How To Tell If...

[Stunnedbygrace]

How to tell if someone has been taught by men or taught by the Holy Spirit:

If God has given to a man, he will freely share what he has been given. He will do so in a gentle manner, not bending or breaking a single reed.

If other men have taught a man, you will hear things like this in the discussion:
That is stupid!
You are sooooo ignorant!
That's dumber than dirt!
You know nothing about holiness!
You are a heretic!
You are a wolf!

Knowledge puffs a man up into great arrogance. But love, through Christ, edifies.
Perfect doctrine does not cover a multitude of sins. Love covers a multitude of sins.

We give ourselves away. You can't fool a man walking in love. He either smells the fragrance of His Lords' robes around you or he doesn't. But you can fool other men who are also not walking in love very easily.

 

[Mec99]

The Scriptures do say 'Wolf in sheep clothing'.

Matthew 7:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

The Scriptures do say 'Wolf in sheep clothing'.

Matthew 7:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

GM mec!
Yes, it does say this.
But beware and then do what?
Taunt the wolf with cries about how stupid he is, how ignorant, how dumb?
Follow the wolf around everywhere he goes and poke him with sticks?
The line begins to blur between those who follow Christ around and taunt Him if He then begins to follow wolves around and taunt them...

So, should we shake the dust from our feet and leave or should we become a wolf ourself and have another Crusade?
Do you see that the line blurs and no difference can be seen?
Should a difference be seen?

 

[emjcares]

There are other options.
Speaking the truth in love doesn't necessarily mean always soft and flowery language. Context matters. Talking to an individual that's seeking, or hurting, or confused, is not the same as talking to an antagonist, or a cultist, or the self-righteous, or a deceiver or demon. And none of that is the same as talking to a crowd. Different still, is it a crowd of believers, a crowd of interested learners, or a crowd of naysayers?
Is the conversation in person, by phone, in writing, recorded to be heard or read later? Is it to a specific person(s), or just in general to whoever?
A variety of factors may enter into how we communicate. And yes, love should be the overarching motivation. How we express that is not always uniform, or easy, or understood.
Many of us have expressed things that an outside/onlooker might be a bit shocked by, but it's precisely BECAUSE we love someone that our words may come out the way they do, whereas, we might not speak the same way to a stranger or someone we don't 'love quite as much'.
But remember, the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference, ignorance, lack of forgiveness.
Talk to me, harshly at times if you must, it can be worked out, forgiven, resolved, with God's help, if we work for and pull for each other, we can grow.
But ignoring and indifference has no where to go but down, to sadness or bitterness or depression, it's a real joy-stealer, and in my opinion, the greater sin.
Yes, we should strive toward sweeter communication, though it can be a bumpy ride, but STRIVE TOWARD is the direction. It can at least show we care, more than tender words that aren't true, or none at all.

 

[Willie-T]

GM mec!
Yes, it does say this.
But beware and then do what?
Taunt the wolf with cries about how stupid he is, how ignorant, how dumb?
Follow the wolf around everywhere he goes and poke him with sticks?
The line begins to blur between those who follow Christ around and taunt Him if He then begins to follow wolves around and taunt them...

So, should we shake the dust from our feet and leave or should we become a wolf ourself and have another Crusade?
Do you see that the line blurs and no difference can be seen?
Should a difference be seen?

Very well expressed! Especially the highlighted part. So many of us have kicked Jesus off His throne, and sat down in His place.

 

[Grace777x70]

GM mec!
Yes, it does say this.
But beware and then do what?
Taunt the wolf with cries about how stupid he is, how ignorant, how dumb?
Follow the wolf around everywhere he goes and poke him with sticks?
The line begins to blur between those who follow Christ around and taunt Him if He then begins to follow wolves around and taunt them...

So, should we shake the dust from our feet and leave or should we become a wolf ourself and have another Crusade?
Do you see that the line blurs and no difference can be seen?
Should a difference be seen?

Unfortunately it has come down to some people that we just need to do just that as you say "Shake the dust from our feet and leave" - but I like to leave room open for repentance but just to avoid them as much as possible. If I see repentance then I will start interacting with them again.

