Hyper Grace summary

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PeterJens

Banned
Feb 24, 2015
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After talking to hyper-grace followers and reading what their preachers teach, there are some important doctrinal beliefs that make this faith different from Christianity.

1. Sin cannot be conquered by a follower of Jesus, we are slaves to it
Sin is everything we do without Christ. No good deed exists by itself.

2. Jesus died for the whole world and dealt with all mankinds sin irrespective of
peoples faith. No one is judged because of sin.

3. Faith in Jesus saves you into eternity, once you make that step. You can never
loose this step in your life.

4. People are sent to the lake of fire because of deeds done not in Christ.

5. No christian is convicted of sin, because only Satan convicts of sin which has
already been forgiven once we accept faith.

6. All sin is dealt with past, present, future at conversion.

7. All good works are legalist self justification and evil

8. Religion is evil, and they are commited to stamp it out

Now this means everyone is saved from sin, though judged for deeds done not in Christ and sent to Hell.

Now the core of the faith has literally been removed, and the outer shell remains. Behaviour is irrelevant no matter what the justification given is, because there is no definition of good or bad behaviour. To define it is to be judgemental and say this is good and that is bad, which is evil.

What has been done is to say sin continues but is not judged, so we are ok, not guilty.
Any sense of a trigger of guilt has also been removed, from the law, from fellow believers, from the Holy Spirit and from your conscience.

To now justify Hell, as sin is not the problem deeds have become the evil for which people are judged.

The difficulty is in constructing this theology all behaviour outside Christ has been deemed sinful. Therefore if Christ died and dealt with all sin, there is nothing left by good deeds, which cannot be judged.

So it does not work, at all.

The drive behind all of this is legalists who were driven daily by deep conviction of failure and sin, tried so hard to be good and failed. The solution was not to reset their definition of sin and failure but remove it entirely and say behaviour does not matter. Not suprisingly these self condemned people had a massive conversion experience and release when they stopped feeling guilty, or at least could appease it.


The core issue remains, real sin matters. It needs to be faced, dealt with and overcome. It is a lie to believe in Christ we cannot have victory over sin.

The problem with these believers is they still use christian language and their learnt behaviours while actually leaving the faith. All that remains is the emotional ties, which give them a reference point. They are also convinced we are evil and lost, bound to Hell because of our false religion. It therefore becomes like a cancer eating away at the heart of the faith, while claiming to represent it.

Challenge these people on their beliefs. To talk about repentance when you no longer believe sin is relevant is to lie. To talk about confessing sin, again when sin is irrelevant is a lie. To say behaviour matters, when God ignores it because of Christ, is a lie. Nothing matters to them except these core beliefs.

They will regard you as evil, a work of satan, and will tell you so at the first opportunity. They will call you to faith in Christ and repentance, which they have redefined, and say if you have already done it, you are lying. In a sense they no longer have sane reference points because sin is now an idea, or a faith position.
I have to repent of not believing like them, and become like them to be acceptable to God, but behaviour change is irrelevant. Behaviour change is mystically done by God because anything else is self works and sin.

I hope you get the idea of the hole they have dug for themselves and the fact they cannot dig themselves out again, because Christ has become something different than He actually is, and the words of the gospel say something different to them than to us, though the words are the same.

You will find constantly they talk about religious meaning and their meaning. It is a whole scale reinterpretation of cultural understanding of biblical truth, but most profoundly the removal of a sense of what sin is and is not.

This is not a work of Christ or the Holy Spirit as righteousness and being salt in the world is what restrains and keeps things in real focus. Only the enemy would want to remove conviction of sin and a sense of listening to your conscience, which is the main way anyone knows how to reference the world around them.
 
