Interest in the Bible? Low or near 0 interest is good?

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Dear Friends, so since this came up in another thread, about recessions, let's discuss what the Bible says about interest separately here.

Deut 23:19: “You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest."

Psa 15:5: "He does not lend his money at interest, Nor does he take a bribe against the innocent. One who does these things will never be shaken."

Luk 6: 34 "And if you lend to them of whom you hope to receive, what thanks are to you? for sinners also lend to sinners, for to receive as much. 35 But love ye your enemies: do good, and lend, hoping for nothing thereby: and your reward shall be great, and you shall be the sons of the Highest; for he is kind to the unthankful, and to the evil."

What does God and Our Lord Jesus Christ aim to teach us by these passages, that encourage lending without interest so far as possible?

 

[MsMediator]

What does God and Our Lord Jesus Christ aim to teach us by these passages, that encourage lending without interest so far as possible?

Probably because so the poor and needy are not taken advantage. It is easy to charge a high interest on the needy because they are desperate; this is what loan sharks do. Perhaps the Jews of that time were shrewd businessmen. We have pictures of money changers in mind.

I personally would not charge interest on a personal loan unless I am subject to an interest, in which case I am passing the cost of the interest. One example is if a parent has student loans for the child and they have an agreement that the child will pay back with interest. If it is a long term loan, I might charge interest to keep up with cost of inflation. Money loses roughly half of its value every 20 years based on the consumer price index ($1000 now will be worth $500 in 20 years). However, I think all Christians should aim to give first, especially if the person is needy, instead of giving a loan if they can afford it.

 

[notonmywatch]

Turning from the natural to the spiritual, we have this to consider:

Matthew 25:14
For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Matthew 25:15
And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

Matthew 25:16
Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

Matthew 25:17
And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

Matthew 25:18
But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

Matthew 25:19
After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

Matthew 25:20
And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

Matthew 25:21
His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Matthew 25:22
He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Matthew 25:23
His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Matthew 25:24
Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

Matthew 25:25
And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

Matthew 25:26
His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

Matthew 25:27
Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

Matthew 25:28
Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

Matthew 25:29
For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

When it comes to the talents that Jesus has given us, he expects them back with usury or with interest. He truly reaps where he hasn't sown, and gathers where he hasn't strawed. In other words, he reaps the results of our labor in his vineyard as we faithfully serve him. If we appear empty-handed on the day of reckoning, then he will take our talents from us, give them to others, and cast us into outer darkness where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth because we will have been found to be wicked, slothful, and unprofitable servants.

A sobering thought, or at least it should be.

 

[notonmywatch]

Xavier, why do you disagree with this teaching of Jesus?

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Be back shortly to respond. I took issue only with this statement of yours: "He truly reaps where he hasn't sown, and gathers where he hasn't strawed." I don't agree. Christ doesn't reap where He hasn't sown. The good works that we do, which He rewards in Heaven, are works which He Himself, by His Spirit living in us, does in us and through us. Hence, it is not correct to say Christ "reaps where he hasn't sown". That was the unjust servant's false view of the Master which led him to be lazy.

Regarding your other statements, that Christ expects a return on the talents He has given us, and will reward or punish us accordingly as we have used them, agreed 100%. But it isn't true that Christ reaps where HE or His Spirit hasn't sown imo.

God Bless.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Dear Friends, so since this came up in another thread, about recessions, let's discuss what the Bible says about interest separately here.

Deut 23:19: “You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest."

Psa 15:5: "He does not lend his money at interest, Nor does he take a bribe against the innocent. One who does these things will never be shaken."

Luk 6: 34 "And if you lend to them of whom you hope to receive, what thanks are to you? for sinners also lend to sinners, for to receive as much. 35 But love ye your enemies: do good, and lend, hoping for nothing thereby: and your reward shall be great, and you shall be the sons of the Highest; for he is kind to the unthankful, and to the evil."

What does God and Our Lord Jesus Christ aim to teach us by these passages, that encourage lending without interest so far as possible?

Not to abuse those in need. Folks who borrow (generally speaking, i know in the world today consumerism has lead many to borrow beyond necessity) have a genuine need beyond their means.
I could go on about our culture and the economy of debt and interest, but thats a long rant. So ill spare you.

 

[notmyown]

Dear Friends, so since this came up in another thread, about recessions, let's discuss what the Bible says about interest separately here.

Deut 23:19: “You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother, interest on money, interest on food, interest on anything that is lent for interest."

Psa 15:5: "He does not lend his money at interest, Nor does he take a bribe against the innocent. One who does these things will never be shaken."