There are some people that I avoid their posts and treat their posts like I do the porn ads that pop up from time to time on my computer when I am looking for other things on the internet.

I seem to be adding some more people unto what I call "My porn ad list". Their posts are just plain evil to my eyes - full of malice and slander. We need to be careful what we see and hear as it does affect us.

Bad company corrupts. 1 Cor. 15:33

 

[Adstar]

How to tell if someone has been taught by men or taught by the Holy Spirit:

If God has given to a man, he will freely share what he has been given. He will do so in a gentle manner, not bending or breaking a single reed.

If other men have taught a man, you will hear things like this in the discussion:
That is stupid!
You are sooooo ignorant!
That's dumber than dirt!
You know nothing about holiness!
You are a heretic!
You are a wolf!

Knowledge puffs a man up into great arrogance. But love, through Christ, edifies.
Perfect doctrine does not cover a multitude of sins. Love covers a multitude of sins.

We give ourselves away. You can't fool a man walking in love. He either smells the fragrance of His Lords' robes around you or he doesn't. But you can fool other men who are also not walking in love very easily.

I believe people are people and often fail God in the way they deliver His message.. I see that in this forum. Yes it is something people need to repent off and i think most people who have fallen down on the job should be feeling that conviction from your post...

But still the truth is the truth and whilst some may deliver it in the worst way possible does not negate the fact that they still may be giving the truth to others..

But yeah doing it the Way Jesus told us to do it is the proper way.. I hope many read and make the effort to start anew with patience and self control..

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

There are other options.
Speaking the truth in love doesn't necessarily mean always soft and flowery language. Context matters. Talking to an individual that's seeking, or hurting, or confused, is not the same as talking to an antagonist, or a cultist, or the self-righteous, or a deceiver or demon. And none of that is the same as talking to a crowd. Different still, is it a crowd of believers, a crowd of interested learners, or a crowd of naysayers?
Is the conversation in person, by phone, in writing, recorded to be heard or read later? Is it to a specific person(s), or just in general to whoever?
A variety of factors may enter into how we communicate. And yes, love should be the overarching motivation. How we express that is not always uniform, or easy, or understood.
Many of us have expressed things that an outside/onlooker might be a bit shocked by, but it's precisely BECAUSE we love someone that our words may come out the way they do, whereas, we might not speak the same way to a stranger or someone we don't 'love quite as much'.
But remember, the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference, ignorance, lack of forgiveness.
Talk to me, harshly at times if you must, it can be worked out, forgiven, resolved, with God's help, if we work for and pull for each other, we can grow.
But ignoring and indifference has no where to go but down, to sadness or bitterness or depression, it's a real joy-stealer, and in my opinion, the greater sin.
Yes, we should strive toward sweeter communication, though it can be a bumpy ride, but STRIVE TOWARD is the direction. It can at least show we care, more than tender words that aren't true, or none at all.

Love should not be the overarching motivation. Love should be the ONLY motivation.
You may think ignoring is the greater sin, but what is shaking the dust from your feet if it isn't leaving and ignoring?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I believe people are people and often fail God in the way they deliver His message.. I see that in this forum. Yes it is something people need to repent off and i think most people who have fallen down on the job should be feeling that conviction from your post...

But still the truth is the truth and whilst some may deliver it in the worst way possible does not negate the fact that they still may be giving the truth to others..

But yeah doing it the Way Jesus told us to do it is the proper way.. I hope many read and make the effort to start anew with patience and self control..

To deliver the truth in the worst way possible is to do so with arrogance, pride, lack of humility, and lack of love. It shows who taught us.
That was the point of my op. Delivering the doctrines you believe are truth, but without love - Paul said one who does that has nothing.

 

[ukok102nak]

:rofl: and we've heard this before
how our lord and saviour christ jesus
the only begotten son of god
said this things during that time
as it is written
:read:
Mateo: 23. 15. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16. Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17. Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
18. And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19. Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
20. Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
21. And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
22. And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
28. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
29. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30. And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34. Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35. That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

~;> SO ITS UP TO ALL TO CHOOSED
WHAT IS GOOD
AND
WHAT IS EVIL

... . AND LET THE HISTORY BE THE WITNESS UNTO ALL OF THIS
UNTIL THE TIME COMES . ...