Define what you are saying sin is? if you say anything that transgresses Gods Word, then does this include Jesus Words? or only Moses words? is sin to commit adultery? or to lust in ones heart? I have much to say , but rather would like to hear your elaboration on what sin actually is? is it sin to deny Gods Son as our Savior? you have nice structure in your writing present your ideas, but alot is left undefined
 
jasonj;bt18252 said:
Define what you are saying sin is? if you say anything that transgresses Gods Word, then does this include Jesus Words? or only Moses words? is sin to commit adultery? or to lust in ones heart? I have much to say , but rather would like to hear your elaboration on what sin actually is? is it sin to deny Gods Son as our Savior? you have nice structure in your writing present your ideas, but alot is left undefined

You are right. The definition of sin is key to the real point.
My definition of sin is the transgression of Gods moral law. Now this in some regards is open ended, but mainly its focus is on actions, things you do, or dwell on which are banned, or do not do things you are told to do. The key issue is always the source.
The written law and commands of God, Jesus commands, your conscience and what the Holy Spirit lays on your heart. With a command like love, things can get quite subjective.

The point I am trying to make is if you deny this benchmark and say there is no valid basis of upon which sin can be identified as sin, you loose righteousness, or holiness or purity.
Now this is the position of hyper-grace teachers and followers.
 
I would spend time addressing each of these points that are misconceptions and lies about the Gospel of Grace but I feel like they have been addressed in recent threads and you just wish to have a pulpit. You know very well no one subscribes to these points with its suspected repercussions. If you think God's grace leads to sin, you're mistaken. God's grace sets us free from sin's dominion and you know this is what "hyper-grace" theology teaches.
 
One mark of those who attempt to represent Hyper-grace is to claim the issues are dealt with when they are not.

I went back to understand the idea of hell is not for sinners but good deeds doers, and realised with is not universally held. Some accept christs death is only accepted by faith. Hell is therefore still for the sinner, though the pressure on the believer is not there, because there is no conviction of sin except via satan.

Without universal forgiveness though carnal religion and walking in the Spirit does not work. The problem is the ideas are rooted in individual personal experiences and then brought back into theology, without proper discipline.

In the end I suggest you work through what you believe and therefore its consequences than blindly accept what you are given.
 
Jesus says that even a wrong thought is sin. Jesus Words rule scripture have total authority over Law. Grace is misunderstood. Grace makes you able to obey from the heart, by understanding that yes in fact, Jesus already dealt with everything for me, I no longer fight a battle he died to win. instead of trying to be "sinless" i simply keep my eyes on Jesus and follow where He Leads me. to focus on sin is to operate under the mosaic principles. Jesus sets people free of slavery by His Grace. When you arent wieghed down by the condemnation of laws, and just trust in His power. That is where you understand " I can do NOTHING when i am not looking at Jesus. the wonderful part of this is He is so beautiful that when i look at Jesus, my heart is full of putre light and sin isnt a problem anymore, i fill up with Jesus the SAVIOR, and sin has no power to control me. why is grace the absolute only way? because without Gods Grace, we are sinful people trying to follow laws. with it we just be who God is making us to be and the "sin" so many fight just falls away, things you cant overcome, are removed by Jesus when and only when you humble yourself and rest in His power, trust in His righteousness. those who dont understand Grace, rather than seeking it, they say "its not enough" the sinful mins hears grace, and thier own mind says " i see a sinner hes lost he trusts God for everything even his own obedience." I say......God answers prayer. my obedience is only by His grace, He gave it to me, the harder i tried, the more i failed. when i asked him, the power showed up in my Life. all because i humbled my mind and accepted Jesus words......He is enough. trust Him. that is Grace. to say hyper-grace is no different than Grace Grace is Gods provision for those who want to live a righteous life, because they Love God from thier heart where His spirit resides. to preach that grace isnt enough, takes poer away from the truth, its better to trust Jesus to make your heart new and clean, than to cling to the thought that we dont need a savior. i will need to be looking at Jesus everyday, for when i dont, i fall into trying to be me, and forget that He is my goal and He does indeed have grace that is more than enough to change a sinner to a child of God. Grace is Gods will to heal us from sin. accept it i say this all in hope that instead of holding to your own belief you will look to Jesus who provides everything we need for a righteous, joyful overcoming and wondrously exciting Life, when we stand on His promises and forget the dead man we were. the key to righteousness is to look away from rules and just follow after Jesus words and teachings period.
 
