How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[Absolutely]

Lets test fit postrib rapture into 2 thes 2, shall we?
Lets use their exact belief.

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,( THE SECOND COMING ON HORSES AND THE RAPTURE SIMULTANEOUSLY....ACCORDING TO POSTRIBS)

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,

(APOS'TASY, noun [Gr. a defection, to depart.]1. An abandonment of what one has professed; a total desertion, or departure from one's faith or religion.2. The desertion from a party to which one has adhered.

....and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition),and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


Now what we have Is the AC revealed...no tribulation yet but Jesus is coming on all his white horses with his Saints before the tribulation has even started. That is the most ridiculous bunch of mess anybody could think up.

 

[oyster67]

Hey, i use to watch 'Kung-Fu' with David Carridine

You are David Carridine, bro.

 

[DavidTree]

Lets test fit postrib rapture into 2 thes 2, shall we?
Lets use their exact belief.

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,( THE SECOND COMING ON HORSES AND THE RAPTURE SIMULTANEOUSLY....ACCORDING TO POSTRIBS)

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,

(APOS'TASY, noun [Gr. a defection, to depart.]1. An abandonment of what one has professed; a total desertion, or departure from one's faith or religion.2. The desertion from a party to which one has adhered.

....and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition),and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


Now what we have Is the AC revealed...no tribulation yet but Jesus is coming on all his white horses with his Saints before the tribulation has even started. That is the most ridiculous bunch of mess anybody could think up.

It says: 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day(verse 1) shall not come, except
there come a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition),and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

OK - the BEST way to test your understanding of Scripture is to submit to: Matthew 18:16 = Witnesses to the TRUTH"

First Witness - the LORD Jesus Christ - Matt ch24 = A.) falling away B.) put to death c.) "Immediately after the Tribulation"

Second Witness - Apostle Paul - 1 Thess & 2 Thess = A.) Falling away B.) man of sin then C.) Resurrection First at His Coming.

Third Witness Apostle John - 1 John ch 2 & ch3 A.) Antichrist is coming B.) falling away first C.) Second Coming of Christ/Resurrection

Forth Witness Prophet Daniel - chapter 7 A.) Antichrist comes first B.) Saints persecuted to death C.) Return of the KING

The Scripture has even more Witnesses

 

[Aaron56]

John Darby was one of the Plymouth Brethren. Not Anglican.

Come on, man! This can easily be Googled. He was ordained in the Church of Ireland which is an Anglican Church.

https://bfy.tw/S8qX

 

[iTheophilus]

Lets test fit postrib rapture into 2 thes 2, shall we?
Lets use their exact belief.

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,( THE SECOND COMING ON HORSES AND THE RAPTURE SIMULTANEOUSLY....ACCORDING TO POSTRIBS)

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,

(APOS'TASY, noun [Gr. a defection, to depart.]1. An abandonment of what one has professed; a total desertion, or departure from one's faith or religion.2. The desertion from a party to which one has adhered.

....and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition),and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


Now what we have Is the AC revealed...no tribulation yet but Jesus is coming on all his white horses with his Saints before the tribulation has even started. That is the most ridiculous bunch of mess anybody could think up.

What verse do you see Jesus coming? I don’t see one.

 

[DavidTree]

You are David Carridine, bro.

i actually had a more similiar(very close) physical build to Bruce Lee and could do a good impersonation.

 

[oyster67]

OK - you got me - i'm busted (lol)

Can you please post the Big 8 - Thank You

The Pre-Trib Rap...

! Thessalonians
4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation shows the Church in Heaven before the Second Coming...

19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

 

[lamad]

We take things literally because there is every reason to and no reason not to. Once we start spiritualizing and figuratizing everything, all we are left with is Swiss cheese that one can spin in any direction one wants. Absolute Truth is lost forever. This is the agenda of the Evil One. I like to be agreeable with people, but I must tell the truth.

I would make one small correction: there are most certainly verses in Revelation that make very good sense taken literally, but they others that are clearly symbolic, such as the Beast described as having 7 heads.

I have an axiom on Revelation:

ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology to fit some hypothesis, is immediately suspect and will be proven wrong.

An example: someone once wrote on a forum: "the 7th trumpet is sounded at the 6th seal." That theory will be proven wrong.

 

[DavidTree]

The Pre-Trib Rap...

! Thessalonians
4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
4:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Revelation shows the Church in Heaven before the Second Coming...

19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

YES Brother, i have always said that the Resurrection/rapture takes place sometime in Revelation chapters 19-20.

Chapters 19 and 20 are 'One Event' being given to us from different points/apsects/blessings of that Event.

ALWAYS Keep this at the Forefront: Matthew 24:36
“However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.

Therefore Revelation chapters 19 & 20 show us IT will happen, just as we know, but not the exact moment.

Stay Tuned in to Frequency WWDK

 

[oyster67]

i actually had a more similiar(very close) physical build to Bruce Lee and could do a good impersonation.

Obviously you still can... You 'habbin backflippin' all ober da place.

 

[lamad]

Well, first off (and this was covered in earlier posts in this thread--I think it was this thread), there is no scripture with the words "SECOND COMING" (...so... why would those words, expressed that way [the label man puts on things to aid in our discussion], matter in this issue? It seems that all that should matter is what "coming" meant to them [in any given CONTEXT], right?)

