If Perchance Catholicism Is Mistaken

[GKChesterton]

So, let me get this right.... You think the disciples who are saints were devils ?

 

[Jackson123]

When you define the word apostle without adding other meaning .Its easy to see there is no such thing as "apostolic authority" or "apostolic time period". Time period of apostles.

Abel was the first apostle, sent one, also the first martyr. Died because of the words he was sent with . . . the testimony of God . Kill the messenger kill the message. Out of sight out of mind. The pagan form of religion, or religion of the fathers as a law of men .

Catholisicim like many false doctrines they simply add new meaning in order to keep the non venerable ones from seeking the approval of God according to his loving commandment.... making it without effect. . We are warned of those what say we must have man seen to teach us. the MO of the antichrist .

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.1 John 2:26 -27

In him not in men .

Yep, I use to be a member of Indonesian bible study online, one catholic member claim to able to communicate with one of the saint.

I know statue not able to communicate with human, but devil in the statue that pretend to be a saint do.

 

[Jackson123]

So, let me get this right.... You think the disciples who are saints were devils ?

My friend, disciple are not devil, but they are physically die and not able to talk to us anymore.

If Paul still able to talk to us, I Will ask him to preach in my church every sunday

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Catholic Church is run by men, not God, so it will sometimes be mistaken and those who run it, being men, will sometimes sin. Sins may be great or small, and so may mistakes.

No one should minimize the serious spiritual damage that the Catholic Church has inflicted on millions of people. That Church has not been *sometimes mistaken* but constantly mistaken. And then the hierarchy have swept all the sins of the clergy under the rug. Any honest Catholic would walk away from this travesty of Christianity, with all kinds of superstitions attached to it.

Also, the pronouncements of the pope (ex cathedra) are supposed to be infallible, and he calls himself the vicar of Christ. So he has in fact taken the position of God. The priests can somehow magically convert "the host" into Christ, and also forgive sins. Again taking the place of God. None of this is authorized in Scripture.

 

[Heyjude]

When you define the word apostle without adding other meaning .Its easy to see there is no such thing as "apostolic authority" or "apostolic time period". Time period of apostles.

Abel was the first apostle, sent one, also the first martyr. Died because of the words he was sent with . . . the testimony of God . Kill the messenger kill the message. Out of sight out of mind. The pagan form of religion, or religion of the fathers as a law of men .

Catholisicim like many false doctrines they simply add new meaning in order to keep the non venerable ones from seeking the approval of God according to his loving commandment.... making it without effect. . We are warned of those what say we must have man seen to teach us. the MO of the antichrist .

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.1 John 2:26 -27

In him not in men .

In the context of the conversation we were having about "apostles" and "apostle authority" I was referring to Ambassadors of Christ. A text taken out of context is a pretext and Dan and I were talking about NT writings and not about the OT or Adam, and were showing how some of the early writings, especially the Gospel of Thomas contradicts those who had the Testimony with them.

 

[notuptome]

The Catholics that I know are generally very open and receptive to learning about the history of the Bible.

The good friend that I mentioned earlier on this thread who grew up Pentecostal and ended up joining the Eastern Orthodox Church, the thing that started the whole process was basically learning about the history of the Bible.

Anyways, my offer still stands. Let me know if you change your mind.

Wicked men of evil devices will always be open and receptive to learning anything that will allow themselves to circumvent the truth of Gods word. God has declared that His word will endure forever.

Men do not leave the truth unless they are dishonest with themselves.

God wrote the bible. Men wrote the history of the bible. If the history of the bible were a major deciding factor then Judaism would be the religion of truth in the world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[TMS]

Like all denominations there are good and bad people in each. There are a lot of really nice Catholics that are ignorant to the truth and God will judge us all.
I believe the fault with Catholicism is that they put mans authority above the word of God. Tradition vs the Bible. They choose traditions and say God has given them the right to change what the word plainly states.

 

[GKChesterton]

I'm very very sad indeed to see the way people here are drawing battle lines and using God as a reason to fight.
I'm connected to God before any church or particular sect, and I don't think we should be forming these political divisions, which are about ego and earthly rivalries.
I wish I knew what to say about it, but I feel that it's wrong.

 

[Dan_473]

The definition of stealing is


steal
/stēl/
verb
1.
take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.
"thieves stole her bicycle"

If one take another person property without permission or legal right .....is stealing

If one bow unto statue is bowing.

How you interprate bowing not bow unto?

Why Pope or catholic bow unto statue? What is the benefide of bowing unto statue?

God forbid bowing unto statue

If what pope do you not call It bow unto than what is bow unto look like, give me Example bow unto in a picture.

Well, did you understand what I wrote here?

"Some people say government taxation is theft, some people say private property is theft."

Are you following what I'm saying about how different people have different ideas about stealing?