jasonj;bt18262 said:
Jesus says that even a wrong thought is sin. Jesus Words rule scripture have total authority over Law. Grace is misunderstood. Grace makes you able to obey from the heart, by understanding that yes in fact, Jesus already dealt with everything for me, I no longer fight a battle he died to win. instead of trying to be "sinless" i simply keep my eyes on Jesus and follow where He Leads me. to focus on sin is to operate under the mosaic principles. Jesus sets people free of slavery by His Grace. When you arent wieghed down by the condemnation of laws, and just trust in His power. That is where you understand " I can do NOTHING when i am not looking at Jesus. the wonderful part of this is He is so beautiful that when i look at Jesus, my heart is full of putre light and sin isnt a problem anymore, i fill up with Jesus the SAVIOR, and sin has no power to control me. why is grace the absolute only way? because without Gods Grace, we are sinful people trying to follow laws. with it we just be who God is making us to be and the "sin" so many fight just falls away, things you cant overcome, are removed by Jesus when and only when you humble yourself and rest in His power, trust in His righteousness. those who dont understand Grace, rather than seeking it, they say "its not enough" the sinful mins hears grace, and thier own mind says " i see a sinner hes lost he trusts God for everything even his own obedience." I say......God answers prayer. my obedience is only by His grace, He gave it to me, the harder i tried, the more i failed. when i asked him, the power showed up in my Life. all because i humbled my mind and accepted Jesus words......He is enough. trust Him. that is Grace. to say hyper-grace is no different than Grace Grace is Gods provision for those who want to live a righteous life, because they Love God from thier heart where His spirit resides. to preach that grace isnt enough, takes poer away from the truth, its better to trust Jesus to make your heart new and clean, than to cling to the thought that we dont need a savior. i will need to be looking at Jesus everyday, for when i dont, i fall into trying to be me, and forget that He is my goal and He does indeed have grace that is more than enough to change a sinner to a child of God. Grace is Gods will to heal us from sin. accept it i say this all in hope that instead of holding to your own belief you will look to Jesus who provides everything we need for a righteous, joyful overcoming and wondrously exciting Life, when we stand on His promises and forget the dead man we were. the key to righteousness is to look away from rules and just follow after Jesus words and teachings period.

"Jesus says that even a wrong thought is sin."

This is not true. Jesus addressed a different question. The source of behaviour is what you dwell on in your heart. It is what you think about, it is your motivations and priorities, how you feel, forgive, desire things, who you trust. These things produce direction, and choice.
If you lust after women in your mind, choose to look at sexual desire as a focus of attention, then you are sinning in your heart. This has the same effect on your soul as actual sin. It gives birth to sinful behaviour and condemns you.

Jesus is saying part of walking with him is dealing with the heart and staightening out ourselves so that we are pure and righteous in our thoughts and behaviour.

It is also important to realise we are talking here about chosen behaviour not dreams or random thoughts that your body creates.

If as a believer you have not grasped this aspect of walking with Jesus you have barely begun.
 
Thinking a wrong thought isnt something jesus identified as sin? why did he rebuke peter for thinking a thought not of God? "get behind me satan, you do not have the things of God in mind, but of the devil" so peter was rebuked for something that wasnt wrong?

Heres my last thought. you in your mind are too wise to learn. you make judgements about everything based on your thoughts. Go with the holy spirits thoughts. submit rather than fighting the work God is doing in you. you cant reach heaven in your strength. that is the lesson of the mosaic law. sin is not an act, it is a spiritual part of humans. sin is something that ONLY Jesus Christ can deal with. you can monitoer your actions and try to come up with another way to be saved, but there is no other way. some people eager to learn, learn themselves out of Grace, they lose faith in Jesus, they think "he cant do it, i have to." Jesus Himself, is the only way to "deal with anything" your puffed up mind has become a bond for you, i pray you look at yourself and lose the "intelligence" and trust God to make you able to obey without even trying. The difference here is self righteousness, and Jesus Righteousnes wich is the only acceptable to God. Again, My righteousness comes from God, through Prayer, the less i fight, the more God works and REMOVES sins control. a person can either fight on thier own or rest in Faith. you are blind because your mind is sinful, thats why its a constant effort for you to be righteous. When God heals your heart, your thoughts are different, your desires what you want to do changes. the control in u is righteousness. to give to a needy person no longer hurts as it does to a selfish person. A good heart is made by Jesus, the actions are a fruit. you will never change your heart by following rules meant for sinners hearts. to govern evil. I see no fruit in arguing. you and i are serving two different gospels. God Loves you though. remember that He is much wiser, and much more able to Make things good, that a sinful human. Know Jesus bro, and you will be SET free and wont have to try to break your own chains
 
