How was the Covenant changed between the "Old" and "New" ?

[Hizikyah]

Psalm 51:10, "Create in me a clean heart, O Yah; and renew a right spirit within me."



I want to start by saying this is a very little talked about doctrine, in much need of understanding by the modern seekers of Yahshua/Jesus. So if I may ask, we try to stay focused on the topic. Not anything personal, as I myself am not perfect, and never will be as long as I am in the flesh. Anything denominational as I belong to no denomination, never have and never will, I simply consider myself a member of the Body of Messiah: (Romans 12:3-5, "For by the unmerited mercy given to me, I say to everyone who is among you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought; but rather, think soberly, in accordance as YHWH has dealt to each one the measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, and all members do not have the same function, So we, being many, are one body in Messiah: and each one members, one belonging to another.") or any distractions what so ever, unless one sees it as imperative to their point.


After having shared doctrine and spent many hours of the Bible Discussion Forum debating unmerited mercy and/vs Instructions (2 things I believe go hand in hand) I have come to the conclusion that the main stumbling block is the misunderstanding of the "Old" and "New" Covenants. Mainly due to a lack of proper translation, but also due to a lack or reading/understanding/accepting written Scripture.


The first Scripture I would use to prove my view is this:


Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My loving kindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness – I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

It is clearly written: "My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him" and "nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips"

"stand fast" does not mean do away with.


Isayah 59:20-21, "The Redeemer will depart from Zion for those of Yaaqob who repent of their sins! declares YHWH. As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says YHWH: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Instructions which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says YHWH: from this time and forevermore."


Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."


Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."


Galatians 3:28-29, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Messiah Yahshua. And if you are Messiah’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise."

There is only one way, that way is through Yahshua/Jesus. There is not one path for the Hebrew and one for the Gentile. For if you are a follower of Messiah you are no longer a Gentile, but and Israylite.

"it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl"

 

[Yahshua]

HEY!! Welcome back sir!!

Yes I agree, I think that's one of the main issues. Consequently, concepts get fused together.

 

[Hizikyah]

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."


Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

What Law isbeing spoken of here?


"Law" is word #H8451 – Torah: direction, instruction, law, Transliteration: Torah


Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."


the word Law is: 3551. nomos, nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ, Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine, Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os), Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

Now I know many are screaming "Judaizer" "justified by works." Not so, not what I am saying. I am simply saying, the Law of YHWH is not done away, and 100% of it still applies today. However the Levitical priesthood is abolished and Yahshua/Jesus now sees over all the priestly duties, but we will get to that in a bit.


So in the Hebrew language, which the "OT" Scriptures and some of the "NT" was written in there is not word for re-new, there is only new.


Example:


"New Moon" it is the same "moon" every 30 days, but it starts it's cycle over every 30 days... Again it is not a literal new moon... People misunderstand/don't understand the foresight of Yah, that He knew all that would happen before it did, it's not like He realized one day, oh I messed up, I have to change this, no but rather the physical priesthood and animal sacrifice were a placeholder, "the weak and unprofitable" a thing for the people to "have faith/works in" before Messiah came, but it was the foresight of Messiah, a way for them to understand a need for Him while letting the people have their go a it. This Psalm explains it so so so perfectly IMO, better than I ever could:


Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My loving kindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

 

[Hizikyah]

HEY!! Welcome back sir!!

Yes I agree, I think that's one of the main issues. Consequently, concepts get fused together.

Brother Yahshua! Glad to see you also! An important issue most certianly!

Psalm 86:7-12, "In the day of my distress I call upon You, For You answer me. There is none like You among the mighty ones, O יהוה ; And like Your works there are none. Let all nations You have made Come and bow themselves before You, O יהוה, And give esteem to Your Name. For You are great, and are doing wonders; You are Mighty, You alone. Teach me Your way, O יהוה ; Let me walk in Your truth; Unite my heart to fear Your Name. I praise You, O יהוה my Ylohim, with all my heart, And I esteem Your Name forever."

 

[Hizikyah]

"My covenant will stand fast with Him"


"My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness – I cannot lie"


If He does not change and He does not lie, how is all the Instructions non-binding?


