If we are going to keep the SABBATH the 7th day, in HEAVEN, Why are not people keeping it now ???

[UnitedWithChrist]

2 COR. 6 [16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. [17] Wherefore come out from among them, and BE YE SEPARATE, saith the Lord, AND TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING; and I will receive you, [18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

This NEW COVENANT scripture tells us as believers we are not to touch the unclean thing.

ISAIAH 52 [9] Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath REDEEMED Jerusalem. [10] The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the SALVATION of our God. [11] Depart ye, depart ye, GO YE OUT from thence, TOUCH NO UNCLEAN THING; GO YE OUT OF THE MIDST OF HER; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the Lord. [12] For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the Lord will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rereward.

Redeemed. Salvation. Words you would find in the new testament concerning Jesus. And as is always the case, you will find whats being said in the new testament has already been said in the old or prophecied.

LEVITICUS 20 [22] Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out. [23] And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. [24] But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD, WHICH HAVE SEPARATED YOU from other people. [25] YE SHALL THEREFORE PUT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CLEAN BEASTS AND UNCLEAN, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. [26] And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the Lord am holy, and have severed you from other people, THAT YE SHOULD BE MINE.

Be ye separate.

DEUT. 14 [8] And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, IT IS UNCLEAN unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

Everywhere theres lots of piggies living piggy lives.......

ISAIAH 66 [15] For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. [16] For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many. [17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINE'S FLESH, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

The very bottom line. The above scripture is speaking of the “Day of the Lord”. Whats prophecied about that day will come to pass as written. Like it or not

Days were shadows pointing to Jesus Christ.

Now that he is here, believers don't need the shadow. They have the reality.

Read Colossians 2:16-17. Jesus is the "substance" that the shadow pointed to.

When a man walks down a hall, in the right lighting, he casts a shadow before him. His child, who is in the room he is walking toward, notices the form of the shadow. It has no details but he/she knows the shadow belongs to her father.

Now, when the father appears in the room, will she run over to the shadow, fall down on the floor, kissing it, and try to hug it? Or, will she run to her father, who is the substance behind the shadow, and embrace him?

I really don't have an issue if someone prefers to observe Saturday, but invariably MANY of these guys are Judaizers who are judging others for observing the LORD's day.

If someone wants to understand what Colossians 2:16-17 is talking about, and how it relates to the ceremonial law, compare these:

Colossians 2:16-17
Hebrews 10:1-4
Hebrews 9:9-11

Note, though, that Judaizers will often deny that Colossians 2:16-17 is talking about the Sabbath, but it most certainly is. The pattern escalates in a daily, monthly, annually pattern, or the reverse order, in this Scripture.

Please realize, too, that the "unclean thing", in the original context, is talking about anything that is unclean, not just forbidden meat. There are all kinds of clean/unclean laws. The Judaizer rarely pays attention to those, though...he fixates on meat laws, and ignores that there are many other unclean laws. In fact, even within the meat laws, he will ignore part of the commandments and keep others. For example, if an unclean animal touched a cooking utensil (or stove), the Israelite was to destroy this utensil (or stove).

When I began to realize that the Judaizers who taught me were false teachers, I was amazed how much inconsistency there was..

For instance, Deuteronomy 16:16 says that the festivals must be kept in the place God chooses (Jerusalem). Well, virtually no Judaizer keeps the festivals in Jerusalem. Nor do they keep them in tabernacles or tents made of the required materials. Their interpretation is that they can keep them wherever they want, and often they stay in a hotel room or something along that line. They don't observe Torah, no matter how much they claim they do. They are self-deceived fakes.

Now, if they wanted to observe the days, and didn't judge others, evangelical Christianity should have no problem with it, but that's what they do...in fact, judging is one of their favorite pasttimes. The Judaizer cult I belonged to would ridicule other Christians and talk about how stupid they are...they would mock their speaking styles, and accuse them of being immoral.

See, for the Judaizer, he is a professional judge. He thinks God has appointed him to accuse others. Days and diet are one of the easiest things to accuse people about. If he tried to accuse them of being prideful, he would have a hard time doing that, because he himself is overwhelmed with pride. No, days and diet are the thing that he likes to accuse folks about....not pride or self righteousness. Too risky.

