a sinner has a chance of praying for forgiveness and accepting Christ? When God has already told that sinner in his own words that he does not listen to nor pay attention to the prayer of a sinner.
I think that verse is important and should be important for every Christian and sinner alike.
Especially when every TV preacher I have ever watched for a time ends their sermon with their version of the sinners prayer. Which isn't in the bible. Maybe that verse we're discussing is why.
Maybe, if we go further, that is the crux behind that other verse from Jesus. "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. "
Maybe what that's saying, along with all those verses that tells us all things are predestined by God due to his zeal for his own glory, is that people are saved or damned by God's choice. Not their own. Maybe that is why some people don't feel saved even when they think they've gone through all the steps to accept Christ as their savior.

Because if they're that sinner God has predestined them to be, they're not saved. Because God doesn't pay attention or listen to them. Maybe the only people who are saved are the people God has chosen to save and that is why , recalling that last part of the verse we're talking about, they do his will and worship him. Because he saved them by his will, not because they prayed and asked to be saved. Maybe what grace is is the matter of fact of semantics. God has graced people he's chosen, predetermined, to worship him and do his will to be saved from being a sinner. And the rest of the human race aren't paid attention to. Not even when they pray. Because their fate is sealed by Godly predestination.

OOOOOPPPPSSS You just contradicted yourself.
Way too many contradictions to have it consistently make sense and lay claim to being the inspired word of a perfect God. I came to believe man made God in his image and likeness when he wrote a bible and gave a supreme being an anthropomorphic personality. A human personality.
This is why I've said, I can believe in God and not believe in the bible. In fact, I'd wonder if God believes in the bible or approves what is there and attributed to his spirit. Especially when it says of him, he doesn't listen to sinners.
You spoke those words in red. You said "Way too many contradictions to have it consistently make sense and lay claim to being the inspired word of a perfect God."
You said "This is why I've said, I can believe in God and not believe in the bible. In fact, I'd wonder if God believes in the bible or approves what is there and attributed to his spirit.
Sure looks like you said you think the word of God was so corrupted that you can't believe in the Bible/Word of God.
I think you want to believe that the word of God is corrupted and in saying that you can't believe in the bible is saying just that.
There is no point in trying to reason with you after saying that you can believe in God but not believing in the Bible.

 

[Adstar]

Sorry but you are wrong. Big time

Anyone who preaches perfectionism and is not perfect ( All human beings ) will be judged by the perfectioism doctrine they preach and they will be damned.. So please don't say sorry you are in huge danger of eternal damnation..

 

[Adstar]

What verse do you "we are sinners" use to support that?
You think the early church used that as their perception of how God looked at them.

Seems inverted to me.

If I wanted to miss the target,I world just point and shoot.
If my sim is to be like Jesus,and filled with the Holy Spirit,sin would repulse me.

If my aim is to be 50/50 and have my mental walk with a carnal attitude and conversation then I'm a sinner saved by grace.

What verse ???

I have never in my life met a sinless human being.. Are you claiming to be perfectly sinless in the flesh?? If so you are deluded and the truth is not in you..

 

[Brandnewday]

OOOOOPPPPSSS You just contradicted yourself.
Way too many contradictions to have it consistently make sense and lay claim to being the inspired word of a perfect God. I came to believe man made God in his image and likeness when he wrote a bible and gave a supreme being an anthropomorphic personality. A human personality.
This is why I've said, I can believe in God and not believe in the bible. In fact, I'd wonder if God believes in the bible or approves what is there and attributed to his spirit. Especially when it says of him, he doesn't listen to sinners.
You spoke those words in red. You said "Way too many contradictions to have it consistently make sense and lay claim to being the inspired word of a perfect God."
You said "This is why I've said, I can believe in God and not believe in the bible. In fact, I'd wonder if God believes in the bible or approves what is there and attributed to his spirit.
Sure looks like you said you think the word of God was so corrupted that you can't believe in the Bible/Word of God.
I think you want to believe that the word of God is corrupted and in saying that you can't believe in the bible is saying just that.
There is no point in trying to reason with you after saying that you can believe in God but not believing in the Bible.