Man may break covenant with Yah, but as Yah says, "My covenant I will not break". The Hand of Yah is always out offering the same offer that He has always offered to mankind.... however we are in a new age that was spoken of in Scripture:


Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against YHWH, and will wear out the saints of YHWH, and think to change times and Laws..."


2 Thessalonians 2:7, "7 For the mystery of iniquity is already working, but the One restraining him will continue to restrain him, until he is made to appear in the midst. And then that lawless one will be revealed, whom Yahshua will remove with the breath of His mouth, and make powerless with the appearance of His coming-- Whose coming is according to the energy of Satan…"


Psalms 81:3, "Blow the trumpet at the new moon, At the full moon, on our feast day. "


The word for new/renew covenant, is the same word for new/renew moon. Some use the "new Covenant" teaching in place of the "renewed Covenant" truth to cast aside what the Messiah taught, the Sent One, the Only Shepherd, the One Moses said we must hear and obey, Yahshua/Jesus…




Psalm 89:28,34:, "My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him." v34"My covenant I will not break, nor will I change the Law that has gone out of My lips."

 

[Bladerunner]

Psalm 51:10, "Create in me a clean heart, O Yah; and renew a right spirit within me."



I want to start by saying this is a very little talked about doctrine, in much need of understanding by the modern seekers of Yahshua/Jesus. So if I may ask, we try to stay focused on the topic. Not anything personal, as I myself am not perfect, and never will be as long as I am in the flesh. Anything denominational as I belong to no denomination, never have and never will, I simply consider myself a member of the Body of Messiah: (Romans 12:3-5, "For by the unmerited mercy given to me, I say to everyone who is among you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought; but rather, think soberly, in accordance as YHWH has dealt to each one the measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, and all members do not have the same function, So we, being many, are one body in Messiah: and each one members, one belonging to another.") or any distractions what so ever, unless one sees it as imperative to their point.


After having shared doctrine and spent many hours of the Bible Discussion Forum debating unmerited mercy and/vs Instructions (2 things I believe go hand in hand) I have come to the conclusion that the main stumbling block is the misunderstanding of the "Old" and "New" Covenants. Mainly due to a lack of proper translation, but also due to a lack or reading/understanding/accepting written Scripture.


The first Scripture I would use to prove my view is this:


Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My loving kindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness – I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

It is clearly written: "My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him" and "nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips"

"stand fast" does not mean do away with.


Isayah 59:20-21, "The Redeemer will depart from Zion for those of Yaaqob who repent of their sins! declares YHWH. As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says YHWH: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Instructions which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says YHWH: from this time and forevermore."


Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."


Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."


Galatians 3:28-29, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Messiah Yahshua. And if you are Messiah’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise."

There is only one way, that way is through Yahshua/Jesus. There is not one path for the Hebrew and one for the Gentile. For if you are a follower of Messiah you are no longer a Gentile, but and Israylite.

"it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl"

Ok, I'll bite...
Don't know what you are talking about "ISRAYL" Jesus called all who believes in HIM, His ELECT!... All the others including God the Father's original chosen people will be put through Hell. Just to get to where you could have been to begin with.

 

[Hizikyah]

Very few people know and teach the truth on this, but it's a renewed covenant just as it's a renewed moon. It's the same moon, not a brand new moon every month. Also do you believe the words of YHWH. I will say this, YHWH doesn't lie and the reason to preach a "new" covenant is to destroy everything YHWH from the religion. (Marcionisim is an example) It is YHWH's Covenant ratified in the Blood of Yahshua/Jesus! He knows the end from the beginning!



Psalm 89:28,34:, "My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him." v34"My covenant I will not break, nor will I change the Law that has gone out of My lips."


There is no longer an earthly Levitical priesthood, but only the priesthood after the order of Melchizedek, aka as Yahshua.


Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

Strong's Concordance # H3331 – metathesis a change,

A removal of the Levitical priesthood and a change the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, aka a transformation


metathesis: a change, removal, Original Word: μετάθεσις, εως, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: metathesis, Phonetic Spelling: (met-ath'-es-is), Short Definition: change, transformation, removal, Definition: (a) change, transformation, (b) removal.