 

[Wall]

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

UWC uses passage above to claim we need not keep Gods sabbath day and that God changed His mind and its OK now to eat the piggies. Can his doctrines be found in the scriptures by looking at the followers of the RISEN Christ?

ACTS 18 [20] When they desired him to tarry longer time with them, he consented not; [21] But bade them farewell, saying, I MUST BY ALL MEANS KEEP THIS FEAST THAT COMETH IN JERUSALEM: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Not here. Here we find Paul keeping one of the feast days in Jersalem long after Christ had been crucified

1 COR. 5 [6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? [7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [8] THEREFORE LET US KEEP THE FEAST, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This also is after Christ had risen. They were still keeping the Feast of unleavened bread but not as they did before. Before Christ there was to be no leven in the house. After Christ was crucified the laws contained in the ordinances were nailed to the cross. So have yourself a peanut butter and jelly.

ACTS 17 [2] AND PAUL, AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Not here either. Paul as his manner was... still keeping the sabbath

ACTS 10 [11] And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: [12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. [13] And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. [14] BUT PETER SAID, NOT SO, LORD; FOR I HAVE NEVER EATEN ANY THING THAT IS COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

Once again, not here either. Peter refused to eat the unclean thing even after the risen Christ.

ACTS 10 [28] And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but GOD HATH SHEWED ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

Verse 28 explains the great sheet. No man is now unclean

JOEL 1 [13] Gird yourselves, and lament, YE PRIESTS: howl, YE MINISTERS of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for THE MEAT OFFERING AND THE DRINK OFFERING IS WITHHOLDEN FROM THE HOUSE OF YOUR GOD. [14] Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the Lord your God, and cry unto the Lord, [15] Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Don’t look good for some, come the Day of the Lord.

JOHN 6 [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

 

[Wall]

I would like to ask Wall one thing, though..suppose someone believes the Saturday Sabbath must be observed. What organization do you recommend? Also, do you believe annual festivals are to be observed?

Thats 2 things.

ACTS 17 [24] God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is LORD OF HEAVEN AND EARTH, DWELLETH NOT IN TEMPLES MADE WITH HANDS;

MARK 14 [57] And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,[58] We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I WILL BUILD ANOTHER MADE WITHOUT HANDS.

ZECH.6 [12] And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and HE SHALL BUILD THE TEMPLE of the LORD: [13] Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

PSA LM 127 [1] Except the LORD build the house, THEY LABOUR IN VAIN THAT BUILD IT: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

1COR.3 [16] Know ye not that YE ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?[17] If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2COR.6 16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.[17] Wherefore come out from among them, and BE YE SEPARATE, SAITH THE LORD, AND TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING; and I will receive you,[18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty

EPH.2 [19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;[21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:[22] In whom YE ALSO ARE BUILDED TOGETHER FOR AN HABITATION OF GOD THROUGH THE SPIRIT

 

[gb9]

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

UWC uses passage above to claim we need not keep Gods sabbath day and that God changed His mind and its OK now to eat the piggies. Can his doctrines be found in the scriptures by looking at the followers of the RISEN Christ?

ACTS 18 [20] When they desired him to tarry longer time with them, he consented not; [21] But bade them farewell, saying, I MUST BY ALL MEANS KEEP THIS FEAST THAT COMETH IN JERUSALEM: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Not here. Here we find Paul keeping one of the feast days in Jersalem long after Christ had been crucified

1 COR. 5 [6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? [7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [8] THEREFORE LET US KEEP THE FEAST, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This also is after Christ had risen. They were still keeping the Feast of unleavened bread but not as they did before. Before Christ there was to be no leven in the house. After Christ was crucified the laws contained in the ordinances were nailed to the cross. So have yourself a peanut butter and jelly.

ACTS 17 [2] AND PAUL, AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Not here either. Paul as his manner was... still keeping the sabbath

ACTS 10 [11] And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: [12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. [13] And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. [14] BUT PETER SAID, NOT SO, LORD; FOR I HAVE NEVER EATEN ANY THING THAT IS COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

Once again, not here either. Peter refused to eat the unclean thing even after the risen Christ.

