If it's by works then I'm doomed !

[eternally-gratefull]

Christian heretics in the early church thought that grace was a spiritual substance that descended from above in a mystical conjunction that restored their divinity.

Against Heresies

4. And committing many other abominations and impieties, they run us [of the Church] down (who from the fear of God guard against sinning even in thought or word) as utterly contemptible and ignorant persons, while they highly exalt themselves, and claim to be perfect, and the elect seed. For [the gnostic heretics] declare that we simply receive grace for use [in sanctification], wherefore also it will again be taken away from us; but that they themselves have grace as their own special possession, which has descended from above by means of an unspeakable and indescribable conjunction; and on this account more will be given them. ... On this account, they tell us that it is necessary for us [of the Church] whom they call animal men, and describe as being of the world, to practise continence and good works, that by this means we may attain at length to the intermediate habitation [of heaven], but that to [the gnostic heretics] who are called "the spiritual and perfect" [by themselves] such a course of conduct is not at all necessary. For it is not conduct of any kind which leads into the Pleroma [heaven], but [it is] the seed [of grace] sent forth thence [from heaven] in a feeble, immature state, and here [on earth] brought to perfection. ​

I did not get the chapter and verse? Where is this in the bible?

All this arguing over a word and whether we can capitolize it or not is petty if this is how low we have to sink to try to go against someones belief, then we are in a sad state.

 

[Mitspa]

i think part of the problem we've been having in this forum is the personification of grace... folks even spell it with a capital letter, as though it's a free floating commodity?

goodness, how dependent we are on the grace of God!
but love and grace are but two facets of God's nature as revealed in the Bible.

Actually the "Spirit of Grace" kinda qualifies the very term to be magnified when used in a proper context.

 

[Grace777x70]

Christian heretics in the early church thought that grace was a spiritual substance that descended from above in a mystical conjunction that restored their divinity.

Against Heresies

4. And committing many other abominations and impieties, they run us [of the Church] down (who from the fear of God guard against sinning even in thought or word) as utterly contemptible and ignorant persons, while they highly exalt themselves, and claim to be perfect, and the elect seed. For [the gnostic heretics] declare that we simply receive grace for use [in sanctification], wherefore also it will again be taken away from us; but that they themselves have grace as their own special possession, which has descended from above by means of an unspeakable and indescribable conjunction; and on this account more will be given them. ... On this account, they tell us that it is necessary for us [of the Church] whom they call animal men, and describe as being of the world, to practise continence and good works, that by this means we may attain at length to the intermediate habitation [of heaven], but that to [the gnostic heretics] who are called "the spiritual and perfect" [by themselves] such a course of conduct is not at all necessary. For it is not conduct of any kind which leads into the Pleroma [heaven], but [it is] the seed [of grace] sent forth thence [from heaven] in a feeble, immature state, and here [on earth] brought to perfection. ​

The difference between gnostics and real Christians with a new nature in Christ is night and day. Grace is for all mankind not just for a select few as those gnostics thought. Gnostics had nothing to do with Christ and true believers in Christ as you have been shown multiple times.

Can't you let one thread go by and allow people to bask in the goodness of God? Please brother - this young lady full of the love of God in here is telling of the beauty of the Lord and is rejoicing in her freedom in Christ - let's not ruin another thread.

Titus 2:11-13 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,

[SUP]12 [/SUP] instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,

[SUP]13 [/SUP] looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

 

[notmyown]

Actually the "Spirit of Grace" kinda qualifies the very term to be magnified when used in a proper context.

well, yeah, when we're speaking of the Holy Spirit, third Person of the trinity, sure.

i guess i'd say Spirit of grace.

 

[BeyondET]

Grace was free but it doesn't mean it was cheap, we were bought with a cost that cost was the Cross...

 

[notmyown]

Christian heretics in the early church thought that grace was a spiritual substance that descended from above in a mystical conjunction that restored their divinity.

Against Heresies

4. And committing many other abominations and impieties, they run us [of the Church] down (who from the fear of God guard against sinning even in thought or word) as utterly contemptible and ignorant persons, while they highly exalt themselves, and claim to be perfect, and the elect seed. For [the gnostic heretics] declare that we simply receive grace for use [in sanctification], wherefore also it will again be taken away from us; but that they themselves have grace as their own special possession, which has descended from above by means of an unspeakable and indescribable conjunction; and on this account more will be given them. ... On this account, they tell us that it is necessary for us [of the Church] whom they call animal men, and describe as being of the world, to practise continence and good works, that by this means we may attain at length to the intermediate habitation [of heaven], but that to [the gnostic heretics] who are called "the spiritual and perfect" [by themselves] such a course of conduct is not at all necessary. For it is not conduct of any kind which leads into the Pleroma [heaven], but [it is] the seed [of grace] sent forth thence [from heaven] in a feeble, immature state, and here [on earth] brought to perfection. ​

lol maybe we ought to begin a thread on the gnostics, so as to clarify and not derail this thread.

pleroma speaks of sum total.... fullness... like this:

For in Christ all the fullness {pleroma} of the Deity dwells in bodily form. (Col 2:9)

 

[Grace777x70]

Actually the "Spirit of Grace" kinda qualifies the very term to be magnified when used in a proper context.

I agree... The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of grace and also the Spirit of Christ. Trying to separate them IMO is like trying to separate the wet from the water.

Romans 8:9 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Philippians 1:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] for I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayers and the provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

Given this truth I also agree with "notmyown" that young Christians can easily take grace as a concept instead of the very life and essence of our Lord. The concept of grace ahs no power to manifest the exchanged life in Christ that is ours in our new creation - our inner person created in righteousness and holiness.