3331 – metathesis a change,

A removal of the Levitical priesthood and a change the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, aka a transformation


Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change 2a) of things instituted or established




—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G3346; transposition, that is, transferal (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law):—change, removing, translation.


Strong's Concordance # H3346 – metatithemi, metatithemi: I transfer, desert, change, Original Word: μετατίθημι, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: metatithemi, Phonetic Spelling: (met-at-ith'-ay-mee), Short Definition: I transfer, desert, change, Definition: (a) I transfer, mid: I go over to another party, desert, (b) I change.


Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other)
1a) to transfer
1b) to change
1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred
1c1) to go or pass over
1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another

 

[Grace777x70]

The Old Covenant that was brought on Mount Sinai has been replaced with the New Covenant by the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is no separating out of the law. That is a man-made tradition - if you fail to keep one part - you are guilty of it all. The New Covenant in Christ is a better covenant built upon better promises and Jesus' blood speaks of better things.

It's funny how the book of "Hebrews" has a lot of the answers to Jewish Old Covenant law and traditions which shows that the Old Covenant inaugurated on Mount Sinai is a goner. Heb. 7:22; Heb. 8:6 ; Heb. 12:24

As far as the theory that the law of Moses being what is written on our hearts - here are 17 reasons why it is NOT the 10 commandments that is written on our hearts as prophesied by Ezekiel.

Click here..

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/143790-when-did-law-expire-3.html#post2854773

If it isn't the 10 commandments that is written on our hearts - then what is?....The answer is Who is written on our hearts.

Click here...

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/143790-when-did-law-expire-4.html#post2854819

The very definition of a Judaizer is someone that comes in and tries to get Christians to live by the law of Moses as Paul talked about in Galatians.

 

[eph610]

Psalm 51:10, "Create in me a clean heart, O Yah; and renew a right spirit within me."



I want to start by saying this is a very little talked about doctrine, in much need of understanding by the modern seekers of Yahshua/Jesus. So if I may ask, we try to stay focused on the topic. Not anything personal, as I myself am not perfect, and never will be as long as I am in the flesh. Anything denominational as I belong to no denomination, never have and never will, I simply consider myself a member of the Body of Messiah: (Romans 12:3-5, "For by the unmerited mercy given to me, I say to everyone who is among you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought; but rather, think soberly, in accordance as YHWH has dealt to each one the measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, and all members do not have the same function, So we, being many, are one body in Messiah: and each one members, one belonging to another.") or any distractions what so ever, unless one sees it as imperative to their point.


After having shared doctrine and spent many hours of the Bible Discussion Forum debating unmerited mercy and/vs Instructions (2 things I believe go hand in hand) I have come to the conclusion that the main stumbling block is the misunderstanding of the "Old" and "New" Covenants. Mainly due to a lack of proper translation, but also due to a lack or reading/understanding/accepting written Scripture.


The first Scripture I would use to prove my view is this:


Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O YHWH! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My loving kindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness – I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

It is clearly written: "My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him" and "nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips"

"stand fast" does not mean do away with.


Isayah 59:20-21, "The Redeemer will depart from Zion for those of Yaaqob who repent of their sins! declares YHWH. As for Me, this is My covenant with them, says YHWH: My Spirit which is upon you, namely My Instructions which I have put in your mouth; they will not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your seed, nor from the mouth of your seed's seed, says YHWH: from this time and forevermore."


Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."


Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."


Galatians 3:28-29, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Messiah Yahshua. And if you are Messiah’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise."

There is only one way, that way is through Yahshua/Jesus. There is not one path for the Hebrew and one for the Gentile. For if you are a follower of Messiah you are no longer a Gentile, but and Israylite.

"it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl"

If I am Gentile and follow Jesus/Messiah I do NOT become a Israylite.


Judiazing is just as bad or worse than replacement theology and it was refuted by Paul all the time....stop telling people they have to become a Jew to be a follower of Jesus/Messiah....ts demon talk and that is all..