ACTS 10 [28] And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but GOD HATH SHEWED ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

Verse 28 explains the great sheet. No man is now unclean

JOEL 1 [13] Gird yourselves, and lament, YE PRIESTS: howl, YE MINISTERS of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for THE MEAT OFFERING AND THE DRINK OFFERING IS WITHHOLDEN FROM THE HOUSE OF YOUR GOD. [14] Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the Lord your God, and cry unto the Lord, [15] Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Don’t look good for some, come the Day of the Lord.

JOHN 6 [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

Jesus, Paul , Peter, and all the other apostles were jewish men, born under the Old Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant.

so, saying that they kept the Sabbath and the feasts is invalid to attempt to try to push the lie that gentiles are to keep the Sabbath , which they were never commanded to.

 

[lightbearer]

Days were shadows pointing to Jesus Christ.

Now that he is here, believers don't need the shadow. They have the reality.

Read Colossians 2:16-17. Jesus is the "substance" that the shadow pointed to.

When a man walks down a hall, in the right lighting, he casts a shadow before him. His child, who is in the room he is walking toward, notices the form of the shadow. It has no details but he/she knows the shadow belongs to her father.

Now, when the father appears in the room, will she run over to the shadow, fall down on the floor, kissing it, and try to hug it? Or, will she run to her father, who is the substance behind the shadow, and embrace him?

I really don't have an issue if someone prefers to observe Saturday, but invariably MANY of these guys are Judaizers who are judging others for observing the LORD's day.

If someone wants to understand what Colossians 2:16-17 is talking about, and how it relates to the ceremonial law, compare these:

Colossians 2:16-17
Hebrews 10:1-4
Hebrews 9:9-11

Note, though, that Judaizers will often deny that Colossians 2:16-17 is talking about the Sabbath, but it most certainly is. The pattern escalates in a daily, monthly, annually pattern, or the reverse order, in this Scripture.

Please realize, too, that the "unclean thing", in the original context, is talking about anything that is unclean, not just forbidden meat. There are all kinds of clean/unclean laws. The Judaizer rarely pays attention to those, though...he fixates on meat laws, and ignores that there are many other unclean laws. In fact, even within the meat laws, he will ignore part of the commandments and keep others. For example, if an unclean animal touched a cooking utensil (or stove), the Israelite was to destroy this utensil (or stove).

When I began to realize that the Judaizers who taught me were false teachers, I was amazed how much inconsistency there was..

For instance, Deuteronomy 16:16 says that the festivals must be kept in the place God chooses (Jerusalem). Well, virtually no Judaizer keeps the festivals in Jerusalem. Nor do they keep them in tabernacles or tents made of the required materials. Their interpretation is that they can keep them wherever they want, and often they stay in a hotel room or something along that line. They don't observe Torah, no matter how much they claim they do. They are self-deceived fakes.

Now, if they wanted to observe the days, and didn't judge others, evangelical Christianity should have no problem with it, but that's what they do...in fact, judging is one of their favorite pasttimes. The Judaizer cult I belonged to would ridicule other Christians and talk about how stupid they are...they would mock their speaking styles, and accuse them of being immoral.

See, for the Judaizer, he is a professional judge. He thinks God has appointed him to accuse others. Days and diet are one of the easiest things to accuse people about. If he tried to accuse them of being prideful, he would have a hard time doing that, because he himself is overwhelmed with pride. No, days and diet are the thing that he likes to accuse folks about....not pride or self righteousness. Too risky.

You are not saying anything in this post but making accusations and posting your opinion. Show me Col. 2:14-16 is speaking about the Sabbath of the Decalogue please.

 

[gb9]

You are not saying anything in this post but making accusations and posting your opinion. Show me Col. 2:14-16 is speaking about the Sabbath of the Decalogue please.

unitedwithchrist is very beautifully dismantling the judeaizer lies.


you guys would do well to not interact with him ( or her), you are being made to look silly.