 

[notuptome]

I'm very very sad indeed to see the way people here are drawing battle lines and using God as a reason to fight.
I'm connected to God before any church or particular sect, and I don't think we should be forming these political divisions, which are about ego and earthly rivalries.
I wish I knew what to say about it, but I feel that it's wrong.

Good people or bad people is not relevant. All men are bad until they are born again by Christ. There are only saved people and unsaved people. We must judge by the word of God the bible and not our flawed human standards.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

In the context of the conversation we were having about "apostles" and "apostle authority" I was referring to Ambassadors of Christ. A text taken out of context is a pretext and Dan and I were talking about NT writings and not about the OT or Adam, and were showing how some of the early writings, especially the Gospel of Thomas contradicts those who had the Testimony with them.

Hi thanks.

Sorry. I thought you were attributing it to the apostles as in Catholicism.

I would suggest the Gospel of Thomas contradicts the word of God's testimony. His two witnesses. . the law and the prophets (sola scriptura)

 

[garee]

Well, did you understand what I wrote here?

"Some people say government taxation is theft, some people say private property is theft."

Are you following what I'm saying about how different people have different ideas about stealing?

Yes, but what would it have to do with using teraphims to put a face on what Catholic must call patron saint when seeking the help of disembodied spirits. They are called workers with familiar spirits a in the bible and we are warned not to serve then as a source of faith (the unseen ) .One manner our father in heaven.

I believe all 3500 ( the Legion) and rising are available to purchase . some server dual purposes . or more than one can be used for the same .

A common one is what is called a Saint Christopher medallion or statue.... the protecting god of travel. Or the use of counting beads (rosary) to promote the ideology of a Queen mother of heaven . The whole list of workers with familiar spirit gods is available and rising picking up speed .

 

[GKChesterton]

I'm going to say something very harsh. I've thought it through a lot and I hesitate to be confrontational if that's what it is, but it must be said.

People who thump the table and insist on their own conclusions being the definitive version of God's will ,then rebuking those who dissent or question their perfect thinking are just another kind of blasphemy.

They seek not only to judge man, but to judge God himself. They are no more capable of understanding what God knows than I am. They attack the Catholic Church for example, thinking that they know better than millions and millions of people who have sought salvation through it, and somehow imagining that their own thinking upon the matter is vastly superior to generations of learned and Godly scholars .

I'm not here to represent the Catholic Church particularly by the way and there are many aspects of it which could be discussed and questioned, but this very extreme vilification and condemnation of so many other Christians is plainly horrible.

The way some seem to go on about this reminds me of the worst secularist despots who say such similar things about Christianity in general.

I feel very sad indeed to read it here.

 

[Lightskin]

I'm going to say something very harsh. I've thought it through a lot and I hesitate to be confrontational if that's what it is, but it must be said.

People who thump the table and insist on their own conclusions being the definitive version of God's will ,then rebuking those who dissent or question their perfect thinking are just another kind of blasphemy.

They seek not only to judge man, but to judge God himself. They are no more capable of understanding what God knows than I am. They attack the Catholic Church for example, thinking that they know better than millions and millions of people who have sought salvation through it, and somehow imagining that their own thinking upon the matter is vastly superior to generations of learned and Godly scholars .

I'm not here to represent the Catholic Church particularly by the way and there are many aspects of it which could be discussed and questioned, but this very extreme vilification and condemnation of so many other Christians is plainly horrible.

The way some seem to go on about this reminds me of the worst secularist despots who say such similar things about Christianity in general.

I feel very sad indeed to read it here.

I despise the Catholic Church for instilling unwarranted guilt, fear and uncertainty upon countless people. I try sharing the love of God and His saving grace with many Catholics and they look at me like I have three heads. My heart breaks for those people. That said, if you have peace within the Catholic Church and proclaim Jesus as Lord and Savior then I am happy for you.

 

[CS1]

.
My eldest brother (for convenience sake, call him Larry) was ordained to the
priesthood in 1965 and remained so for 53 years prior to passing away at
the age of 78 in May of 2018.

Larry graduated from the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome. He taught
at the University of San Diego and has served in parishes in San Diego,
Mexico, Portland, the Tohono O'odham Indian Reservation, and Huntington
Beach. Larry served as the Director of Pastoral Ministry and the first Rector
of the Conventual Church of Our Lady of the Angels at the Franciscan
Renewal Center, Scottsdale, Arizona.

In 1973, he served at University of San Diego as an Assistant Professor of
Religious Studies in the College of Arts and Sciences. Larry then served as
the University Chaplain and Director of Campus Ministry from September
1974 until June 1984.

Larry entered the Franciscan Order to become a Friar in 1987 after serving
as a priest of the Diocese of San Diego for 22 years. During his semi
retirement years, Larry, he was a priest at the Mission San Luis Rey in
Oceanside, California.

