How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

Absolutely · Oct 9, 2021

.....because they avoid the pretrib rapture verses, and will not SPECIFICALLY ENGAGE OUR VERSES

cv5 · Oct 9, 2021

ewq1938 said:

Just a thought here buddy......IMO you can neither prove NOR disprove something you do not understand or comprehend.......

DavidTree · Oct 9, 2021

Absolutely said:

As it is Written in the Word of God

Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters,
and whoever loves and practices a lie.

For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, [j]God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

DavidTree · Oct 9, 2021

Absolutely said:

every one of the errors of pre-trib have and always will be rebuked by Scripture

Scripture cannot lie

pre-trib rapture never came out of the Mouth of GOD

Our LORD only said this: Immediately after the tribulation...............I will gather My Elect = Matthew 24: 29-31

Revelation says this:
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

GRACE_ambassador · Oct 9, 2021

TMS said:

Huh? Precious friend, please compare the # 6's in Bible study below...

cv5 said:

Amen! NEVER go back, According To God's Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided! Amen?:
----------------------------
LORD JESUS, we beseech Thee Now For Thy Divine Understanding In
This Thy Most Important Doctrine For our Comfort And Consolation. Amen.
(1_Thessalonians_4:18 KJB!)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time Of JACOB’s Trouble (TOJT), Ending With The Second Coming, is found in:

God's Prophetic Program, Under LAW, gospel of the kingdom (“ages” past/future)
(Genesis-John; Hebrews-Revelation)

God’s “Earthly Kingdom” Purpose From “the foundation of the world” (Matthew_25:34)

God's Purpose Prophesied “since the world began” (Luke_1:68-70; Acts_3:21!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy_2:15 KJB!) From Things That DIFFER:

Great GRACE Departure!

Pre-TOJT Resurrection/Departure, Ending God’s Age Of GRACE, Is Found In:

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; (UNprophesied!}
God's Revelation Of The Mystery, Under The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God!
{ Current = “But NOW!” } (Romans through Philemon!)

God’s “Heavenly Hidden” Purpose Before “the foundation of the world”
(Ephesians_1:4; 2_Timothy_1:9!)

God's Heavenly Purpose Kept Secret “since the world began”
(Romans_16:25; Ephesians_1:4-11, 3:5-9!)

-------------------

The Second Coming, According to Prophecy:

(1) Immediately After tribulation/4 signs, CHRIST, In His
Prophesied Second Advent, As KING Of kings, And LORD Of lords,
Is Coming From Heaven! (Revelation_19:16, 11 KJB!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming On a white horse, With Crowns On
His Head, And A Sword In His Mouth! (Revelation_19:12-15)

(3) CHRIST Is Coming With, (which Were In Heaven!),
His armies on white horses! (Revelation_19:12-15)

(4) CHRIST Is Coming To earth “With All Of His holy angels,”
In Order To Judge/Make war/Smite And Rule the nations…
(Matthew_24:29, 25:31; Revelation_19:11, 15)

(5a) Angels “gather the tares First, And they are taken Out of the kingdom”
to be cast into the furnace of fire! (Matthew_24:30, 13:30, 40-43!)

(5b) Angels “gather the elect”... (Matthew_24:31; Mark_13:27!)

(6)...for the “judgment of the Earthly Nations” By The Son of man, The King!
(Matthew_25:31-46!)

(7) Those Judged as righteous then enter the kingdom! And the UNrighteous
then Depart into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels!
(Matthew_25:34-46!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy_2:15 KJB!) From Things That DIFFER!:

The Great GRACE Departure, According to The Heavenly Mystery!:

(1) Immediately After GRACE Has ENDED/ZERO signs!:
CHRIST, As Head Of His Body, The Church, Will Descend From
Heaven! (Ephesians_1:19-23; Colossians_1:18; 1_Thessalonians_4:16!)

(2) CHRIST Is Coming With A Shout, With the voice of an archangel,
And With The Trump of God! (1_Thessalonians_4:16!)

3) God (JESUS CHRIST) Will Bring With Him {those who Were With
Him In Heaven}, part Of His Own, those who are “asleep In JESUS!”
(2_Corinthians_5:8; Philippians_1:21-23; 1_Thessalonians_4:13 KJB!)

(4) CHRIST Descends With One archangel, Will resurrect those
asleep first, and Then, we “which are alive and remain,” {which
Is A Mystery!}, will be changed/all “incorruptible, And Caught Up”
together to meet The LORD in the air, in the “twinkling of an eye!”
(1_Thessalonians_4:16-17; 1_Corinthians_15:52-53!)

(5) CHRIST “Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
(2_Thessalonians_2:1-3; 1_Corinthians_15:49; 2_Corinthians_12:2, 5:1, 2;
Ephesians_1:3, 20, 2:6; Philippians_3:20; 2_Timothy_4:18!)

6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
By The Head Himself!... (Romans_2:6, 16, 14:10-12;
1_Corinthians_3:8-15, 4:5, 6:20; 2_Corinthians_5:10;
Ephesians_6:8; Colossians_3:24-25!)