 

[KhedetOrthos]

Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the SABBATH from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. [Blessed is the man, not just the Jews,] There is nothing in the BIBLE that changed the SABBATH, If it was HOLY then, it is HOLY NOW. sunday is a working day in the BIBLE, And is NOT HOLY at ALL,

Acts Chapter 15:

“The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:

The apostles and elders, your brothers,

To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.

24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their livesfor the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.

Farewell.

30 So the men were sent off and went down to Antioch, where they gathered the church together and delivered the letter. 31 The people read it and were glad for its encouraging message. 32 Judas and Silas, who themselves were prophets, said much to encourage and strengthen the believers.”

So enough of this Sabbath keeping nonsense. It is contrary to scripture.

 

[Wall]

Acts Chapter 15:

“The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23 With them they sent the following letter:

The apostles and elders, your brothers,

To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.

24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul— 26 men who have risked their livesfor the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols........

ACTS 15 [17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. [18] Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. [19] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among THE GENTILES are turned to God: [20] But that we write unto them, that THEY ABSTAIN FROM POLLUTIONS OF IDOLS, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

ACTS 15 as a whole was speaking as to whether gentiles needed to be circumcized or not.

ACTS 15 [4] And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. [5] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That IT WAS NEEDFUL TO CIRCUMCISE THEM, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

ACTS 15 [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, YE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Nothing to do with the 10 commandments. So lets look into what pollution of idols {V 20} is all about. Its there we find that we are to be keeping Gods sabbath day.

LEVITICUS 19 [3] Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and KEEP MY SABBATHS: I am the Lord your God. [4] TURN YE NOT UNTO IDOLS, NOR MAKE TO YOURSELVES MOLTEN GODS: I am the Lord your God.

LEVITICUS 26 [1]Ye shall MAKE YOU NO IDOLS NOR GRAVEN IMAGE, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God. [2] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

EZEKIEL 20 [16]Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, BUT POLLUTED MY SABBATHS: FOR THEIR HEART WENT AFTER THEIR IDOLS.

I don’t know what the connection might be as to why graven images and idols are a sign that you don’t keep Gods sabbath but if the WORD says so I believe it. We could have a debate on what an idol is but that would go nowhere but in circles. Does your church have any standing images? I know the churches that do keep the sabbath don’t have any standing images or crosses.

LEVITICUS 9 [2]And he said unto Aaron, Take thee a young calf for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering, without blemish, and offer them before the Lord.

Before Christ a young calf was used as a sin offering?

DEUT. 9 [16]And I looked, and, behold, ye had sinned against the Lord your God, and had made you a molten calf: ye had turned aside quickly out of the way which the Lord had commanded you.

And as Moses went up the mount to receive the 10 commandments the people below made a graven image that resembled that sin offering. They made a molten calf. God was not happy with these people. I wonder if some of them made the claim that it was not really a graven image, only a likeness of the sin offering. Now of course the crucified Jesus is our offering for sin.

 

[Wall]

Jesus, Paul , Peter, and all the other apostles were jewish men, born under the Old Covenant, the Mosaic Covenant.

so, saying that they kept the Sabbath and the feasts is invalid to attempt to try to push the lie that gentiles are to keep the Sabbath , which they were never commanded to.

Saying they kept the Sabbath and the feast days AFTER the risen Christ should tell ya somethin if ya have eyes to see.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

You are not saying anything in this post but making accusations and posting your opinion. Show me Col. 2:14-16 is speaking about the Sabbath of the Decalogue please.

You prove to me that the Ten Commandments are in a separate class as the rest of the Mosaic Law, in that all the Ten Commandments are moral and permanent in nature, while the rest of the Mosaic Law is a mixture.

Show me that the Sabbath is a moral issue as well.

Then, we will have something to talk about.

Regarding this verse:

Colossians 2:16-17 16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
(ESV)

Notice that the author uses the order "festival, new moon, Sabbath".

This indicates the frequency: annual, monthly, weekly in a descending order.

The same order is used in the OT, either in an ascending or descending order.