 

[JennaLeanne]

Some powerful powerful posts on this thread... Please keep it flowing in the unity we have here.. If anything opposes that then ignore it

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

lol maybe we ought to begin a thread on the gnostics, so as to clarify and not derail this thread.

pleroma speaks of sum total.... fullness... like this:

For in Christ all the fullness {pleroma} of the Deity dwells in bodily form. (Col 2:9)

My apologies. I was just expanding on your perceptive comment.

 

[notmyown]

My apologies. I was just expanding on your perceptive comment.

no harm done, bro
(i just didn't want to derail, for which i am famous haha!)

 

[notmyown]

Given this truth I also agree with "notmyown" that young Christians can easily take grace as a concept instead of the very life and essence of our Lord. The concept of grace ahs no power to manifest the exchanged life in Christ that is ours in our new creation - our inner person created in righteousness and holiness.

you're a kind man.
(it's just me... ellie lol)

i think of the words of Steven Curtis Chapman...

"If the truth was known you'd see that the only good in me is Jesus" ♥

 

[mailmandan]

If it's by works then we are all doomed because we all fall short of absolute perfection.

2 Timothy 1:9 - He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purposeand grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity.

Romans 11:6 - But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

 

[Grace777x70]

you're a kind man.
(it's just me... ellie lol)

i think of the words of Steven Curtis Chapman...

"If the truth was known you'd see that the only good in me is Jesus" ♥

I know who you are "mom"......and I know all about your eyes too.. ( you do not have the sour puss face as in this pic... as this is not an exact representation of you....just the eyes in the back of your head.)

 

[BeyondET]

I'm at work doing my work orders, having fellowship here at CC, reading Grace quotes, I'm happy today lol

 

[notmyown]

I know who you are "mom"......and I know all about your eyes too..

lol! change of user name... just hoping to remind myself Whose i am... hoping my posts might reflect that.

 

[MikeHenderson]

Again people are teaching Salvation by Works.

Ephesians 2:8
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God

Its by Grace we have been saved. Therefore its only by losing Grace we lose our Salvation. Nowhere in this verse does God say we keep our Salvation by works like the Tares teach.

The Grace is from God. He gives us the Grace needed to receive Salvation and He gives us the Grace needed to keep our Salvation.

It seems like a lot of people cannot move past this issue. There is more to the Christian life then receiving Salvation. There is Justification and Sanctification also. By the Grace from God we receive Salvation. By receiving Jesus as our Lord and Savior we become Justified. Its by our Good Works that we become Sanctified. James 2 is talking about doing good works for our Sanctification, not for our Salvation.

Its our Rewards in Heaven that depend upon our good works, not our Salvation. And yes you do have to work for your Rewards in Heaven.

Romans 6:19-22
[SUP]19 [/SUP]I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.

Its our Sanctification we work for, not our Salvation. We are to stop sinning for our Sanctification.

I hope this helps you in your walk with Jesus.

 

[notmyown]

Again people are teaching Salvation by Works.

that was a good post! i wonder who do you think it is doing that?

 

[Born_Again]

OK so there is soooo many HEATED discussions going on about grace/works... I'm not no bible scholar I don't want to argue doctrine but I want to share a few things that I pray will bear witness to the spirit in you..

Ephesians 2:8 (amp) For it is by free grace (God's unmerited favour) that you are saved (delivered from judgement and made partakers of Christ's salvation) through your faith. And this salvation is not of yourselves (of your own doing, it came not through your own striving ) but it is a gift from God.

This verse alone (no others are needed) clarify 's that we are saved by the gift of God which is grace... So, if we are saved by grace through faith surely that had to be the foundation of everything ? Grace has to be the beginning of everything ? Is this a daily thing for me or is saved past tense ? Notice it doesn't say I will save you daily through grace it says you are saved..

Now personally for me I don't have to read these scriptures to know that's true.. The scriptures bring confirmation to the reality of grace in my life... I can honestly hold my hands up and say I have done NOTHING but say Father HELP ME! That's it... If where I am today wasn't for the grace of God then there would be no here I am today.. Like why aren't I on crack now? Why aren't I a hooker? Why aren't I on anti psychotics ? How on earth can I care for a child the way that I do ? Man, how am I even alive to write this ??? This is the reality of grace in my life.. Not because of anything I have done...

Yes we can argue obedience, But honestly without grace obedience is impossible.. It's only because of what he did can we do.. Are we to obey the word of God. Of course we are.. How ?? Through grace.. We have to have the understanding that without grace we can do nothing.. It's impossible to not be fornicators, it's impossible to not covet, it's impossible to not be angry.. That's who we were.. Our nature as sinners.. But now Praise God we have a new nature.. We are the righteousness of God in Chris Jesus.. All because of Love.. Grace Grace Grace is everything..

No words or scripture can move me from this truth that I know.. Not because of head knowledge but because I am a walking miracle.

No opposition here! Great post! Well put, Jenna.

 

[BeyondET]

Hey by the way Goodmorning to all, sorry I love music I can't help but to post one for everyone ....

[video=youtube;y8YkVx-36eY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8YkVx-36eY[/video]

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Some powerful powerful posts on this thread... Please keep it flowing in the unity we have here.. If anything opposes that then ignore it

Thank you so much dear sis for opening a thread on grace not to argue, but to share your testimony and how it affected you.. There is no greater teacher than experience..