Increase Our Faith Lu 17:5-10

[crossnote]

I'm going to need help on this one.
The disciples just asked Jesus to 'increase our faith'. Yet I don't quite understand Jesus' response or see how it answers their request. His first answer seems to describe faith, and His 2nd answer seems unrelated. Any help?

Luk 17:5-10
(5) The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”
(6) And the Lord said, “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.
(7) “Will any one of you who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and recline at table’?
(8) Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and dress properly, and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’?
(9) Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded?
(10) So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”

 

[Chris1975]

I'm going to need help on this one.
The disciples just asked Jesus to 'increase our faith'. Yet I don't quite understand Jesus' response or see how it answers their request. His first answer seems to describe faith, and His 2nd answer seems unrelated. Any help?

Luk 17:5-10
(5) The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”
(6) And the Lord said, “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.
(7) “Will any one of you who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and recline at table’?
(8) Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and dress properly, and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’?
(9) Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded?
(10) So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”

This is a beautiful question, and in my opinion is what BDF is all about (or should be about). You are right that there are two facets and answers given. But the meaning of the second one is hidden unless you pull the few verses before verse 5 into the mix (which I will copy below). But first verses 5-6:

Luke 17
5 And the apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith.”
6 So the Lord said, “If you have faith as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.
>what Jesus is saying here is that you are "asking for the wrong thing". Jesus has ALREADY given initial faith to his disciples/apostles. No matter if this is merely the size of a mustard seed (one of the smallest seeds you get), this is SUFFICIENT to tell that mulberry tree to be uprooted and thrown in the sea. In another parable, it is a mountain be removed. Basically you have all the faith seed you need ALREADY. Its up to the disciples to EXERCISE this faith.

Now to the second part (with preceding verses)

Luke 17
3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins [c]against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns [d]to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”

Faith and Duty
5 And the apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith.”
6 So the Lord said, “If you have faith as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be pulled up by the roots and be planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you. 7 And which of you, having a servant plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and sit down to eat’? 8 But will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare something for my supper, and gird yourself and serve me till I have eaten and drunk, and afterward you will eat and drink’? 9 Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded [e]him? I think not. 10 So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’ ”

>Firstly, see the "Faith and Duty" split in the text. This makes you think that Jesus is talking a new topic. But He is not. The publishers did this passage a disservice.
>Verses 7-10 actually address verses 3-4. In verses 3-4 Jesus is saying even if a brother sins against you 7 times in a single day (other parts of the bible say 70x7 times) you should forgive Him if he repents. Try make that practical to you. Say a brother steals from you 7 times in the same day, each time repenting sincerely. An impossible example I know. But Jesus makes it an impossible scenario so as to effectively make forgiveness an unlimited grace we extend to our fellow brethren.
>the disciples REACT with "Increase our faith" - precisely because this would be an impossible scenario to TOLERATE (its almost intolerable). Now verses 7-10 make more sense:- Lets look at the key learnings in bullet form below:

• A servant has been working the field the whole day (long and arduous): So too is our walk through this life as we are met with many challenges, trials and tribulations. We are to PERSEVERE in our walk with the Lord.
• Then when the servant comes in, the master instead of letting the servant relax, chill out, have something to eat : No, Jesus says the Master commands the servant to prepare the meal, cook and serve (and probably require a smile on the servants face) : And so too is the conclusion of this matter. You have not FORGIVEN ENOUGH if you have only forgiven once. The characteristics of a servant of the Lord is characterised by continual forgiveness (v3-4). If your brother slaps your one cheek, offer the other as well. If he takes your coat, give it freely. Jesus is saying that Grace is a higher standard of reponse to your fellow man. Because it is love. Even the love of your enemy.

 

[dcontroversal]

I'm going to need help on this one.
The disciples just asked Jesus to 'increase our faith'. Yet I don't quite understand Jesus' response or see how it answers their request. His first answer seems to describe faith, and His 2nd answer seems unrelated. Any help?

Luk 17:5-10
(5) The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”
(6) And the Lord said, “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.
(7) “Will any one of you who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and recline at table’?
(8) Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and dress properly, and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’?
(9) Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded?
(10) So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”

Short end of the stick......faith being increased is a process of growth and maturity......I believe that is the point he is making and the bible does portray this truth.....

ADD to your faith (the list) and if these be in you.......

Let the trial of your faith have it's perfect work.....

Be transformed by the renewing of the mind....

Faith is given in measure and indeed can be matured and grown, but it takes time and maturity.......

Jesus was the only one not dealt faith in measure.....He could not give them a shot of instant maturity......Just like a servant that had been plowing all day would be told to prepare before he sits to eat.......faith must be matured, nurtured and grown over time.