Mark 7:20-23 " He went on and said " What comes out of a man is what makes Him unclean. for from within, out of mens hearts come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft,murder adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy,slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come out of a man and make him unclean."

this is how your learning has led you away. No one is perfect, apart from Jesus. When we are walking a good walk following Him, the effort is to not look away. when you do you get into the Pharisee righteousness, wich is self righteousness wich cvomes by their ability to keep rigid laws. think who it was that Jesus condemned? the Pharisees had the righteousness that came from obedience to Law. If this is the answer for Christians, why did Jesus tell His disciples " your righteousness must surpass that of the Pharisees, the most religious group, and why did he condemn the teachers of the Law? Religion today is the same. if I keep rules im in, if I don't im out. there is no good in that thinking. No righteous nature, no rebirth. Grace is not what either side makes it. it is more than the legalist thinking and more than the "free to sin" side. it is our Life. to shout " Gods grace wont save you unless....." that hurts people who are trying to depend on Gods grace by condemning them. most Christians who have faults, already know they do, the message your a sinner, does no good unless you are preaching to a law keeper. because they neglect the sin and deal with the fruit, but the tree is still inside until Christ comes and circumsizes the heart. I rarely engage in this debate anymore, the world has its own idea of how to be "saved".....Jesus is the way He says I am the way. there is grace for obedience, forgiveness, strength in weakness...grace for all things. even when we are standing before the throne of God, it is only and always by His Grace. I find this to be true : When a Christian message, doesn't exalt Jesus in all ways, there is something missed
 
jasonj;bt18270 said:
Thinking a wrong thought isnt something jesus identified as sin? why did he rebuke peter for thinking a thought not of God? "get behind me satan, you do not have the things of God in mind, but of the devil" so peter was rebuked for something that wasnt wrong?

Heres my last thought. you in your mind are too wise to learn. you make judgements about everything based on your thoughts. Go with the holy spirits thoughts. submit rather than fighting the work God is doing in you. you cant reach heaven in your strength. that is the lesson of the mosaic law. sin is not an act, it is a spiritual part of humans. sin is something that ONLY Jesus Christ can deal with. you can monitoer your actions and try to come up with another way to be saved, but there is no other way. some people eager to learn, learn themselves out of Grace, they lose faith in Jesus, they think "he cant do it, i have to." Jesus Himself, is the only way to "deal with anything" your puffed up mind has become a bond for you, i pray you look at yourself and lose the "intelligence" and trust God to make you able to obey without even trying. The difference here is self righteousness, and Jesus Righteousnes wich is the only acceptable to God. Again, My righteousness comes from God, through Prayer, the less i fight, the more God works and REMOVES sins control. a person can either fight on thier own or rest in Faith. you are blind because your mind is sinful, thats why its a constant effort for you to be righteous. When God heals your heart, your thoughts are different, your desires what you want to do changes. the control in u is righteousness. to give to a needy person no longer hurts as it does to a selfish person. A good heart is made by Jesus, the actions are a fruit. you will never change your heart by following rules meant for sinners hearts. to govern evil. I see no fruit in arguing. you and i are serving two different gospels. God Loves you though. remember that He is much wiser, and much more able to Make things good, that a sinful human. Know Jesus bro, and you will be SET free and wont have to try to break your own chains

You make me laugh. Peter when he said to Jesus, no you cannot die, he was speaking the same intent satan had. The point was it was not just a thought, it was a believed opinion that Peter spoke out.

You obviously have not understood the difference between I see a nice cake and think I would like to eat that, and saying I want that can, I will take that cake.

I you cannot get to the distinction then there is not much to discuss.
 
mark 7:20-23...What comes out of a man makes him unclean. for from within out of mens hearts come EVIL Thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit. lwdnesws, ency, slander, arrogance and folly. all these evils come from inside a man and make him unclean."


take care