If sin is not imputed without the law, how can some claim that babies and children die because Adam's sin is imputed to them?

[sawdust]

If we live and move and have our being in God, and God is omnipresent, there is no way God can separate from us. However, our perception can be that we are separated from God, and we can blame God for that separation by claiming that He has judged us and separated from us.

I disagree. You can't have it both ways. Either sin separates us and God's word stands or it doesn't matter what God says because it doesn't apply.

As far as I am concerned, you confuse the common grace of God necessary for His creation to exist (Matthew 5:45) and the grace needed for a relationship with Him (Titus 2:11).

 

[sawdust]

I disagree. You can't have it both ways. Either sin separates us and God's word stands or it doesn't matter what God says because it doesn't apply.

As far as I am concerned, you confuse the common grace of God necessary for His creation to exist (Matthew 5:45) and the grace needed for a relationship with Him (Titus 2:11).

@PaulThomson

I should have also said which I did point out before, the reason we are not wholly separate from God is because of the Cross. There can be no reconciliation apart from the Cross.

 

[sawdust]

Lamentations 3:22
Through the Lord’s mercies we are not consumed, Because His compassions fail not.

 

[PaulThomson]

I disagree. You can't have it both ways. Either sin separates us and God's word stands or it doesn't matter what God says because it doesn't apply.

As far as I am concerned, you confuse the common grace of God necessary for His creation to exist (Matthew 5:45) and the grace needed for a relationship with Him (Titus 2:11).

What is ir when we love our enemies. Our enemies from their perspective have separated themselves from us; but we choose to remain friends to those who hate us. I can have it both ways.

The Bible does not distinguish divide grace into common grace and the grace needed for x, y or z. That would be like saying there is a common electricity that powers most people's homes, but there's a special electricity needed to power Christian homes. It's all God's grace. What is at issue is what we will allow His grace to do in us. That varies between people, just as the appliances and machinery people choose to plug in to the same electricity varies.

 

[lrs68]

Adam's SIN judgement clause is that every human born is born to a natural state of existence.

God exists in a Supernatural state of existence.

So we are born into an existence that is different and separate from God because we are natural and God is Supernatural.

Becoming Saved corrects this separation.

 

[sawdust]

What is ir when we love our enemies. Our enemies from their perspective have separated themselves from us; but we choose to remain friends to those who hate us. I can have it both ways.

The Bible does not distinguish divide grace into common grace and the grace needed for x, y or z. That would be like saying there is a common electricity that powers most people's homes, but there's a special electricity needed to power Christian homes. It's all God's grace. What is at issue is what we will allow His grace to do in us. That varies between people, just as the appliances and machinery people choose to plug in to the same electricity varies.

The Bible also makes it clear that sin leads to death (separation) but thanks to God's mercy we are saved from that because of the Cross. You simply cannot have reconciliation without the Cross no matter what your perspective is.

If the Lamb had not been slain from the foundation of the world we all would have been consumed in eternal death because God must keep His word.

 

[sawdust]

The Bible does not distinguish divide grace into common grace and the grace needed for x, y or z.

There is a distinction made in the levels of grace given.

James 4:6
But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.”

 

[PaulThomson]

There is a distinction made in the levels of grace given.

James 4:6
But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.”

Different amounts of grace, different effects of grace, not different kinds of grace.

 

[sawdust]

Different amounts of grace, different effects of grace, not different kinds of grace.

And you don't differentiate.

 

[TMS]

Grace
Grace can involve understanding and accepting others without judgment, offering compassion and forgiveness, and not holding onto grudges or anger.
It can also mean proactively accepting others for who they are, without expecting them to conform to a certain ideal.

God is graceful towards us because God accepts us as sinners and is willing to help us and forgive us.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

By God's grace we are able to wake up each day and do anything good. It is God's grace that allows us to live and do anything.

The law or the word or the principle that God stated from the start was that ....

SIN = DEATH. Both physical and Spiritual death.

The tree of life was guarded after sin because eating its fruit would sustain physical life which would mean sin was able to live forever.

God has given sin 6000 years to show its true fruits. And I think everyone can agree that it is not desirable.

So by grace God has given us an opportunity to be part of the new world.

The world were sin is no more.

Rom 8:22-24
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. 23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. 24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

But grace is not an excuse to sin.

God will judge us and those that used God's grace to continue in sin will not be saved.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

By God's grace, through faith, we can be obedient and need to be obedient.

Rom 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

By grace we establish the law in our hearts.

 

[Mem]

I have to put up with all y'alls annoying sins as much as you have to suffer with mine.
That is, until that glorious day when the cause of sin is completely dealt with, unbelief.
And, while considering the truth that the cross deals with 'all the sins of the world,' then I have to ask that, while unbelief is the root of all sin, is unbelief in itself a sin?
It seems to me that it must either not in itself be considered sin (if the cross does not atone for it) or it is, indeed, the 'unforgiveable' sin.

And this thought segways into the concept of choice, free will, which is not sin as much as a conduit through which sin comes and, at least I would think, possesses enough merit that God does not will that it is dismissed entirely from the 'nature' of man, where the will is spiritual and the action (ideally anyway) would naturally follow (notwithstanding the struggle b/w).

This appears to be the crux of how a righteous God remains so in 'sending people to hell even though all their sins are forgiven' by honoring one's personal choice of unbelief, as an entirely 'unrighteous' choice. He is righteous in allowing us one, if only one, freewill choice of our own.