If The Kingdom isn't here yet then what is JESUS CHRIST a King of?

[Rondonmon]

I'm still mulling over all of this. I agree that a figurative 1000 years is a fitting interpretation, and I agree that the time for salvation is now. But I found the use of imagery interesting in the parables and in Psalm 90:4 and it led me to wonder if there was something more that was being said through the references to darkness and night. I presented an interpretation based on an interesting synergy that seems to have different passages all describing parts of the same thing. I presented it more as a tentative musing rather than a tried and tested interpretation. I've read Revelation plenty of times but I still don't consider myself well read on Revelation. I look forward to corrections and insight from my brothers and sisters here.

I like the nature of your premise: an eternal king must have an eternal kingdom and therefore the timeless/eternal kingdom is always present. It is a solid premise. But as a king of kings and therefore a ruler of many kingdoms, other temporal kingdoms may be referenced in some of the passages especially if some kingdoms might exist as a staging ground or proving ground (purification) leading to the eternal kingdom. Scripture tells us that earth and heaven fade away and this may be an indication of their temporal nature. So when the parable of the ten virgins references the kingdom of heaven, it is perhaps speaking about the kingdom of heaven as a kind of temporal kingdom. I don't think that necessarily takes away from the message of the eternal kingdom in itself if that were the case. I'm still contemplating this. Thank you for your reply.

I was only describing the way God describes time in juxtaposition to Him, and us on earth. Since Jesus is described as ruling ON EARTH for 1000 years, that time would have to be calibrated in our time, thus the 1000 years is in real earth/universe time, and thus it is not symbolic, but a real 1000 year reign. The point thus was God was describing unto us on earth how OUR TIME relates unto Him.

I will give you a huge hint/clue. There is a reason Atheists always say well if God created everything, who created God? Because they can't explain away the fact that everything must come from something, and thus if they can say someone had to create God then they can confuses the masses. But I always crush them.

God is not from our Universe, He is from outside our Universe and its TIME CONSTRAINTS, thus He has no need of ever having been created, He is eternal, only things crated in this Universe and thus under our Laws of Nature are mandated to have been created. God is from outside our Universe.

 

[pottersclay]

This scripture ends the debate:

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And what is that regeneration?

 

[pottersclay]

A thousand yr is as one day, one day as a thousand years.
The second coming is called the day of the Lord.

you do the math.😯😯

 

[pittsburghjoe]

And what is that regeneration?

The end of premillennialism. It just combined the beginning and end of your 1000 years.

Why don't we combine all this by saying The Kingdom of The Body of CHRIST is New Jerusalem? The Bride. Being a Citizen of The Kingdom means you have Eternal Life. What more do we have to say about JESUS being a King if He Ascended and fills all things?

Ephesians 4:10
He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

1 Samuel 2:8: "He raises the poor from the dust, He lifts the needy from the ash heap To make them sit with nobles, And inherit a seat of honor; For the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, And He set the world on them.

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Revelation 21:9-10
...Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

 

[Evmur]

Hi Brother, we have the Kingdom of God now thru the Holy Spirit and when HE Comes and FOREVER - Amen

Jesus Christ is Lord of both Heaven and Earth, we KNOW He is manifestly Lord of Heaven, our job is to manifest His Lordship of Earth ... how are we doing?

"... Thy will be done on EARTH as it is in Heaven..."

 

[DavidTree]

A thousand yr is as one day, one day as a thousand years.
The second coming is called the day of the Lord.

you do the math.😯😯

So you think it is one, 24 hour earth time, day???

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Does this not mean anything?

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 

[DavidTree]

Does this not mean anything?

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

For 1,000, actual, Years.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Revelation ch20

 

[pittsburghjoe]

For 1,000, actual, Years.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them.
Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Revelation ch20

What part of 2 Timothy 2:12 makes you think it means after The Return?

How are we not reigning now as martyrs and priests (Revelation 20:6) if 2 Timothy 2:12 and 1 Peter 2:9 say we are ("If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:", "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation")?

 

[DavidTree]

What part of 2 Timothy 2:12 makes you think it means after The Return?

How are we not reigning now as martyrs and priests (Revelation 20:6) if 2 Timothy 2:12 and 1 Peter 2:9 say we are ("If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:", "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation")?

God laid out for us, as a BluePrint(Blue/ABOVE & Print/His Son) His Word beginning in Genesis and finishing with Revelation.

All Scripture is incorporated with the Vision, Hope and Purpose of our Calling.

In our spirits, we are now seated with Christ at the Right Hand of God, by which we are in His Kingdom which consists of kings and priests unto our God.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:6

While here on earth we are in a fight with the ruling principalities of this world.

To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
Therefore I ask that you do not lose heart at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. Eph ch3

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Eph ch6

While on this earth in these "tents" of flesh we wait for His Coming and the RESURRECTION into Immortal Bodies.

and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come. 1 Thess 1:10

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have [d]fallen asleep. 21For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

 

[pittsburghjoe]

God laid out for us, as a BluePrint(Blue/ABOVE & Print/His Son) His Word beginning in Genesis and finishing with Revelation.

All Scripture is incorporated with the Vision, Hope and Purpose of our Calling.