 

[eph610]

Very few people know and teach the truth on this, but it's a renewed covenant just as it's a renewed moon. It's the same moon, not a brand new moon every month. Also do you believe the words of YHWH. I will say this, YHWH doesn't lie and the reason to preach a "new" covenant is to destroy everything YHWH from the religion. (Marcionisim is an example) It is YHWH's Covenant ratified in the Blood of Yahshua/Jesus! He knows the end from the beginning!



Psalm 89:28,34:, "My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him." v34"My covenant I will not break, nor will I change the Law that has gone out of My lips."


There is no longer an earthly Levitical priesthood, but only the priesthood after the order of Melchizedek, aka as Yahshua.


Hebrews 7:11-12, "Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."

Strong's Concordance # H3331 – metathesis a change,

A removal of the Levitical priesthood and a change the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, aka a transformation


metathesis: a change, removal, Original Word: μετάθεσις, εως, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: metathesis, Phonetic Spelling: (met-ath'-es-is), Short Definition: change, transformation, removal, Definition: (a) change, transformation, (b) removal.


3331 – metathesis a change,

A removal of the Levitical priesthood and a change the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, aka a transformation


Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) transfer: from one place to another 2) to change 2a) of things instituted or established




—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
From G3346; transposition, that is, transferal (to heaven), disestablishment (of a law):—change, removing, translation.


Strong's Concordance # H3346 – metatithemi, metatithemi: I transfer, desert, change, Original Word: μετατίθημι, Part of Speech: Verb, Transliteration: metatithemi, Phonetic Spelling: (met-at-ith'-ay-mee), Short Definition: I transfer, desert, change, Definition: (a) I transfer, mid: I go over to another party, desert, (b) I change.


Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) to transpose (two things, one of which is put in place of the other)
1a) to transfer
1b) to change
1c) to transfer one's self or suffer one's self to be transferred
1c1) to go or pass over
1c2) to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another

Judiazer....go home

 

[Hizikyah]

Ok, I'll bite...
Don't know what you are talking about "ISRAYL" Jesus called all who believes in HIM, His ELECT!... All the others including God the Father's original chosen people will be put through Hell. Just to get to where you could have been to begin with.

"His elect" is certainly is a good way to explain, we are also called "the Body of Messiah", "His Sheep", "Children of Yah", and yes Israel/Israyl, For it is written;


Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Now I do not mean physical Israel, and I think the passage I just posted illustrates that perfectly.

Psalm 37:29, "The righteous shall inherit the earth, And dwell in it forever."

Phillipians 3:20, "But our citizenship is in heaven, out from which we also eagerly wait for our Ruler, Yahshua Messiah the King."

Ezekiyl 48:35, "The distance around the city will be eighteen thousand measures; and the name of the city from that day will be: YHWH SHAMMAH! (YHWH Is There)"

One could say spiritual Israyl, where race dose not and never did matter!

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what YHWH says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to YHWH, speak, saying; YHWH has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what YHWH says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YHWH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to YHWH, to serve Him, and to love the Name of YHWH, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

I am a former Gentile grafted in!

 

[eph610]

It seems to me the lesser pharisees on this forum could not get us converted so they brought in Saul....

 

[eph610]

"His elect" is certainly is a good way to explain, we are also called "the Body of Messiah", "His Sheep", "Children of Yah", and yes Israel/Israyl, For it is written;


Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Now I do not mean physical Israel, and I think the passage I just posted illustrates that perfectly.

Psalm 37:29, "The righteous shall inherit the earth, And dwell in it forever."

Phillipians 3:20, "But our citizenship is in heaven, out from which we also eagerly wait for our Ruler, Yahshua Messiah the King."

Ezekiyl 48:35, "The distance around the city will be eighteen thousand measures; and the name of the city from that day will be: YHWH SHAMMAH! (YHWH Is There)"

One could say spiritual Israyl, where race dose not and never did matter!

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what YHWH says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to YHWH, speak, saying; YHWH has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what YHWH says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YHWH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to YHWH, to serve Him, and to love the Name of YHWH, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

I am a former Gentile grafted in!

you are not a former gentile, you are just another deceived gentile sucked into Judaism and the law....