1 Chronicles 23:30-31 30 And they were to stand every morning, thanking and praising the Lord, and likewise at evening, 31 and whenever burnt offerings were offered to the Lord on Sabbaths, new moons, and feast days, according to the number required of them, regularly before the Lord
(ESV)

2 Chronicles 2:4 4 Behold, I am about to build a house for the name of the Lord my God and dedicate it to him for the burning of incense of sweet spices before him, and for the regular arrangement of the showbread, and for burnt offerings morning and evening, on the Sabbaths and the new moons and the appointed feasts of the Lord our God, as ordained forever for Israel
(ESV)

2 Chronicles 31:3 3 The contribution of the king from his own possessions was for the burnt offerings: the burnt offerings of morning and evening, and the burnt offerings for the Sabbaths, the new moons, and the appointed feasts, as it is written in the Law of the Lord.
(ESV)

Ezekiel 45:17 17 It shall be the prince's duty to furnish the burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel.
(ESV)

Hosea 2:11 11 And I will put an end to all her mirth, her feasts, her new moons, her Sabbaths, and all her appointed feasts.
(ESV)

Notice, in this case, the phrase "and all her appointed feasts" can be translated "and all her festal assemblies", thus summarizing the rest.

Additionally, if you want to claim that Sabbath means something other than weekly Sabbath, I will ask you, what does it mean, then? Remember, it has to be something within the Mosaic Law.

I know that the Seventh Day Adventists have generated mountains of research trying to refute that this verse includes the Sabbath, but it is all in vain. They did not succeed.

In fact, I have heard some SDA professors know that the Sabbath isn't commanded under the New Covenant, but they continue to teach the "party line".

By the way, concerning "my opinion", it is an informed opinion. I know the characteristics of Judaizers, and I know the problems with their arguments. I spent ten years as a baptized member of a Judaizer organization, and I was raised as a child in it. I was fully committed to Sabbathkeeping. I was fully committed to festival observance, too, though, because I knew the two things go together.

And, I have pointed out several times that it is a common practice for Judaizers to use verses in the Prophets to "prove" the Sabbath, when adjacent verses are referring to animal sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood. Yet, you seem incapable of understanding how inconsistent your exegesis is. You have the same problem here with Colossians 2:16-17.

Dale Ratzlaff, a fourth generation ex SDA pastor, has explained this reasoning in more detail here:

 

[garee]

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

UWC uses passage above to claim we need not keep Gods sabbath day and that God changed His mind and its OK now to eat the piggies. Can his doctrines be found in the scriptures by looking at the followers of the RISEN Christ?

ACTS 18 [20] When they desired him to tarry longer time with them, he consented not; [21] But bade them farewell, saying, I MUST BY ALL MEANS KEEP THIS FEAST THAT COMETH IN JERUSALEM: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Not here. Here we find Paul keeping one of the feast days in Jersalem long after Christ had been crucified

1 COR. 5 [6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? [7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [8] THEREFORE LET US KEEP THE FEAST, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This also is after Christ had risen. They were still keeping the Feast of unleavened bread but not as they did before. Before Christ there was to be no leven in the house. After Christ was crucified the laws contained in the ordinances were nailed to the cross. So have yourself a peanut butter and jelly.

ACTS 17 [2] AND PAUL, AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Not here either. Paul as his manner was... still keeping the sabbath

ACTS 10 [11] And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: [12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. [13] And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. [14] BUT PETER SAID, NOT SO, LORD; FOR I HAVE NEVER EATEN ANY THING THAT IS COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

Once again, not here either. Peter refused to eat the unclean thing even after the risen Christ.

ACTS 10 [28] And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but GOD HATH SHEWED ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

Verse 28 explains the great sheet. No man is now unclean

JOEL 1 [13] Gird yourselves, and lament, YE PRIESTS: howl, YE MINISTERS of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for THE MEAT OFFERING AND THE DRINK OFFERING IS WITHHOLDEN FROM THE HOUSE OF YOUR GOD. [14] Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the Lord your God, and cry unto the Lord, [15] Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Don’t look good for some, come the Day of the Lord.

JOHN 6 [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

Peter was mistaken. The shadow of eating ceremonially disappeared when Jesus said; it is finished. It had to do with manna. Which turned into three kosher meals a day by the time the new testament came. .

And it has nothing to do with the kind of fast that the disciples did not perform with prayer. .and therefore could not cast out demons a lying spirits.

