How non believers may view Christian's.

[HealthAndHappiness]

I should also point out their view of haven is new Jerusalem. Two completely different concepts from today. Greek orthodox also have a different view of heaven. They believe heaven is where god is but not necessarily a place. Again haven and hell as we know it are unknowns.

The New Jerusalem is Heaven and it will depend to the Earth after Jesus conquers it and Satan's armies.

Are you Greek Orthodox?

 

[Nufan]

"he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. "
Revelation 14

For ever and ever is a poor translation. The greek word used is aion and I just gave you a definition for what aion means. It meand age or unspecified period of time.

 

[Nufan]

The New Jerusalem is Heaven and it will depend to the Earth after Jesus conquers it and Satan's armies.

Are you Greek Orthodox?

No Im not but if I had to choos I would choose Greek Orthidox because its closest to the original faith.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

The original Greek word aionios is an adjective of the noun aion which means 'age'. 'Aion Is where we get the word 'eon' or 'age'. 'Aionios should always be translated 'Age-abiding or 'age lasting' or 'of the ages'. It should NEVER have been translated 'eternal'!

The translators of the KJ Bible were the greatest organization of scholarship that have yet to be excelled by modern translators.
They could actually speak Greek fluently. Do you speak Greek fluently?

 

[Nufan]

The translators of the KJ Bible were the greatest organization of scholarship that have yet to be excelled by modern translators.
They could actually speak Greek fluently. Do you speak Greek fluently?

Im anti organisation's because they push dagma, hate and sow devision. They also teach bigoted views and there for its the work of the devil.

 

[Nufan]

The translators of the KJ Bible were the greatest organization of scholarship that have yet to be excelled by modern translators.
They could actually speak Greek fluently. Do you speak Greek fluently?

Theres enough resources now where I dont need to be a solar. Back then they didn't have the resources or information we have now.


Ancient Greek αἰών (aiṓn, “age, eternity”).

11 καὶ ὁ καπνὸς τοῦ βασανισμοῦ αὐτῶν εἰς αἰῶνας αἰώνων ἀναβαίνει, καὶ οὐκ ἔχουσιν ἀνάπαυσιν ἡμέρας καὶ νυκτός, οἱ προσκυνοῦντες τὸ θηρίον καὶ τὴν εἰκόνα αὐτοῦ, καὶ εἴ τις λαμβάνει τὸ χάραγμα τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ.

 

[Nufan]

The translators of the KJ Bible were the greatest organization of scholarship that have yet to be excelled by modern translators.
They could actually speak Greek fluently. Do you speak Greek fluently?

The word for forever is αἰῶνας which means ages

 

[Nufan]

The translators of the KJ Bible were the greatest organization of scholarship that have yet to be excelled by modern translators.
They could actually speak Greek fluently. Do you speak Greek fluently?

Ages as Epochs of Time Both Testaments speak of "ages" as undefined periods of history over which God rules ( Psalm 90:2 ; 1 Tim 1:17 ; Jude 25 ). As with much intertestamental literature, the Apocalypse of Weeks goes farther, in this case dividing history into ten epochs of varying lengths (1 Enoch 91:12-17; 93:1-10).

Christ has been revealed in the "last time." In the Greek, the words are "eschatos kairos," which translated literally means "the end of the age." The salvation we have now in Christ revealed is a salvation revealed in the last age. So, ages are measured, according to Scripture, with respect to God's plan of redemption.

The age before Christ's revealing is the first age, which then gave way to our current age called "the last times" or the Church age. Notice that Peter says that the prophets were serving us in that earlier age by revealing the truth concerning Christ and the age to come, things that angels long to look upon. Paul echoes this in his letter to the Colossians (Col 1:25-27):

 

[Nufan]

The translators of the KJ Bible were the greatest organization of scholarship that have yet to be excelled by modern translators.
They could actually speak Greek fluently. Do you speak Greek fluently?

eirgmos aidios (eternal imprisonment) and timorion adialeipton (endless torment)." These words were available and clearly in common use since the Pharisees taught the people their doctrines. (See J W Hansen - Universalism - Prevailing doctrine of the Christian Church during the first 500 years. pg36.)

So, clearly there were words to indicate eternal. It seems Strong's and others had other religious reasons for injecting meanings into words for which there is no literary basis.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Im anti organisation's because they push dagma, hate and sow devision. They also teach bigoted views and there for its the work of the devil.

They had enough divisions to act as checks and balances that kept the King James Bible from denominational dogmas.

So tell me one lone wolf scholar who is a modern genius of linguistics and language excelling Lancelot Andrews. He was just one of the scholars on the committee of 54. He spoke 15 languages and they spent 7 years taking an excellent Bible and getting the translation dialed in. They were Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic scholars. There are textual critics like James White and Mark Ward who put themselves out there as having a working knowledge exceeding those 54 men. Like the modern scholars these men couldn't lead someone to Christ if they walked off the plane in Greece.