Supposing Rome's version of Christianity is mistaken? (This is only a
hypothetical question; I'm not alleging Rome is mistaken.) The ramifications
of that would be too awful to contemplate. It would mean that my deceased
brother is right now, this very moment, in Hell regardless of the quality and
the extent of his devotion to The Church. It would also mean that my
brother was a minister of darkness rather than light; thus everyone he
influenced was led down a path leading directly to the lake of brimstone
depicted at Rev 20:11-15 where they would be facing a mode of death akin
to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

I can only imagine the crushing, unspeakable dismay that my brother would
undergo were it to turn out that all the while he sincerely believed himself
serving Christ's best interests, he was actually serving the Devil's.
_

Very distinguished resume of your brother. however, Rome is wrong God is not. No one can say that your brother is in hell or should say we do not know. The word of God says that Faith in the Lord Jesus christ is until salvation. people do not go to hell because of sin. They go to hell because they did not Believe and have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ John 3:16-18 Jesus is the only way to salvation not Rome catholics , or baptist or pentecostal Jesus is the only way. FYI there are many catholics whom I have met who have asked Jesus to come into their hearts an Beleive Jesus is the only answer.

 

[Jackson123]

Well, did you understand what I wrote here?

"Some people say government taxation is theft, some people say private property is theft."

Are you following what I'm saying about how different people have different ideas about stealing?

You try to define is taxation Theft.



That is big different subject with is taking other property without permission or legal reason thieft?


If you say pope oN the picture that bow infront of statue, not bow unto than what is bow unto look like?

 

[notuptome]

I'm going to say something very harsh. I've thought it through a lot and I hesitate to be confrontational if that's what it is, but it must be said.

People who thump the table and insist on their own conclusions being the definitive version of God's will ,then rebuking those who dissent or question their perfect thinking are just another kind of blasphemy.

They seek not only to judge man, but to judge God himself. They are no more capable of understanding what God knows than I am. They attack the Catholic Church for example, thinking that they know better than millions and millions of people who have sought salvation through it, and somehow imagining that their own thinking upon the matter is vastly superior to generations of learned and Godly scholars .

I'm not here to represent the Catholic Church particularly by the way and there are many aspects of it which could be discussed and questioned, but this very extreme vilification and condemnation of so many other Christians is plainly horrible.

The way some seem to go on about this reminds me of the worst secularist despots who say such similar things about Christianity in general.

I feel very sad indeed to read it here.

Sounds like you are getting the message of truth. Sad hardly describes the horrors of Rome leading millions and millions of souls into destruction while withholding the truth of the gospel.

Don't blame the messengers. There is no joy in exposing Rome's false gospel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[GKChesterton]

Very distinguished resume of your brother. however, Rome is wrong God is not. No one can say that your brother is in hell or should say we do not know. The word of God says that Faith in the Lord Jesus christ is until salvation. people do not go to hell because of sin. They go to hell because they did not Believe and have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ John 3:16-18 Jesus is the only way to salvation not Rome catholics , or baptist or pentecostal Jesus is the only way. FYI there are many catholics whom I have met who have asked Jesus to come into their hearts an Beleive Jesus is the only answer.

I don't see what the contradiction is there actually.
Tell me, have I misunderstood this forum ?
Is it just for some local variety of Protestantism ?
I thought it was for Christians generally, and I kind of expected a bit more love and humility all round.

Am I just on the wrong message thread, or are people here generally angry with each other ...... I don't mean to be presumptuous when I only just joined but I'm genuinely confused.

You know, some Catholics are just as bigoted against Protestants as vice versa and in many times and places that's resulted in war and persecution.

I wish I was as certain as some here about the mind of God - well I don't really because that's a terrible sin of pride - I'm still learning though, as we all are in reality. One thing I'm pretty certain about though is that He doesn't want anyone to be horrible or cruel to their brothers over their views of Christianity.

Our Lord Jesus Christ told us to love our neighbours, and to understand as a child would .
A child listens and learns. I believe that we should do this and respect the earnestly held beliefs of others as long as they're not overtly sinful.

We all make mistakes and the answer to that is prayer and discussion.

Anyway, as I said above, if I've inadvertently walked into a sectarian forum, would someone just tell me that.

 

[Jackson123]

I'm very very sad indeed to see the way people here are drawing battle lines and using God as a reason to fight.
I'm connected to God before any church or particular sect, and I don't think we should be forming these political divisions, which are about ego and earthly rivalries.
I wish I knew what to say about it, but I feel that it's wrong.

If we know other walking toward the abyss, do we not love them and try to stop them?

You think people that try to stop people from hell is hatred and people that do not care other go to hell is love.

 

[GKChesterton]

If we know other walking toward the abyss, do we not love them and try to stop them?

You think people that try to stop people from hell is hatred and people that do not care other go to hell is love.

No, I didn't say hatred.
I just suggested a less bombastic approach. Of course we must advocate what we believe to be the true word