 

[garee]

You prove to me that the Ten Commandments are in a separate class as the rest of the Mosaic Law, in that all the Ten Commandments are moral and permanent in nature, while the rest of the Mosaic Law is a mixture.

Show me that the Sabbath is a moral issue as well.

Then, we will have something to talk about.

Regarding this verse:

Colossians 2:16-17 16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
(ESV)

Notice that the author uses the order "festival, new moon, Sabbath".

This indicates the frequency: annual, monthly, weekly in a descending order.

The same order is used in the OT, either in an ascending or descending order.

1 Chronicles 23:30-31 30 And they were to stand every morning, thanking and praising the Lord, and likewise at evening, 31 and whenever burnt offerings were offered to the Lord on Sabbaths, new moons, and feast days, according to the number required of them, regularly before the Lord
(ESV)

2 Chronicles 2:4 4 Behold, I am about to build a house for the name of the Lord my God and dedicate it to him for the burning of incense of sweet spices before him, and for the regular arrangement of the showbread, and for burnt offerings morning and evening, on the Sabbaths and the new moons and the appointed feasts of the Lord our God, as ordained forever for Israel
(ESV)

2 Chronicles 31:3 3 The contribution of the king from his own possessions was for the burnt offerings: the burnt offerings of morning and evening, and the burnt offerings for the Sabbaths, the new moons, and the appointed feasts, as it is written in the Law of the Lord.
(ESV)

Ezekiel 45:17 17 It shall be the prince's duty to furnish the burnt offerings, grain offerings, and drink offerings, at the feasts, the new moons, and the Sabbaths, all the appointed feasts of the house of Israel: he shall provide the sin offerings, grain offerings, burnt offerings, and peace offerings, to make atonement on behalf of the house of Israel.
(ESV)

Hosea 2:11 11 And I will put an end to all her mirth, her feasts, her new moons, her Sabbaths, and all her appointed feasts.
(ESV)

Notice, in this case, the phrase "and all her appointed feasts" can be translated "and all her festal assemblies", thus summarizing the rest.

Additionally, if you want to claim that Sabbath means something other than weekly Sabbath, I will ask you, what does it mean, then? Remember, it has to be something within the Mosaic Law.

I know that the Seventh Day Adventists have generated mountains of research trying to refute that this verse includes the Sabbath, but it is all in vain. They did not succeed.

In fact, I have heard some SDA professors know that the Sabbath isn't commanded under the New Covenant, but they continue to teach the "party line".

By the way, concerning "my opinion", it is an informed opinion. I know the characteristics of Judaizers, and I know the problems with their arguments. I spent ten years as a baptized member of a Judaizer organization, and I was raised as a child in it. I was fully committed to Sabbathkeeping. I was fully committed to festival observance, too, though, because I knew the two things go together.

And, I have pointed out several times that it is a common practice for Judaizers to use verses in the Prophets to "prove" the Sabbath, when adjacent verses are referring to animal sacrifices and the Levitical priesthood. Yet, you seem incapable of understanding how inconsistent your exegesis is. You have the same problem here with Colossians 2:16-17.

Dale Ratzlaff, a fourth generation ex SDA pastor, has explained this reasoning in more detail here:

I would agree. The ceremonial shadow is the only commandment that gives two different reasons by which we can obtain rest The Deuteronomy account differs from the Exodus. For a reason .No parables using metaphors are used to define, moral laws.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Saying they kept the Sabbath and the feast days AFTER the risen Christ should tell ya somethin if ya have eyes to see.

There was no issue with Jewish believers observing festivals and Sabbath. There's no issue with Gentiles doing it either, unless they are Judaizers who claim all must keep them, and judge others.

By the way, your reasoning is fallacious given Acts 21. Paul observed purification ceremonies of the Mosaic Law even though it was not required. He did this because of false accusations that were being made, that he was telling Jews not to observe the Law as part of their culture.