 

[PennEd]

I'm not talking about other groups that are not believers. I'm talking about the groups that agree on the nicene creed and are trinitarian christians. Christians are bigots towards one another. Also, there's no mention in the Bible about there being an eternal damnation and punishment. The word used for eternal also means an age. That means for a period of time, and this wasn't a concept and understanding of the Jewish people at that time, so if Jesus is trying to communicate that punishment is eternal then I don't know why he didn't go into detail about explaining what he meant. What the jewish people at the time believe was that you would have an entire year to get right with god, to repent. The thing is is that the Jews didn't know what would happen to the soul if it doesn't repent, so they have 3 different theories, that either they would be lost in outer darkness and would eventually die, because the soul cannot live without the body, or that you would reincarnate and try again, or you would go to the trash heap and die. The trash heap is the one jeasus preached about. So the only concepts that they had according to Jesus at that time period was the place of the dead, the trash heap and new Jerusalem. So those who do get right with God they would be restored with a new body, a heavenly body. They would then inherit new Jerusalem, which is the restored garden of eden in which they will then dwell in and have eternal life. They will dwell in paradise and have communion and relationship with God They didn't even believe that you would go to heaven. There was also no concept of hell. The second death is in store for those who reject god. Hell and eternal punishment are all concepts and ideas that were imposed by the establishment which promote views and behavior rooted in fear and urgency, which are not fruits of God. Then you look at the Eastern orthodox. They don't believe in a eternal hell as a place of torment. Those who reject god its an unknown to them just as it is for the jews. They believe that Jesus will go to the place of the dead which is known as hell. Jesus decended into hell but its not a place of torment its a place of waiting and rest. Jesus will share the gospel so he can lead them out into salvation. Moses Elijah Aberham were all lead out of this place by Jesus. He set the captives free. Eastern orthodox also believe that God is present in all places, such as in the Old Testament. It says that even in hell God is there. Those who don't want a relationship with God and hate God, for them to be in God's presence and experience his love is a hell. There is no escaping God because he is everywhere and they will wander about in torment seeking rest and will find none.

Forgive me but my eyes can’t handle a wall of text.

 

[Nufan]

They had enough divisions to act as checks and balances that kept the King James Bible from denominational dogmas.

So tell me one lone wolf scholar who is a modern genius of linguistics and language excelling Lancelot Andrews. He was just one of the scholars on the committee of 54. He spoke 15 languages and they spent 7 years taking an excellent Bible and getting the translation dialed in. They were Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic scholars. There are textual critics like James White and Mark Ward who put themselves out there as having a working knowledge exceeding those 54 men. Like the modern scholars these men couldn't lead someone to Christ if they walked off the plane in Greece.

They all are hirelings that are sponsored by an institution and therefore they don't have enough sense to come up with your own conclusion based on actual evidence.That's what I provided you with, that should be enough. I don't wish to have an opinion. I've already made my position clear. And I don't have to prove or validate a thing. Because you can't tell me that there's not better words to use in the Greek language for what Christians are saying is being implied by Jesus and the apostles, so they choose to use a word that means age. Great.That's not a very clear way of communicating eternal. They should have used eirgmos aidios if they ment eternal and timorion adialeipton if they ment endless torment.

 

[Nufan]

Forgive me but my eyes can’t handle a wall of text.

Sorry.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

What is it that unifies the Christian faith?

The presence of the HOLY SPIRIT indwelling people who have been BORN AGAION BY FAITH in the SIN OFFERING made on Calvary by Jesus, that cleanses them from their SIN, These people are THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. NO VISIBLE DENOMINATION is the complete embodiment of Jesus' Church. Some are closer to the truth than others, and Born Again Christians can be found in most Denominational system in varying concentrations. Ephesians 4:13 suggests that eventually THERE WILL BE A MATURE VISIBLE CHURCH, however in 2024, it ain't even on the radar - yet.

 

[Nufan]

The presence of the HOLY SPIRIT indwelling people who have been BORN AGAION BY FAITH in the SIN OFFERING made on Calvary by Jesus, that cleanses them from their SIN, These people are THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH. NO VISIBLE DENOMINATION is the complete embodiment of Jesus' Church. Some are closer to the truth than others, and Born Again Christians can be found in most Denominational system in varying concentrations. Ephesians 4:13 suggests that eventually THERE WILL BE A MATURE VISIBLE CHURCH, however in 2024, it ain't even on the radar - yet.

Thank you sir. Good to see you again.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Im anti organisation's because they push dagma, hate and sow devision. They also teach bigoted views and there for its the work of the devil.

That's a mouthful and quite a judgment call. How many churches have you personally attended? In what manner do they push dogma? Push hate how? What bigoted views? You need to be more specific. That's an awful big brush you're tarring people with.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Im anti organisation's because they push dagma, hate and sow devision. They also teach bigoted views and there for its the work of the devil.

My Bible is given from the Holy Spirit.
He preserved His Word in the English language through the King James Bible for over 400 years.

31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Matthew 12

12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10

If I were you, I'd take the following message very seriously.
>How to be Saved from Hell<

 

[Nufan]

That's a mouthful and quite a judgment call. How many churches have you personally attended? In what manner do they push dogma? Push hate how? What bigoted views? You need to be more specific. That's an awful big brush you're tarring people with.

Docetism, Montanism, Adoptionism, Universalism, Valentinianism, Sabellianism, Gnosticism, Marcionism, Monarchianism, Modalism, Patripassianism, Psilanthropism, Sethianism, Basilideanism, Novatianism, Arianism, Donatism, Apollinarianism, Tritheism, Collyridianism, Binitarianism, Subordinationism, Anomoeanism, Antidicomarians, Nestorianism, Pelagianism, Eutychianism, Monophysitism, Miaphysitism, Three Chapters, Iconoclasm, Monothelitism, Paulicianism, Catharism, Stephanism, Socinianism, Protestantism, Jansenism, Quietism, Febronianism, Americanism,Feeneyism, Modernism

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[Nufan]

My Bible is given from the Holy Spirit.
He preserved His Word in the English language through the King James Bible for over 400 years.

31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Matthew 12

12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10

If I were you, I'd take the following message very seriously.
>How to be Saved from Hell<

This conversation is no longer fruitful. Im sorry we couldn't agree.

 

[Nufan]

My Bible is given from the Holy Spirit.
He preserved His Word in the English language through the King James Bible for over 400 years.

31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
Matthew 12

12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12

28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Matthew 10

If I were you, I'd take the following message very seriously.
>How to be Saved from Hell<

So the bible does say god can destroy the soul. Interesting...