 

[Hizikyah]

I am a former Gentile grafted in!

Romans 11:11, "I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Let it not be! But by their fall deliverance has come to the gentiles, to provoke them to jealousy. And if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the gentiles, how much more their completeness! For I speak to you, the gentiles, inasmuch as I am an emissary to the gentiles, I esteem my service, if somehow I might provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. For if their casting away is the restoration to favor of the world, what is their acceptance but life from the dead? Now if the first-fruit is set-apart, the lump is also. And if the root is set-apart, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, have been grafted in among them, and came to share the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. And if you boast, remember: you do not bear the root, but the root bears you! You shall say then, “The branches were broken off that I might be grafted in. Good! By unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by belief. Do not be arrogant, but fear. For if Ylohim did not spare the natural branches, He might not spare you either. See then the kindness and sharpness of Ylohim: on those who fell sharpness, but toward you kindness, if you continue in His kindness, otherwise you also shall be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, shall be grafted in, for Ylohim is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree, how much more shall these who are the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? For I do not wish you to be ignorant of this secret, brothers, lest you should be wise in your own estimation, that hardening in part has come over Yisra’ĕl, until the completeness of the gentiles has come in. And so all Yisra’ĕl shall be saved, as it has been written, “The Deliverer shall come out of Tsiyon, and He shall turn away wickedness from Ya‛aqoḇ, and this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins. Truly, as regards the Good News they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of Ylohim are not to be repented of. For as you also at one time disobeyed Ylohim, but now have obtained compassion through their disobedience, so also these have now disobeyed, that through the compassion shown you they also might obtain compassion."

 

[Hizikyah]

If I am Gentile and follow Jesus/Messiah I do NOT become a Israylite.


Judiazing is just as bad or worse than replacement theology and it was refuted by Paul all the time....stop telling people they have to become a Jew to be a follower of Jesus/Messiah....ts demon talk and that is all..

Seems the Scriptures disagree with you rude man.

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though YHWH's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are YHWH's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is YHWH our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

Judiazer....go home

It seems to me the lesser pharisees on this forum could not get us converted so they brought in Saul....

Yahshua/Jesus got my back! You rude accuser and slanderer.

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Isayah 42:21, "YHWH is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 5:18-19, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected. Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of YHWH; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of YHWH."

2 Timothy 3:1-5, "But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people."

 

[Hizikyah]

you are not a former gentile, you are just another deceived gentile sucked into Judaism and the law....

Forgot this one in the last post:

Ezekiyl 36:26-28, "A new heart; mind, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."


Rev 21:1 And I saw a renewed heaven and a renewed earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 And I, Yoḥanan, saw the set-apart city, renewed Yerushalayim, coming down out of the heaven from YHWH, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the heaven saying, “See, the Booth of YHWH is with men, and He shall dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and YHWH Himself shall be with them and be their Strength. 4 “And YHWH shall wipe away every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying. And there shall be no more pain, for the former matters have passed away.”

 

[Hizikyah]

TIf it isn't the 10 commandments that is written on our hearts - then what is?....The answer is Who is written on our hearts.

Mmmm, Scripture says different, it says HE will write HIS Law on our hearts!:

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."


Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

1 Yahchanan/John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of YHWH: When we love YHWH by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of YHWH: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Psalm 100:1-5, "Make a joyful shout to YHWH, all you lands. Serve YHWH with gladness! Come before His presence with singing! Know that YHWH is our Father! It is He Who made us, and not we ourselves. We are His people, and the sheep of His pasture. Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise. Be thankful to Him, and bless His Name! For YHWH is righteous, His mercy is everlasting, and His truth endures throughout all generations!"

 

[Grace777x70]

Mmmm, Scripture says different, it says HE will write HIS Law on our hearts!:

Yeremyah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."


Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them."

1 Yahchanan/John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of YHWH: When we love YHWH by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of YHWH: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

2 John 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Psalm 100:1-5, "Make a joyful shout to YHWH, all you lands. Serve YHWH with gladness! Come before His presence with singing! Know that YHWH is our Father! It is He Who made us, and not we ourselves. We are His people, and the sheep of His pasture. Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise. Be thankful to Him, and bless His Name! For YHWH is righteous, His mercy is everlasting, and His truth endures throughout all generations!"