(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians_5:27!)

(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live Forever And Ever! Amen!
(1_Thessalonians_3:13; Colossians_1:5, 22;
1_Corinthians_6:3; 2_Corinthians_5:1-2 KJB!)
---------------------------------------------------------------
LORD JESUS, thank You so much for Your Gift Of Eternal
Salvation, And for Your Blessed Hope of Glorification When
You Come To Finally Gather us Home! Amen.

DavidTree · Oct 9, 2021

cv5 said:

The whole Counsel of God is the WORD.

You refuse to repent of "adding to and taking away" from God's words = HE will prove you as HE promised.

Do not add to God's words less He prove you to be a liar - Proverbs 30: 5-6

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me,
“Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ” Revelation 14: 12-13

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Revelation 20: 4-6

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

After that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in

pre-trib rapture is a lie from the mouth of liars

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 9, 2021

DavidTree said:

"Who" do you believe this (the bold ^ ) is referring to... and "when" is it referring to (when it says, "UNTIL")... and "what" is it referring to?

rayzor · Oct 9, 2021

DavidTree said:

The whole Counsel of God is the WORD.

You refuse to repent of "adding to and taking away" from God's words = HE will prove you as HE promised.

Do not add to God's words less He prove you to be a liar - Proverbs 30: 5-6

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me,
“Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ” Revelation 14: 12-13

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. Revelation 20: 4-6

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

After that we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in

pre-trib rapture is a lie from the mouth of liars

DavidTree I would not try to change your mind, just feed your pride.We know knowledge puffs up.We know theirs only one that gives understanding and we know that some bonds can only be broke by pray and fasting.One more We,,,,We also knows that the right kind of tribs are needed.

walknlight · Oct 9, 2021

This verse also:
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2Th 2:11-12 AV)

Why would this be necessary IF "harpazo" is not true?

God Bless

rayzor · Oct 9, 2021

walknlight said:

This verse also:
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2Th 2:11-12 AV)

Why would this be necessary IF "harpazo" is not true?

God Bless

Or the great thee-lipsis

Laura798 · Oct 9, 2021

Aaron56 said:

No one taught a pre-trib rapture until John Darby, and Anglican preacher, in the mid 1800s. So the teaching is relatively new. Now, being new does not necessarily mean a teaching is defunct: while God never changes, He reveals knowledge and understanding in a progressive manner. Things that we have not contemplated before, suddenly come alive to us in the scriptures. So, while the ideas are new to us, they were always established in the mind of God.

But the manner is which things are "revealed" should be examined. So let's look at the manner in which the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture came to be a Baptist staple.

Dwight Young, professor emeritus at Brandeis University of Near Eastern and Judaic Studies, personally corresponded with a friend of mine several years ago. My friend was a young lawyer ( as an aside, had George Bush Senior been elected for a second term, there is a good possibility that my friend would have been chosen as a state supreme court judge.) Dwight was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary at the same time Hal Lindsey studied there, so this is more than 50 years ago or so. They were graduate students.

Dwight said the professors were discussing Darbyism, and whether or not it was a valid theology. This graduate student, Hal Lindsey, wrote a master’s thesis on the subject of this form of dispensationalism and the rapture. He later turned that thesis into a book called The Late Great Planet Earth. Now some of you may not know about this book, but it was a runaway bestseller. It made a lot of money. According to Dwight, that is where the Baptists made the switch. They saw that there was a market for this doctrine, and they ran with it. Dwight later moved up to and was a professor of biblical studies, biblical languages at Brandeis University, from which he retired, and he was in a state of retirement when my friend met him. So, 50 years from the writing of a master's thesis, the teaching is so entrenched in the Baptist circles you would think it was the gospel.

Historically, nobody ever thought of this doctrine before Darby. But once he popularized it in the context of dispensationalism, meaning things wrap up within blocks of time, people began to embrace it because they did not have to trust the Holy Spirit. If you are going to have any measure of understanding of prophetic Scripture, the end from the beginning and where we are at this point in time, you are going to have to walk in the Spirit. He is the One who wrote the Book; He is the One who is perfectly capable of interpreting it. And the folly of logic and reason and man-made constructs, such as dispensationalism, will lead you to increasing folly, such as the rapture.

God knows the end from the beginning, and the greatest moment of the Body of Christ is in the midst of the darkness in Revelation. That darkness has no potential to blunt our display of the glory of God, the radiance of God’s glory, or to represent Him exactly. It has no ability to influence that at all. This is the time for the glory of what God has been doing, when He established the heavens and the earth for the purpose of establishing a corporate man in creation so that He might be seen in creation as who He is. He is on a path wherein not only will He show who He is in all of His glory through the corporate body, but He will bring the enemy to judgment as well.