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Ahhh...ukok!
What apt verses...
I don't know why I have to think so hard to make the connection when you give verses, but it is always well worth the effort!

 

[mpaper345]

That is true,for if it comes from the flesh,they will give glory to themselves,and be arrogant in their approach.

The Pharisees liked to impress people,giving glory to themselves,which Jesus said they have their reward,because of exalting themselves,for they loved the praises of men,more than the praises of God.

3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
[SUP]5 [/SUP](For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

God said the bishop should not be a novice,lest being lifted up in pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil,which that can apply to any saint that lifts themselves up.

And there is God resists the proud,but gives grace unto the humble,pride comes before a fall,Paul was given a thorn in the flesh,so he would not be lifted up in pride,for all the abundance of revelations God showed him.

If we do exalt ourselves it is not of the Spirit,for the Spirit does not name call,and Jesus did not name call.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Depends on the attitude of the audience how the Spirit comes...

1 Corinthians 4:21

[SUP]21 [/SUP]What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?

 

[FreeNChrist]

The Scriptures do say 'Wolf in sheep clothing'.

Matthew 7:15
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Meaning they appear as sheep, not wolves. Just sayin'.

 

[Ariel82]

If a man convinced them of the truth, most believe they have to be THE man to convince others.

If they learnt it from God and His Holy Spirit, they don't strive to teach others the Truth but gently remind them of what God has already taught them, because they rest in the assurance of His promise to give all His children the Holy Spirit to teach and guide them.

It's the difference between wisdom from above and earthly wisdom.

 

[FreeNChrist]

"If you really know the Lord Jesus personally, then what you do not know does not really matter; but if you do not know the Lord Jesus personally, whatever you do know is worth nothing" -- Johann Bugenhagen

 

[Willie-T]

"If you really know the Lord Jesus personally, then what you do not know does not really matter; but if you do not know the Lord Jesus personally, whatever you do know is worth nothing" -- Johann Bugenhagen

That pretty much says it all.

 

[Willie-T]

If a man convinced them of the truth, most believe they have to be THE man to convince others.

If they learnt it from God and His Holy Spirit, they don't strive to teach others the Truth but gently remind them of what God has already taught them, because they rest in the assurance of His promise to give all His children the Holy Spirit to teach and guide them.

It's the difference between wisdom from above and earthly wisdom.

That would have very few people posting on here, taught by the Holy Spirit. (Except that most people say, "This isn't ME telling you, but the Holy Spirit.")

 

[KohenMatt]

How to tell if someone has been taught by men or taught by the Holy Spirit:

If God has given to a man, he will freely share what he has been given. He will do so in a gentle manner, not bending or breaking a single reed.

If other men have taught a man, you will hear things like this in the discussion:
That is stupid!
You are sooooo ignorant!
That's dumber than dirt!
You know nothing about holiness!
You are a heretic!
You are a wolf!

Knowledge puffs a man up into great arrogance. But love, through Christ, edifies.
Perfect doctrine does not cover a multitude of sins. Love covers a multitude of sins.

We give ourselves away. You can't fool a man walking in love. He either smells the fragrance of His Lords' robes around you or he doesn't. But you can fool other men who are also not walking in love very easily.

Good thoughts.

I would add though, that a man can be taught by man, but still communicate it in a way that you mentioned at the beginning. A man taught by man and not God can still share freely and gently.

Likewise, a man who has been legitimately taught by God can poorly communicate the message in the ways you mentioned. A man legitimately taught by God can communicate that teaching poorly.

The determination of whether God spoke or not cannot be definitively determined by man's use of that teaching. While it can certainly be a good litmus test, we are also called to test all things (1 John 4:1.) That should be our primary criteria.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I look for fruit first.
If I can't see any, I go from that point in any dealings with the man.
I don't think a man taught by the Holy Spirit will convey it badly. Or if he does, it won't be his consistency of behavior.
And a well-mannered man taught by men will give himself away soon. When discussing movies or travels he might not give it away, but in politics or religion, he always will.