Luk 6: 34 "And if you lend to them of whom you hope to receive, what thanks are to you? for sinners also lend to sinners, for to receive as much. 35 But love ye your enemies: do good, and lend, hoping for nothing thereby: and your reward shall be great, and you shall be the sons of the Highest; for he is kind to the unthankful, and to the evil."

What does God and Our Lord Jesus Christ aim to teach us by these passages, that encourage lending without interest so far as possible?

how 'bout love your neighbor as yourself?

 

[Moses_Young]

What does God and Our Lord Jesus Christ aim to teach us by these passages, that encourage lending without interest so far as possible?

I think the biblical view of "interest" or usury, is that it is no different to theft, because that's what it is. Taking something you haven't earned from someone who has.

It was acceptable to use on enemies, as a type of tribute. Until about the 16th century (when Western society was infiltrated), usury was outlawed and illegal, as it should be.

 

[Cameron143]

Be back shortly to respond. I took issue only with this statement of yours: "He truly reaps where he hasn't sown, and gathers where he hasn't strawed." I don't agree. Christ doesn't reap where He hasn't sown. The good works that we do, which He rewards in Heaven, are works which He Himself, by His Spirit living in us, does in us and through us. Hence, it is not correct to say Christ "reaps where he hasn't sown". That was the unjust servant's false view of the Master which led him to be lazy.

Regarding your other statements, that Christ expects a return on the talents He has given us, and will reward or punish us accordingly as we have used them, agreed 100%. But it isn't true that Christ reaps where HE or His Spirit hasn't sown imo.

God Bless.

I think the reaping where He has not sown refers to spiritual life. He plunders the souls of men from the kingdom of darkness and translates them into the kingdom of light.
This is exemplified in the children of Israel as they entered and conquered the promise land. They enjoyed wells they did not dig and ate freely of that which they did not labor for.

 

[notonmywatch]

Be back shortly to respond. I took issue only with this statement of yours: "He truly reaps where he hasn't sown, and gathers where he hasn't strawed." I don't agree. Christ doesn't reap where He hasn't sown. The good works that we do, which He rewards in Heaven, are works which He Himself, by His Spirit living in us, does in us and through us. Hence, it is not correct to say Christ "reaps where he hasn't sown". That was the unjust servant's false view of the Master which led him to be lazy.

Regarding your other statements, that Christ expects a return on the talents He has given us, and will reward or punish us accordingly as we have used them, agreed 100%. But it isn't true that Christ reaps where HE or His Spirit hasn't sown imo.

God Bless.

Jesus acknowledged that he reaps where he hasn't sown in verse 26.

 

[Joshua_783]

Probably because so the poor and needy are not taken advantage. It is easy to charge a high interest on the needy because they are desperate; this is what loan sharks do. Perhaps the Jews of that time were shrewd businessmen. We have pictures of money changers in mind.

I personally would not charge interest on a personal loan unless I am subject to an interest, in which case I am passing the cost of the interest. One example is if a parent has student loans for the child and they have an agreement that the child will pay back with interest. If it is a long term loan, I might charge interest to keep up with cost of inflation. Money loses roughly half of its value every 20 years based on the consumer price index ($1000 now will be worth $500 in 20 years). However, I think all Christians should aim to give first, especially if the person is needy, instead of giving a loan if they can afford it.

MsMediator you have really thought it through! You are a deep thinker. 😀

 

[Joshua_783]

MsMediator you have really thought it through! You are a deep thinker. 😀

Now what interest rate would you charge me?

 

[Moses_Young]

Jesus acknowledged that he reaps where he hasn't sown in verse 26.

I don't think Jesus is acknowledging this. He is saying "If you truly believed I was a dishonest man, taking dishonest plunder, then why didn't you - wicked servant - put the money with the usurers, to obtain more wicked plunder?" Jesus is pointing out the hypocrisy in the lazy servant, in that it was just an excuse that he was giving, as his actions did not match his words. Jesus is not agreeing with the accusation that God reaps who He does not sow. Who can level that charge against Him who created all things?

 

[oyster67]

Interest in the Bible? Low or near 0 interest is good?

Every believer should have 100% interest in the Word of God.

Psalms 119:103
“How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!”

Low or near zero interest... not good.

 

[notonmywatch]

I don't think Jesus is acknowledging this. He is saying "If you truly believed I was a dishonest man, taking dishonest plunder, then why didn't you - wicked servant - put the money with the usurers, to obtain more wicked plunder?" Jesus is pointing out the hypocrisy in the lazy servant, in that it was just an excuse that he was giving, as his actions did not match his words. Jesus is not agreeing with the accusation that God reaps who He does not sow. Who can level that charge against Him who created all things?