Acts 21:17-26 17 When we had come to Jerusalem, the brothers received us gladly. 18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 After greeting them, he related one by one the things that God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law, 21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs. 22 What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Do therefore what we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; 24 take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law. 25 But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality.” 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day he purified himself along with them and went into the temple, giving notice when the days of purification would be fulfilled and the offering presented for each one of them.
(ESV)

So, if your reasoning is that all Christians must observe the Sabbath because Paul did after the resurrection, then there's a problem because he also observed purification ceremonies according to the Mosaic Law.

Again, Sabbatarian beliefs are full of inconsistencies once these things are fully examined.

By the way, Sabbathbreaking is NEVER mentioned in the NT "sin lists", so the level of importance Sabbatarians give to this issue is simply not supported by Scripture. Additionally, Gentiles were NEVER TOLD to observe the Sabbath.

 

[garee]

There was no issue with Jewish believers observing festivals and Sabbath. There's no issue with Gentiles doing it either, unless they are Judaizers who claim all must keep them, and judge others.

By the way, your reasoning is fallacious given Acts 21. Paul observed purification ceremonies of the Mosaic Law even though it was not required. He did this because of false accusations that were being made, that he was telling Jews not to observe the Law as part of their culture.

Acts 21:17-26 17 When we had come to Jerusalem, the brothers received us gladly. 18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 After greeting them, he related one by one the things that God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law, 21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs. 22 What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Do therefore what we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; 24 take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law. 25 But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality.” 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day he purified himself along with them and went into the temple, giving notice when the days of purification would be fulfilled and the offering presented for each one of them.
(ESV)

So, if your reasoning is that all Christians must observe the Sabbath because Paul did after the resurrection, then there's a problem because he also observed purification ceremonies according to the Mosaic Law.

Again, Sabbatarian beliefs are full of inconsistencies once these things are fully examined.

By the way, Sabbathbreaking is NEVER mentioned in the NT "sin lists", so the level of importance Sabbatarians give to this issue is simply not supported by Scripture. Additionally, Gentiles were NEVER TOLD to observe the Sabbath.

I would think the foundation of the law using manna must first be understood. Why twice as much the day before and what the fast represented as the gospel not seen. . . hidden the spiritual value. .

Much has been added to it. like the reference of the man drawing fire wood and killed. It was not because he moved on the Sabbath and he should of been resting (not lifting a finger). Men turned that into some sort of works righteousness idea completely dismissing the context of gathering fire wood the day before in order to make the manna worthy the following day. He ignored the ceremonial law as a shadow and was put to death .

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Thats 2 things.

ACTS 17 [24] God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is LORD OF HEAVEN AND EARTH, DWELLETH NOT IN TEMPLES MADE WITH HANDS;

MARK 14 [57] And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,[58] We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I WILL BUILD ANOTHER MADE WITHOUT HANDS.

ZECH.6 [12] And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and HE SHALL BUILD THE TEMPLE of the LORD: [13] Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

PSA LM 127 [1] Except the LORD build the house, THEY LABOUR IN VAIN THAT BUILD IT: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain.

1COR.3 [16] Know ye not that YE ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?[17] If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2COR.6 16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.[17] Wherefore come out from among them, and BE YE SEPARATE, SAITH THE LORD, AND TOUCH NOT THE UNCLEAN THING; and I will receive you,[18] And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty

EPH.2 [19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;[20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;[21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:[22] In whom YE ALSO ARE BUILDED TOGETHER FOR AN HABITATION OF GOD THROUGH THE SPIRIT

That doesn't answer my question..which earthly organization do you fellowship with? Which one do you think represents true Christianity?

If I am a person who is convicted of the Sabbath, where would you tell me I should fellowship?

Which one has "the Truth"?

By the way, as an Armstrongite, we would never have called Jesus "the Truth". We would have called the Church's teachings "the Truth". I know that Seventh Day Adventists commonly do the same thing.

This is cult language by the way. It means that the person has accepted the teachings of a particular organization that has a monopoly on the true faith.

Within evangelical Christianity, believers are anyone who has been regenerated, and who is indwelt with the Holy Spirit, regardless of what day he observes or what foods he eats.

Would you agree that true believers are anyone who has been regenerated, and who is indwelt with the Holy Spirit, regardless of what day he observes, or what foods he eats? Or, would you place restrictions on this?