 

[crossnote]

Luk 17:5-10
(5) The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”
(6) And the Lord said, “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.
(7) “Will any one of you who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and recline at table’?
(8) Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and dress properly, and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’?
(9) Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded?
(10) So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”

Thanks @dcontroversal and @Chris1975 . Taking a long 2nd look is it possible that Jesus is punching a whole in the common perception of 'great faith' such as those doing signs and wonder etc., and is rather showing that increased or great faith lies in our faithfulness as described in vss 7-10 and in our attitude of 'undeservedness' as we serve (vs 10)?
Yes it involves maturity as DCon pointed out.

 

[Dave-L]

I'm going to need help on this one.
The disciples just asked Jesus to 'increase our faith'. Yet I don't quite understand Jesus' response or see how it answers their request. His first answer seems to describe faith, and His 2nd answer seems unrelated. Any help?

Luk 17:5-10
(5) The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”
(6) And the Lord said, “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.
(7) “Will any one of you who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and recline at table’?
(8) Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and dress properly, and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’?
(9) Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded?
(10) So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”

Faith comes from God, not from us. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

 

[crossnote]

Faith comes from God, not from us. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

I was sort of asking how the response Jesus gave related to the disciples request, "Increase our faith".

 

[Dave-L]

I was sort of asking how the response Jesus gave related to the disciples request, "Increase our faith".

The knew faith came from Christ and not from themselves.

 

[Chris1975]

Faith comes from God, not from us. Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 4
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

 

[Dave-L]

2 Timothy 4
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

So have I. But it comes from God, not me.

 

[dcontroversal]

I was sort of asking how the response Jesus gave related to the disciples request, "Increase our faith".

Amen.....and like it says....Faith is dealt in MEASURE to every man except Jesus....after the initial seed of faith has sprouted and results in birth, it can be grown, cultivated and matured.....it can also be stunted as well to the point it seems hard to see, but JESUS will finish it and complete it in EVERY MAN is has been begun in.....

 

[Mem]

Jesus' disciples would often ask such things that Jesus would answer, "You don't know what you're asking." as in this and similar occurrences. Going by the way Jesus answered the request, it could be rephrased to the way He apparently interpreted it, "Make us faithful (servants)."

 

[posthuman]

I'm going to need help on this one.
The disciples just asked Jesus to 'increase our faith'. Yet I don't quite understand Jesus' response or see how it answers their request. His first answer seems to describe faith, and His 2nd answer seems unrelated. Any help?

Luk 17:5-10
(5) The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”
(6) And the Lord said, “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.
(7) “Will any one of you who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and recline at table’?
(8) Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and dress properly, and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’?
(9) Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded?
(10) So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”

this is how faith is increased: when you have done all you were commanded, consider yourself an unworthy servant having done nothing to merit special favor.

 

[crossnote]

this is how faith is increased: when you have done all you were commanded, consider yourself an unworthy servant having done nothing to merit special favor.

That sounds like faith itself or do you see that as a means of 'increasing ones' faith'?

 

[posthuman]

That sounds like faith itself or do you see that as a means of 'increasing ones' faith'?

quoting again for ease of reference:

Luke 17:5-10​

(5) The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”​

(6) And the Lord said, “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.​

(7) “Will any one of you who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and recline at table’?​

(8) Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and dress properly, and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’?​

(9) Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded?​

(10) So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”​

(6) is easily related to their request in (5) -- He tells them that even a little faith is sufficient for much.
(7-10) may seem disconnected, but i think (6) introduces the answer to (5), (7-9) give the rationale we ought to root our understanding in, and (10) is the instruction that really answers (5) both in terms of a reply and as accomplishing what they ask of Him.

so He's told them even a little faith is sufficient, and then He explains that a servant, tho he does receive his due, doesn't receive it before his duties are done. the reply is threefold then:

• a small measure is sufficient for much
• remember your place
• in humility, be content

i think what He's said works increase in faith -- that by telling them this, He is both explaining how faith is increased, and He is in fact increasing their faith by telling them these things. being content with little is great faith, and increases faith. comporting yourself as a servant is great faith, and increases faith. and walking humbly, even after you have accomplished great things, is great faith and increases faith.
my understanding of how He's answered them is that exercising faith grows faith, and that the more humble we are, the more meek and satisfied we are with whatever little we might receive of Him, being happy if only to have the opportunity to sweep floors in His household, the greater our faith: that having this mind is great faith and this attitude increases faith.

it reminds me of this --

Now godliness with contentment is great gain: for we brought nothing into this world, ​

and it is certain we can carry nothing out, and having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. ​

(1 Timothy 6:6-8)​

​

isn't this great faith? and if we keep this mindset, i believe it increases faith. it's like working out at a gym for our soul
same outlook is also here:

I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do all this through Him who gives me strength. ​

(Philippians 4:11-13)​

​

i think this is the secret to being content in every situation: to consider myself an unworthy servant who is only working at what is his duty. and i think, if i firmly ground myself with this demeanor, my faith increases as i live and walk this way, content, at peace, giving thanks in every situation, not asking more but rejoicing in whatever is allotted to me.

make sense. . ?

