I was wondering who believes you can get unsaved.

[Magenta]

It’s the old man and the new he’s talking about the slave to sin before one converts to Jesus , you are talking about the man who is set free

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; ( the slave to sin )

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”( the free man )
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some haven’t accepted the truth and repented yet , haven’t converted yet so they are still here needing to acknowledge the truth

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The bible is speaking to believers so when it says “ you used to be slaves to sin , but now ….it’s speaking to people converting over and explaining the process

“For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some haven’t converted

“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, ( used to be )

but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin,

ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:17-18‬ ‭

those who haven’t still believe fully they have no choice after conversion we realize yes we’re free to choose and always have been Satan had our mind trapped in slavery Jesus sets us free and free indeed

I wonder what the percentage of Christians is who conflate making choices with having a will that is free. It seems to be quite high despite the plethora of verses that explicitly state such things as: all were lovers of darkness/unrighteousness, slaves to sin, hostile toward God, dead to God, cannot understand the spiritual things of God, children of wrath, desperately wicked, blinded by the god of this world, taken captive to do the will of the devil as you mentioned in some of your points, making him incapable of submitting to God... prior to his heart being circumcised, which they then speak about as if man is made a robot and has no choice, when it is what enables one to make the choice God desires. These and many more verses which lay bare the condition of man continually get brushed aside and/or completely ignored while they pretend that the natural man is free to choose to be saved, even against Scripture that again, explicitly states it is according to God's mercy and not the desire or effort of men... men in the flesh (as opposed to the spirit) within which NOTHING good dwells. I have seen how they twist such verses and say they do not apply to the natural man, but to the saved person. My goodness. I wonder, too, at why they are so hostile to the idea that it is God's choice, desire, and will.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

From Romans 6:16-18 ~ Do you not know that you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

I believe one day sister you and I can sit down at a table in eternity and really have a good conversation you are and always have been a blessing.

even when we sometimes bicker over a letter or two , can’t wait to meet you in the real world !!

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain:

for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.




And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; and had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1, 3-7, 10-12, 14, 22-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Magenta]

I believe one day sister you and I can sit down at a table in eternity and really have a good conversation you are and always have been a blessing.

even when we sometimes bicker over a letter or two , can’t wait to meet you in the real world !!

“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain:

for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.

And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; and had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:1, 3-7, 10-12, 14, 22-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Shall never a cross word pass between us...

Hebrews 13:14~ This world is not our home; we are looking forward to our everlasting home in heaven. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Shall never a cross word pass between us...

Hebrews 13:14~ This world is not our home; we are looking forward to our everlasting home in heaven. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain

And if it does let it bounce off a wall of grace

 

[Webers.Home]

Ah, so Jesus has to be crucified again and again each time a Christian sins?

During dialogue with a Jewish man several years ago, I was asked a very
good question that went like this:

"Jesus died for your sins up to the point of your conversion. What about the
sins you are committing now?"

That's a reasonable question coming from a Jew because Levitical
atonements had to be repeated over and over again. Even Yom Kippur, the
great day of atonement, is only useful up to that point and from thence Jews
began accumulating sins towards the next Yom Kippur.

Now supposing God had stopped compiling the Jews' sins on Yom Kippur?
Well, that would've been be the cat's meow because then they would've
needed to avail themselves of the great day of atonement but one time only
rather than repeatedly year after year.

Well; the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God per Exodus,
Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy doesn't allow for God to stop
compiling His people's sins; whereas Christ's crucifixion is much better than
Yom Kippur because it does allow for God to stop.

● 2Cor 5:19 . . God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not
counting men's sins against them. (cf. Jer 30:33 & Heb 10:1-18)

The Greek word translated "counting" basically means an inventory, i.e. an
indictment. Well, needless to say; without an indictment, prosecutors have
no grounds for hauling someone into court.

* There's a bit of a moral hazard under these circumstances. Due to the fact
that Jesus' followers are on an honor system instead of a legal system, they
have an incentive to become ever more sinful; hence Paul's urging them to
cultivate self restraint.

● Rom 6:1-3 . . What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that
grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any
longer?

● Rom 6:12-14 . . Do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey
its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of
wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been
brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as
instruments of righteousness.

● Gal 5:13 . .You, my brethren, were called to be free. But do not use your
freedom to indulge the sinful nature.

FAQ: If God is no longer compiling the sins of the folks unified with Christ,
then what's with 1John 1:5-10?

REPLY: God desires fellowship with folks rescued from retribution by means
of His son's crucifixion; which of course requires transparency on their part.
(cf. Isa 1:18 & Ps 32:5-6)

But the important thing is: according to John 5:24 nothing Jesus' followers
do now goes in the books to be used against them later on down the road
because their sins are no longer criminal matters, instead; now they're
family matters.