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

UWC uses passage above to claim we need not keep Gods sabbath day and that God changed His mind and its OK now to eat the piggies. Can his doctrines be found in the scriptures by looking at the followers of the RISEN Christ?

ACTS 18 [20] When they desired him to tarry longer time with them, he consented not; [21] But bade them farewell, saying, I MUST BY ALL MEANS KEEP THIS FEAST THAT COMETH IN JERUSALEM: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Not here. Here we find Paul keeping one of the feast days in Jersalem long after Christ had been crucified

1 COR. 5 [6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? [7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [8] THEREFORE LET US KEEP THE FEAST, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This also is after Christ had risen. They were still keeping the Feast of unleavened bread but not as they did before. Before Christ there was to be no leven in the house. After Christ was crucified the laws contained in the ordinances were nailed to the cross. So have yourself a peanut butter and jelly.

ACTS 17 [2] AND PAUL, AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Not here either. Paul as his manner was... still keeping the sabbath

ACTS 10 [11] And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: [12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. [13] And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. [14] BUT PETER SAID, NOT SO, LORD; FOR I HAVE NEVER EATEN ANY THING THAT IS COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

Once again, not here either. Peter refused to eat the unclean thing even after the risen Christ.

ACTS 10 [28] And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but GOD HATH SHEWED ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

Verse 28 explains the great sheet. No man is now unclean

JOEL 1 [13] Gird yourselves, and lament, YE PRIESTS: howl, YE MINISTERS of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for THE MEAT OFFERING AND THE DRINK OFFERING IS WITHHOLDEN FROM THE HOUSE OF YOUR GOD. [14] Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the Lord your God, and cry unto the Lord, [15] Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Don’t look good for some, come the Day of the Lord.

JOHN 6 [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

I'm not sure what your point is here.

As I have said, there is nothing wrong with someone observing Sabbath and festivals UNLESS they are Judaizers who claim all other Christians MUST observe them.

By the way, Corinth likely had a mixed congregation of Jews and Gentiles. Undoubtedly the Jews would have continued observing the Jewish festivals, although observance was no longer required, but the Gentiles may have chosen to. Additionally, Paul's reference may have been metaphorical, because he (unlike Judaizers) knew the true intent of the festivals..to point toward the sinlessness of Jesus (leaven is a symbol of sin).

By the way, those in real danger are the ones who are trying to justify themselves through ceremonies, and not through faith in Jesus Christ and his righteousness imputed to them.

 

[Wall]

You prove to me that the Ten Commandments are in a separate class as the rest of the Mosaic Law

EXOD.34
[28] And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables THE WORDS OF THE COVENANT, THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

DEUT.4
[13] And he declared unto you HIS COVENANT, which he commanded you to perform, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Looks like a separate covenant to me

 

[p_rehbein]

Seems I remember that the Jewish Calendar only had 6 days............right?

 

[Wall]

Hosea 2:11 11 And I will put an end to all her mirth, her feasts, her new moons, her Sabbaths, and all her appointed feasts.
(ESV)

Notice, in this case, the phrase "and all her appointed feasts" can be translated "and all her festal assemblies", thus summarizing the rest.

Hosea 2 is what has actually happened. Baal... so much could be said. The ceasing of of the new moons, Sabbaths and feast days was a punishment. Just read it in context

Hosea 2:8-11 (KJV)
8 For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared for Baal.
9 Therefore will I return, and take away my corn in the time thereof, and my wine in the season thereof, and will recover my wool and my flax given to cover her nakedness.
10 And now will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and none shall deliver her out of mine hand.
11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

 

[UnitedWithChrist]

Hosea 2 is what has actually happened. Baal... so much could be said. The ceasing of of the new moons, Sabbaths and feast days was a punishment. Just read it in context

I noticed that you put them out of order.

I'm really not understanding your reasoning.

I demonstrated that the order is identical to Colossians 2:16-17.

Weekly, monthly, annual or the other way around.

But, I know that the Judaizers won't accept this anyways...they would have to give up their mantra of days and diet, days and diet, days and diet...and face the reality of deeper spiritual issues in their lives.