No, I didn't contradict myself. I just didn't say what you want to claim I did. That God's word is corrupted. What you went to the trouble to excerpt from my post and put in red above isn't saying God's word is corrupted. I didn't say there that God's word is corrupted. Read it again.

 

[Brandnewday]

What verse ???

I have never in my life met a sinless human being.. Are you claiming to be perfectly sinless in the flesh?? If so you are deluded and the truth is not in you..

Here's a question. If a person repents of their sins and accepts Jesus as their savior and, as the bible says, God then forgives them their sins and never again remembers those sins, and then makes that person into a new creation, how is it that person is still a sinner who sins? When sins are what they are according to the bible, and would be still.
Because the only person who sins is a sinner. So if a redeemed Christian is still a sinner who sins what were they saved from? And what were they redeemed from? And how are they made into a new creation if they're still the old sinner who sins one?

 

[Adstar]

Here's a question. If a person repents of their sins and accepts Jesus as their savior and, as the bible says, God then forgives them their sins and never again remembers those sins, and then makes that person into a new creation, how is it that person is still a sinner who sins? When sins are what they are according to the bible, and would be still.
Because the only person who sins is a sinner. So if a redeemed Christian is still a sinner who sins what were they saved from? And what were they redeemed from? And how are they made into a new creation if they're still the old sinner who sins one?

You mean to tell me you do not even know what we are being saved from???

You believe we are being saved from being sinners???

We are being saved from being cast into the Eternal Lake of Fire which is the penalty for our transgressions against the Word of God... That's what we are being saved from..

The insane doctrine that it is all about stopping us from sinning is clearly false because the world is full of Christians who keep on sinning.. I am gobsmacked that the sinlessness in the flesh cult is so popular when it should be absolutely clear to every person who is caught up in this cult that they still sin....

 

[Brandnewday]

You mean to tell me you do not even know what we are being saved from???

You believe we are being saved from being sinners???

We are being saved from being cast into the Eternal Lake of Fire which is the penalty for our transgressions against the Word of God... That's what we are being saved from..

The insane doctrine that it is all about stopping us from sinning is clearly false because the world is full of Christians who keep on sinning.. I am gobsmacked that the sinlessness in the flesh cult is so popular when it should be absolutely clear to every person who is caught up in this cult that they still sin....

You mean you don't know that transgression against the will of God is sin? What do you think qualifies a person to be sent to the lake of fire?

 

[Adstar]

You mean you don't know that transgression against the will of God is sin?

I never made any such declaration nor did i even hint at such a thing..

What do you think qualifies a person to be sent to the lake of fire?

A person will be qualified to be cast into the eternal lake of fire if they are not justly forgiven their sins..


We do not enter into eternity with God because we are sinless.. We enter into eternity with God because all our sins a rightfully Atoned for.. This is basic Christianity 101..

Why does it seem that so many people know nothing of the Way of salvation???

 

[Brandnewday]

I never made any such declaration nor did i even hint at such a thing..

Yes, you did. " the penalty for our transgressions against the Word of God.. "
The word of God? The bible? God's rules pre-exist the bible. Unless you think the only time we knew not to sin was when the bible was first printed so as to give us those rules.

A person will be qualified to be cast into the eternal lake of fire if they are not justly forgiven their sins..


We do not enter into eternity with God because we are sinless.. We enter into eternity with God because all our sins a rightfully Atoned for.. This is basic Christianity 101..

Why does it seem that so many people know nothing of the Way of salvation???

Sin is transgression of the will of God. "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Everyone who commits sin practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. "

God's law is God's will for human conduct and behavior toward righteousness.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, you did. " the penalty for our transgressions against the Word of God.. "
The word of God? The bible? God's rules pre-exist the bible. Unless you think the only time we knew not to sin was when the bible was first printed so as to give us those rules.