Grace and Peace,

Aaron56

Hi Aaron, thanks for this post. Additionally, Christians who are open to studying this more thoroughly will be shocked at all the aspects of the Pre-Trib doctrine. Though I don't agree with everything Hank Hanegraff has to say, he lays out his arguments both thoroughly and intelligently in this short video:

Laura798 · Oct 9, 2021

Aaron56 said:

No one taught a pre-trib rapture until John Darby, and Anglican preacher, in the mid 1800s. So the teaching is relatively new. Now, being new does not necessarily mean a teaching is defunct: while God never changes, He reveals knowledge and understanding in a progressive manner. Things that we have not contemplated before, suddenly come alive to us in the scriptures. So, while the ideas are new to us, they were always established in the mind of God.

But the manner is which things are "revealed" should be examined. So let's look at the manner in which the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture came to be a Baptist staple.

Dwight Young, professor emeritus at Brandeis University of Near Eastern and Judaic Studies, personally corresponded with a friend of mine several years ago. My friend was a young lawyer ( as an aside, had George Bush Senior been elected for a second term, there is a good possibility that my friend would have been chosen as a state supreme court judge.) Dwight was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary at the same time Hal Lindsey studied there, so this is more than 50 years ago or so. They were graduate students.

Dwight said the professors were discussing Darbyism, and whether or not it was a valid theology. This graduate student, Hal Lindsey, wrote a master’s thesis on the subject of this form of dispensationalism and the rapture. He later turned that thesis into a book called The Late Great Planet Earth. Now some of you may not know about this book, but it was a runaway bestseller. It made a lot of money. According to Dwight, that is where the Baptists made the switch. They saw that there was a market for this doctrine, and they ran with it. Dwight later moved up to and was a professor of biblical studies, biblical languages at Brandeis University, from which he retired, and he was in a state of retirement when my friend met him. So, 50 years from the writing of a master's thesis, the teaching is so entrenched in the Baptist circles you would think it was the gospel.

Historically, nobody ever thought of this doctrine before Darby. But once he popularized it in the context of dispensationalism, meaning things wrap up within blocks of time, people began to embrace it because they did not have to trust the Holy Spirit. If you are going to have any measure of understanding of prophetic Scripture, the end from the beginning and where we are at this point in time, you are going to have to walk in the Spirit. He is the One who wrote the Book; He is the One who is perfectly capable of interpreting it. And the folly of logic and reason and man-made constructs, such as dispensationalism, will lead you to increasing folly, such as the rapture.

God knows the end from the beginning, and the greatest moment of the Body of Christ is in the midst of the darkness in Revelation. That darkness has no potential to blunt our display of the glory of God, the radiance of God’s glory, or to represent Him exactly. It has no ability to influence that at all. This is the time for the glory of what God has been doing, when He established the heavens and the earth for the purpose of establishing a corporate man in creation so that He might be seen in creation as who He is. He is on a path wherein not only will He show who He is in all of His glory through the corporate body, but He will bring the enemy to judgment as well.

Grace and Peace,

Aaron56

Here's another good article: https://www.logosapostolic.org/bible_study/RP355-5JesusComesWithSaints.htm Note too, that he says Saints also translate to Holy Ones or Angels--I looked it up in Hebrew and that is the translation for the word Saint in the context of Christ coming back with Saints. In other verses it says 'Holy Angels'

ewq1938 · Oct 9, 2021

peldom10 said:

The scriptures I posted did prove pretrib wrong and posttrib right.

ewq1938 · Oct 9, 2021

cv5 said:

I'm not the confused one. You are. I can understand the bible. It comes easily and naturally to me and I know what the bible teaches and does not teach. Pretrib is pure confusion and blindness. It is not in the bible at all.

ewq1938 · Oct 9, 2021

cv5 said:

I'm the one between us that understands and comprehends. You are describing yourself in the above quote, "buddy".

cv5 · Oct 9, 2021

ewq1938 said:

You either get it or don't get it buddy. That is the devastating truth. IMO.....the people that don't get it have not (yet?) accrued the necessary Biblical "critical mass" of knowledge.

So there might be hope for you yet.....

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 9, 2021

@Laura798 , (re: your Post #1671 and H. Hanegraaff's [Preterist] video)

I own at least two of Hanegraaff's books (that I can think of readily... and maybe own more), but I recall when reading those I was able to detect his various mis-steps and flaws, in his presentation (per his books), in his endeavor to prove his "Preterist" viewpoint.

ewq1938 · Oct 9, 2021

cv5 said:

Again, it's not me who isn't getting anything. It's you. I understand the rapture in and out quite well which how I can spot the many errors you and others make. I'm not alone in that also.

TheDivineWatermark · Oct 9, 2021

ewq1938 said:

What do you find that is so great about H. Hanegraaff's video (Post #1671)??... who is a proponent of "Preterism"... is that your stance also??

ewq1938 · Oct 9, 2021

TheDivineWatermark said:

And here we have what's known as a red herring fallacy which is to bring up a topic not being discussed to avoid discussing what is being discussed.

Laura brought up Hanegraaff's view on Pretrib, not his views on Preterism.

How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

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