● 1John 2:1-2 . . My little children, I am writing these things to you that you
may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus
Christ the righteous.
_

 

[Beckworth]

It’s the old man and the new he’s talking about the slave to sin before one converts to Jesus , you are talking about the man who is set free

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; ( the slave to sin )

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”( the free man )
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some haven’t accepted the truth and repented yet , haven’t converted yet so they are still here needing to acknowledge the truth

“in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The bible is speaking to believers so when it says “ you used to be slaves to sin , but now ….it’s speaking to people converting over and explaining the process

“For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some haven’t converted

“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, ( used to be )

but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin,

ye became the servants of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:17-18‬ ‭

those who haven’t still believe fully they have no choice after conversion we realize yes we’re free to choose and always have been Satan had our mind trapped in slavery Jesus sets us free and free indeed

The passage clearly gives us the choice to “put off” the old man and we must choose to “put on” the new man. No one forces us to do this. I don’t see how this scripture proves that once you decide to put on”. The new man you can never “fall away”, which is what this thread is about. Find a scripture that says once you are saved, you can’t, of your own free will, fall away. Because I can find a scripture that says YOU CAN FALL FROM GRACE. Gal. 5:4. If you find one that says we cannot fall from grace, then we obviously have a contradiction in the Bible and can’t trust anything it says.

 

[Beckworth]

Ah,so Jesus has to be crucified again and again each time a Christian sins?

That is not a necessary conclusion as I’m sure you know. God has allowed for that when He commanded repentance. Not only that Hebrews 10:26 says that there is plenty of Jesus’s sacrifice to cover all of our sins as long as they are not done “willfully”. So it would seem that you are trying to LIMIT or render the sacrifice of Jesus WEAK in power to suggest that it would have to be repeated each time we sin. Surely you know better than that and this is just a “quibble.”

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The passage clearly gives us the choice to “put off” the old man and we must choose to “put on” the new man. No one forces us to do this. I don’t see how this scripture proves that once you decide to put on”. The new man you can never “fall away”, which is what this thread is about. Find a scripture that says once you are saved, you can’t, of your own free will, fall away. Because I can find a scripture that says YOU CAN FALL FROM GRACE. Gal. 5:4. If you find one that says we cannot fall from grace, then we obviously have a contradiction in the Bible and can’t trust anything it says.

“The passage clearly gives us the choice to “put off” the old man and we must choose to “put on” the new man. No one forces us to do this.”

yea I agree that’s been my position always . Sometimes people read a single comment in the midst of a conversation and they actually haven’t followed what the person is saying .

“I don’t see how this scripture proves that once you decide to put on”. The new man you can never “fall away”, which is what this thread is about. “

again lol that’s been my point also I even quoted this among many other verses to support it

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you’ve misunderstood what I’m saying because you came in the middle of a conversation my position is that we are free to choose the gospel or reject it and that decision will determine the end

this

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or this

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭

listen to this parable and see if you notice a requirement

“Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.


He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.


But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭13:18-23‬ ‭

this is going to determine the end of us all the choice is to believe the lord Jesus and accept what he’s saying as truth

Or to reject what he said as foolishness and be judged by the same words later

yes everyone has free Will to choose the gospel and it’s already sent into the world offering everyone the same choice to repent and believe or to reject it as not the truth

 

[MeowFlower]

That is not a necessary conclusion as I’m sure you know. God has allowed for that when He commanded repentance. Not only that Hebrews 10:26 says that there is plenty of Jesus’s sacrifice to cover all of our sins as long as they are not done “willfully”. So it would seem that you are trying to LIMIT or render the sacrifice of Jesus WEAK in power to suggest that it would have to be repeated each time we sin. Surely you know better than that and this is just a “quibble.”

If you followed the discussion you would see I was addressing someones belief in context.

 

[Kroogz]

The passage clearly gives us the choice to “put off” the old man and we must choose to “put on” the new man. No one forces us to do this. I don’t see how this scripture proves that once you decide to put on”. The new man you can never “fall away”, which is what this thread is about. Find a scripture that says once you are saved, you can’t, of your own free will, fall away. Because I can find a scripture that says YOU CAN FALL FROM GRACE. Gal. 5:4. If you find one that says we cannot fall from grace, then we obviously have a contradiction in the Bible and can’t trust anything it says.

Falling from grace is not loss of salvation.

An example of falling from Grace? A believer who thinks they can lose salvation. That is the epitome of falling from His grace.

We are made new by God. We are made His sheep. We are new CREATURES in Christ.

We are His sheep. John 10:28And I give unto them(His sheep) eternal life; and they(His sheep) shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

The world tells us that men can become women. Women can become men. Sheep can become goats.

If God made you a man...You're a man. Period.
If God made you a woman...you're a woman. Period.
If God made you a sheep. You're a sheep. Period.

If we can 'make' ourselves goats again. Then men can "make" themselves women.