 

[posthuman]

quoting again for ease of reference:

Luke 17:5-10​

(5) The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!”​

(6) And the Lord said, “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.​

(7) “Will any one of you who has a servant plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and recline at table’?​

(8) Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and dress properly, and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’?​

(9) Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded?​

(10) So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done what was our duty.’”​

(6) is easily related to their request in (5) -- He tells them that even a little faith is sufficient for much.
(7-10) may seem disconnected, but i think (6) introduces the answer to (5), (7-9) give the rationale we ought to root our understanding in, and (10) is the instruction that really answers (5) both in terms of a reply and as accomplishing what they ask of Him.

so He's told them even a little faith is sufficient, and then He explains that a servant, tho he does receive his due, doesn't receive it before his duties are done. the reply is threefold then:

• a small measure is sufficient for much
• remember your place
• in humility, be content

i think what He's said works increase in faith -- that by telling them this, He is both explaining how faith is increased, and He is in fact increasing their faith by telling them these things. being content with little is great faith, and increases faith. comporting yourself as a servant is great faith, and increases faith. and walking humbly, even after you have accomplished great things, is great faith and increases faith.
my understanding of how He's answered them is that exercising faith grows faith, and that the more humble we are, the more meek and satisfied we are with whatever little we might receive of Him, being happy if only to have the opportunity to sweep floors in His household, the greater our faith: that having this mind is great faith and this attitude increases faith.

it reminds me of this --

Now godliness with contentment is great gain: for we brought nothing into this world, ​

and it is certain we can carry nothing out, and having food and clothing, with these we shall be content. ​

(1 Timothy 6:6-8)​

​

isn't this great faith? and if we keep this mindset, i believe it increases faith. it's like working out at a gym for our soul
same outlook is also here:

I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. I can do all this through Him who gives me strength. ​

(Philippians 4:11-13)​

​

i think this is the secret to being content in every situation: to consider myself an unworthy servant who is only working at what is his duty. and i think, if i firmly ground myself with this demeanor, my faith increases as i live and walk this way, content, at peace, giving thanks in every situation, not asking more but rejoicing in whatever is allotted to me.

make sense. . ?

Too Long Didn't Read ((TLDR)):

asking for more, being unsatisfied with what you have, is little faith, and diminishes faith.
being content with what you have, thinking of yourself as unworthy of any more, is great faith, and increases faith.

 

[posthuman]

He could not give them a shot of instant maturity......Just like a servant that had been plowing all day would be told to prepare before he sits to eat.......faith must be matured, nurtured and grown over time.

well i'm reluctant to ever say "He couldn't" !
but it is better; it's a weak-rooted & short-lived plant that shoots up in a short time, and a strong, spreading, enduring one that grows over a long span.

 

[posthuman]

the meaning of the second one is hidden unless you pull the few verses before verse 5 into the mix (which I will copy below)

. . .

Luke 17
3 Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins [c]against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. 4 And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns [d]to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”

this is a good point -- what prompts the disciples to say 'increase our faith!' is to be told they ought to abound in forgiveness.
they must have been astonished, and thought to themselves, how ill-prepared they were to do this!

and the answer Christ gives them is certainly related: we are to understand that it is our duty, as His servants, 'to act justly, to love mercy and walk humbly before Him' -- to pass over transgressions in lovingkindness is as plowing the Master's field, keeping His sheep, preparing His food and garments, and then seeking no further reward but the opportunity to have served Him. and to do so without grumbling or complaint, being content with little, is to exercise great faith.

 

[crossnote]

i think this is the secret to being content in every situation: to consider myself an unworthy servant who is only working at what is his duty. and i think, if i firmly ground myself with this demeanor, my faith increases as i live and walk this way, content, at peace, giving thanks in every situation, not asking more but rejoicing in whatever is allotted to me.

make sense. . ?

you know, sometimes it is extremely difficult in differentiating between our doing and His working in us creating/forming/strengthening faith.

 

[dcontroversal]

well i'm reluctant to ever say "He couldn't" !
but it is better; it's a weak-rooted & short-lived plant that shoots up in a short time, and a strong, spreading, enduring one that grows over a long span.

The reason I said couldn't is because God does not compromise his word and he is bound by his word and his word plainly teaches that faith must be grown and matured which is a process.....he deals with all equally....that is why I used couldn't!