But when Jesus' response included the wording of (Matt24:30) "coming in/upon THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN with power and great glory," do you think they perceived Him to be meaning "coming from Motley, Minnesota"?? (i.e. "coming" from somewhere upon the earth--since they hadn't realized He'd be IN HEAVEN by that point)?? I think not.



[in John 13:33,36 Jesus had already said to them, "where I am going ye cannot come" (just as He'd said "to the Jews" in 8:21) ... verse 36 adds (specifically to Peter) "ye cannot follow Me NOW"; sure it took some time for them to grasp what He meant... I'm just not seeing how this impacts what it is my original point had been As I see it, not at all... ]

There ALMOST is such a scripture: Heb. 9:28 tells us He will APPEAR the second time. For Him to appear, He must COME. Therefore I think the timing of this appearing is for His coming as shown in 1 Thes. 4.

 

[DavidTree]

Obviously you still can... You 'habbin backflippin' all ober da place.

My Bruce Lee physique was ages 14 - 18 then i really started working out and was dubbed 'Terminator/little Arnold' at age 21

 

[oyster67]

YES Brother, i have always said that the Resurrection/rapture takes place sometime in Revelation chapters 19-20.

Chapters 19 and 20 are 'One Event' being given to us from different points/apsects/blessings of that Event.

ALWAYS Keep this at the Forefront: Matthew 24:36
“However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows.

Therefore Revelation chapters 19 & 20 show us IT will happen, just as we know, but not the exact moment.

Stay Tuned in to Frequency WWDK

There you go, trying to foggy-up the mirror again. Things are really quite clear until someone goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of their way to try and fog things. Go ahead then. I'm not a spanker like momma @Laura798 .

 

[lamad]

...oops, I should have added one more "bullet point" (of clarification to an earlier post, and will perhaps aid you [ @iamsoandso ] in grasping my explanation):

-- "the END [SINGULAR] of the AGE [SINGULAR]" (that they were standing in and speaking out from [and ASKING Him regarding, in Matt24:3], and which will immediately precede "the AGE [SINGULAR] TO COME [i.e. the MK age]) is NOT THE SAME THING as "this present age [singular]" that WE ("the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY") are standing in and speaking out from

(This concerns the "CHRONOLOGY" issues, having been covered in past posts)

Absolute truth! The end of THEIR age will be the 70th week of DANIEL, so for the Jews. The 70th week is not for the Gentile church of today.

On the other hand, Paul received a revelation on the end of the church age and wrote in in 1 Thes. 4 & 5. According to Paul, one instant after the rapture, TIME goes to the Day of the Lord. And according to John in Revelation, just days after the start of the Day of the Lord (6th seal) the 70th week of Daniel will start (7th seal).

In other words, it will be

| ->church age -> RAPTURE -> Day of the Lord ->|70th week ->|.

 

[DavidTree]

There you go, trying to foggy-up the mirror again. Things are really quite clear until someone goes waaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of their way to try and fog things. Go ahead then. I'm not a spanker like momma @Laura798 .

i use anti-fogger on my glasses when i read Scripture it is a HS7 secret formula called PRV3056

 

[oyster67]

My Bruce Lee physique was ages 14 - 18 then i really started working out and was dubbed 'Terminator/little Arnold' at age 21

I have been called a mussel many times.

 

[lamad]

No, that isn't the purpose.

Daniel 12 tells us, that the purpose of the 70th week will be to "complete shatter" the power of the Jews. Today they trust in their IDF.
God is going to take that away from them. And of course the ultimate purpose is to get them to trust in HIM, not their IDF. When they begin to trust in HIM, Then He will intervene. Ultimately the purpose will be to fulfill the promises He made to them. They will inherit the promised land. But that will ONLY come after they trust in Jesus as their long awaited Messiah.

 

[lamad]

And they are the first Christians. Jesus tells them about what Christians will face in the future. There is no getting around this. The GT is persecution of Christians from satan.

Let's take it from the first writer to write of the 70 weeks: Daniel

Dan. 12:7
AMP
And I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he held up his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and a half a time (three and a half years); and as soon as they finish shattering and crushing the power of the holy people, all these things will be finished.

In context this is the purpose of the LAST HALF of the week.

 

[DavidTree]

Absolute truth! The end of THEIR age will be the 70th week of DANIEL, so for the Jews. The 70th week is not for the Gentile church of today.

On the other hand, Paul received a revelation on the end of the church age and wrote in in 1 Thes. 4 & 5. According to Paul, one instant after the rapture, TIME goes to the Day of the Lord. And according to John in Revelation, just days after the start of the Day of the Lord (6th seal) the 70th week of Daniel will start (7th seal).

In other words, it will be

| ->church age -> RAPTURE -> Day of the Lord ->|70th week ->|.

a lot of talk and adding to God's words.

 

[iTheophilus]

Revelation shows the Church in Heaven before the Second Coming...

19:5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Hey there, Oyster. . . Here is the 7th trumpet and there’s great jubilation in this 19th chapter of Revelation. As Jesus Christ returns to this earth after having judged the great whore and avenged the blood of His servants, the 7th Trump continues to sound. Babylon the Great is history! We are now in the Millennium!