In our spirits, we are now seated with Christ at the Right Hand of God, by which we are in His Kingdom which consists of kings and priests unto our God.

To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:6

While here on earth we are in a fight with the ruling principalities of this world.

To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
Therefore I ask that you do not lose heart at my tribulations for you, which is your glory. Eph ch3

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Eph ch6

While on this earth in these "tents" of flesh we wait for His Coming and the RESURRECTION into Immortal Bodies.

and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come. 1 Thess 1:10

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.

But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have [d]fallen asleep. 21For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

So, we are not reigning now because satan can still whisper in your ear? satan is bound from deceiving the nations ...not individuals.

 

[DavidTree]

So, we are not reigning now because satan can still whisper in your ear? satan is bound from deceiving the nations ...not individuals.

Who told you satan is bound from deceiving the nations?

Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels.
And the great dragon was hurled down—
that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world.
He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
Rev 12

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter ch5

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. 1 John ch1

We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
21Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1 John ch5

 

[pittsburghjoe]

Who told you satan is bound from deceiving the nations?

Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels.
And the great dragon was hurled down—
that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world.
He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
Rev 12

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are experienced by your brotherhood in the world. But may the God of all grace, who called us to His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after you have suffered a while, perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle you. To Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter ch5

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. 1 John ch1

We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
20And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
21Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1 John ch5

Rev 20:7 -8
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

[DavidTree]

Rev 20:7 -8
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

#1. satan is not in prison now
#2. satan will not be locked up until the Second Coming of Christ

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh. Rev 19

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. Rev ch 20

 

[pittsburghjoe]

#1. satan is not in prison now
#2. satan will not be locked up until the Second Coming of Christ

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh. Rev 19

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. Rev ch 20

The debate has been ended with this anyways:

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

//The regeneration happens as He sits in The Throne …it doesn’t say, oh by they way, there is a thousand years.

You can't have a Millennium Reign after The Return that starts with a First Resurrection and ends with a Second Resurrection anymore.

You can't have a Millennium Reign after Earth was regenerated.

 

[John146]

What part of 2 Timothy 2:12 makes you think it means after The Return?

How are we not reigning now as martyrs and priests (Revelation 20:6) if 2 Timothy 2:12 and 1 Peter 2:9 say we are ("If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:", "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation")?

1 Peter 2:9 is concerning the nation of Israel at the return of Christ. 2 Timothy passage is concerning the body of Christ. If we suffer, we shall also reign with the Lord on earth. If we deny Him, He will deny us the privilege to reign with Him on earth.

 

[DavidTree]

The debate has been ended with this anyways:

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

//The regeneration happens as He sits in The Throne …it doesn’t say, oh by they way, there is a thousand years.

You can't have a Millennium Reign after The Return that starts with a First Resurrection and ends with a Second Resurrection anymore.

You can't have a Millennium Reign after Earth was regenerated.

Isolating a single scripture usually leads to misinterpretations.
There has been 2,000 years of misinterpretations of Scripture.

Follow this Eternal Commandment for the beginning process of understanding = Deut 4:1-2 , Prov 30:5-6 , Rev 20:18-19

There never was and never is a 'debate' with God - only Truth.
Debates are for those who have not submitted to the Whole Scripture of God and believe it is up to interpretation from the intellect.

And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;
knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,
for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the Author of "It is written".

When we submit to "It is written", confusion and error will clear and the Dove brings the understanding.

It has been two thousand years since Christ's First Coming - we now eagerly wait for His Second Coming.

as it is written: "And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him, He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Hebrews 9:28

 

[DavidTree]

The debate has been ended with this anyways:

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

//The regeneration happens as He sits in The Throne …it doesn’t say, oh by they way, there is a thousand years.

You can't have a Millennium Reign after The Return that starts with a First Resurrection and ends with a Second Resurrection anymore.

You can't have a Millennium Reign after Earth was regenerated.

The regeneration of Matthew 19:28 will not take place until His Second Coming, which the Scripture speaks of in the Gospels, the Apostles and the Prophets.

You cannot have a regeneration until His Coming and satan is bound and locked up = Revelation 20:3

And he threw him/satan into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him,
so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete.

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge - Rev 20:4
fulfillment of Matthew 19:28

 

[John146]

The regeneration of Matthew 19:28 will not take place until His Second Coming, which the Scripture speaks of in the Gospels, the Apostles and the Prophets.

You cannot have a regeneration until His Coming and satan is bound and locked up = Revelation 20:3

And he threw him/satan into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him,
so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete.

Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge - Rev 20:4
fulfillment of Matthew 19:28

Agreed.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

 

[DavidTree]

1 Peter 2:9 is concerning the nation of Israel at the return of Christ. 2 Timothy passage is concerning the body of Christ. If we suffer, we shall also reign with the Lord on earth. If we deny Him, He will deny us the privilege to reign with Him on earth.

Falsehood = 1 Peter 2:9 "is concerning the nation of Israel at the return of Christ."

1 Peter 2:9 is speaking of the Body of Christ right now

But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God’s own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

Grace and peace to you from Him who is and was and is to come, and from the seven Spirits before His throne, and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood, who has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and power forever and ever! Amen. Rev 1:4-6