Sin is transgression of the will of God. "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Everyone who commits sin practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. "

God's law is God's will for human conduct and behavior toward righteousness.

Um

Gods law is Gods requirement for entrance to heaven based on our own merit.

whoever breaks it loses the ability to earn ones right to be a child of God,

thats why whoever sins is a transgressors of the law. As James said, if we keep the whole law and stumble in one point, we are guilty.

using this as a guide, we see as scripture says there is non righteous, no not one, because ALL have sinned, and fall short of Gods glorious standard,

the standard and guide of righteous living is the law of love and the spirit, it is what jesus taught and showed by example, putting the needs of others above your own needs,

like paul said, the law comes and kills, because it exposes sin, seek after the things of the spirit and you will not fulfill lusts of self desire,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You mean you don't know that transgression against the will of God is sin? What do you think qualifies a person to be sent to the lake of fire?

Unbelief

he who believes is not condemned, he who does not believe is condemned already

jesus took the penalty of sin on the cross, as Paul said, he good what was contrary to us, and against us (the curse of the law) and took it out of the way having nailed it to the cross

 

[G2RBeliever]

John 1:12 But as MANY AS RECIEVE HIM,to THEM gave He POWER to become the sons of God,even to them that believe in His name.

Romans8:14 For as many as ARE LED BY THE SPIRIT of God,they are the sons of God.

Romans 8:17 And if children,THEN HEIRS: of God,and JOINT- HEIRS with Christ; IF SO be that we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.

 

[massorite]

No, I didn't contradict myself. I just didn't say what you want to claim I did. That God's word is corrupted. What you went to the trouble to excerpt from my post and put in red above isn't saying God's word is corrupted. I didn't say there that God's word is corrupted. Read it again.

No actually you did say the Word of God was corrupted without using the word "corrupted".
Way too many contradictions to have it consistently make sense and lay claim to being the inspired word of a perfect God.
Those words "Way too many contradictions" is as you claimed to be a "rework of the scripture". Claiming to be a believer who doesn't believe in the "inspired word of a perfect God." and who actually uses a misinterpretation to claim even one scripture is a contradiction is indeed an effort to doubt cast on the whole of the Word of God and is the inspired work of Satan. God is perfect and His inspired Word is perfect.
By the way I used the color of red because it is the color that represents and is the color of Satan.

 

[Lightskin]

That's not an example of holy spirit filled. That's something the holy spirit was to have evicted from the person.

Your hypocrisy is duly noted.

 

[Lightskin]

how is it that person is still a sinner who sins?

What part of your own words do you not understand? God not seeing your sins but rather the righteousness of Christ in you because you’re washed by the blood of Christ, does not mean you’re not a sinner when you actually sin.

 

[Lightskin]

You mean to tell me you do not even know what we are being saved from???

You believe we are being saved from being sinners???

We are being saved from being cast into the Eternal Lake of Fire which is the penalty for our transgressions against the Word of God... That's what we are being saved from..

The insane doctrine that it is all about stopping us from sinning is clearly false because the world is full of Christians who keep on sinning.. I am gobsmacked that the sinlessness in the flesh cult is so popular when it should be absolutely clear to every person who is caught up in this cult that they still sin....

This ^^^^^

 

[Lightskin]

I’m sorry, @Lightskin did “egg you on” disrespectfully and @Eleventhour is highly intelligent, but comes across condescending in her posts.

They are deep in theology

Three incorrect views in one statement. It would be comical if it wasn’t so sadly incorrect.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What part of your own words do you not understand? God not seeing your sins but rather the righteousness of Christ in you because you’re washed by the blood of Christ, does not mean you’re not a sinner when you actually sin.

the vision of the two cheribum on top of the mercy seat, and the blood of the lamb covering the things God has against mankind, so he could not see it, in effect. covering their sin. seems to be lost on too many people