His "law" is Jesus. We as new creations in Christ have Christ in us and we are in Him. The law of Moses is not for the Christian.

And God's commandments in the New Covenant are explained out exactly what they are by John in 1 John 3:23.

I see where you "added" your own words in 1 John 5:2-3 and changed commandments to Law to try to make it "appear" it is the law of Moses. That is not "kosher".

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Judaizers are those that come into where Christ has been preached and try to get Christians to live by the law of Moses and Paul had very stern words for these types.

Galatians 1:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

[SUP]7 [/SUP] which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

[SUP]9 [/SUP] As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!


deserting in verse 6 - is the very same Greek word for "transposing, exchanging from on to another" as in Hebrews 7:12. In exchanging the priesthood there was also an exchanging of the law. Now we live by the law of Christ.

Tell me...should gentile Christians be circumcised as the law of Moses requires?

 

[Hizikyah]

His "law" is Jesus. We as new creations in Christ have Christ in us and we are in Him. The law of Moses is not for the Christian.

And God's commandments in the New Covenant are explained out exactly what they are by John in 1 John 3:23.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

Judaizers are those that come into where Christ has been preached and try to get Christians to live by the law of Moses and Paul had very stern words for these types.

Galatians 1:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

[SUP]7 [/SUP] which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

[SUP]9 [/SUP] As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!


deserting in verse 6 - is the very same Greek word for "transposing, exchanging from on to another" as in Hebrews 7:12. In exchanging the priesthood there was also an exchanging of the law. Now we live by the law of Christ.

Tell me...should gentile Christians be circumcised as the law of Moses requires?

Galatians 1:6-7 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;

John (Yahchanan) 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."


John (Yahchanan) 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Matt 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, YHWH Shammah, coming down from YHWH out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of YHWH is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and YHWH Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

Tell me...should gentile Christians be circumcised as the law of Moses requires?

Circumcision is an outward sign of inward faith, just like baptisim is, it is neither circumcision not water that save, but the Blood of Messiah and the Spirit of YHWH!

He is the same yesterday, today and forever:

1 Corinthians 7:19, "For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the Commandments of Yah?"

Deuteronomy 10:16, "Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and do not be stiff-necked any longer."


Yeremyah 9:21-25, "For death has come through our windows, and has entered our palaces, cutting of the children from the public squares, and the young men from the streets. Speak, saying; This is what Yahweh says: Even the carcasses of men will fall like refuse on the open field; like sheaves of grain behind the reaper, which no one will gather. This is what Yahweh says: Let not the wise glory in their wisdom, let not the mighty glory in their power, let not the rich glory in their riches; But let those who glory, glorify in this--that he understands and knows Me, that I am Yahweh Who exercises lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth; for in this I delight, says Yahweh. Behold, the days come, says Yahweh: that I will punish all those who are circumcised only in their foreskins."

Romans 2
English Standard Version
1Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. 2We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. 3Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6He will render to each one according to his works: 7to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8but for those who are self-seekinga and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11For God shows no partiality. 12For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

 

[Grace777x70]

James says that is you break one law - you are guilty of them all. You can't pick and choose which law you will keep and which one you won't. The law of Moses is a packaged deal - it is either keep in all or come to Christ.

We have shown the truth of the gospel of Christ and people that say we need to follow the law of Moses are perverting the gospel of the grace of Christ.

I will trust the Holy Spirit within believers in Christ to reveal Jesus to them and to not fall for this religion - it exchanges Christ for the Law.

The saints have been warned about this many times here in CC. They will not go back to the law of Moses for life and living and commit spiritual adultery on their Lord. He alone is our life - for we have died and our life is hidden with Christ in God. Col.3:3

We live now by the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus, the law of love, the law of liberty, the law of faith ( the Law is NOT of faith ), the law of Christ Himself that is in our new hearts created in righteousness and holiness.

We are new creations in Christ and He is our true life. We will NOT desert Him for "another gospel" as the Judaizers try to get Christians to do.