The lengths some people will go to in order to reject the obvious is staggering.

In Luke 19:22, Jesus told him that "thou knewest" or "you knew".

Luke 19:22
And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

The same wording is used in Matthew's similar rendering in Matthew 25:26.

Matthew 25:26
His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

And where does either text even hint at a dishonest man taking dishonest plunder?

Jesus reaps what he hasn't sown because he reaps what his servants have sown.

There's nothing dishonest about that.

 

[Moses_Young]

The lengths some people will go to in order to reject the obvious is staggering.

In Luke 19:22, Jesus told him that "thou knewest" or "you knew".

Luke 19:22
And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

The same wording is used in Matthew's similar rendering in Matthew 25:26.

Matthew 25:26
His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

And where does either text even hint at a dishonest man taking dishonest plunder?

Jesus reaps what he hasn't sown because he reaps what his servants have sown.

There's nothing dishonest about that.

The bible is clear on usury. Usury is spoken against in a number of places. It's categorised along with unjust gain - basically theft or dishonesty. Hence my description of it as dishonest plunder. I don't believe its logically consistent to expect that the Lawgiver who prohibited usury takes profit from the same.

Deuteronomy 23:19 Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:

Proverbs 28:8 He that by usury and unjust gain increaseth his substance, he shall gather it for him that will pity the poor.

Nehemiah 5:10 I likewise, and my brethren, and my servants, might exact of them money and corn: I pray you, let us leave off this usury.

 

[notonmywatch]

The bible is clear on usury. Usury is spoken against in a number of places. It's categorised along with unjust gain - basically theft or dishonesty. Hence my description of it as dishonest plunder. I don't believe its logically consistent to expect that the Lawgiver who prohibited usury takes profit from the same.

Deuteronomy 23:19 Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:

Proverbs 28:8 He that by usury and unjust gain increaseth his substance, he shall gather it for him that will pity the poor.

Nehemiah 5:10 I likewise, and my brethren, and my servants, might exact of them money and corn: I pray you, let us leave off this usury.

You're negating the fact that, in this parable, Jesus is the Lord who reckons with his servants when he returns.

He calls those who gave him back what he initially gave them with usury, or interest, or "gain" on his initial investment "good and faithful servants". Not only that, but they are also rewarded with rulership and an entrance into the joy of their Lord.

How then is usury or interest allegedly bad here when Jesus refers to it as being "good" and rewards it?

Matthew 25:14
For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Matthew 25:15
And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

Matthew 25:16
Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

Matthew 25:17
And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

Matthew 25:18
But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

Matthew 25:19
After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

Matthew 25:20
And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

Matthew 25:21
His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Matthew 25:22
He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Matthew 25:23
His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Matthew 25:24
Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

Matthew 25:25
And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

Matthew 25:26
His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

Matthew 25:27
Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

Matthew 25:28
Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

Matthew 25:29
For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Moses_Young]

You're negating the fact that, in this parable, Jesus is the Lord who reckons with his servants when he returns.

He calls those who gave him back what he initially gave them with usury, or interest, or "gain" on his initial investment "good and faithful servants". Not only that, but they are also rewarded with rulership and an entrance into the joy of their Lord.

How then is usury or interest allegedly bad here when Jesus refers to it as being "good" and rewards it?

Matthew 25:14
For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Matthew 25:15
And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

Matthew 25:16
Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

Matthew 25:17
And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

Matthew 25:18
But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

Matthew 25:19
After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

Matthew 25:20
And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

Matthew 25:21
His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Matthew 25:22
He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Matthew 25:23
His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Matthew 25:24
Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

Matthew 25:25
And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

Matthew 25:26
His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

Matthew 25:27
Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

Matthew 25:28
Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

Matthew 25:29
For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

You're not understanding the difference between usury and investment.

Investment is taking wealth, and generating even more wealth from it, by sound business practices. This is what the good and faithful servants were praised for.

Usury is charging interest on what was lent, without taking on any of the risk of the investment required. This is what banks do, and it is no different to stealing. For example, they lend money, charge interest on it, but if the investment goes bad or the interest is not paid, they don't take on any liability, but want to charge the borrowing party for their loss.

If they want interest, they should be prepared to take the investment loss when/if it happens. If they don't want to take the investment loss when/if it happens, they should not charge interest.

 

[Nehemiah6]

What does God and Our Lord Jesus Christ aim to teach us by these passages, that encourage lending without interest so far as possible?

You should have included the Parable of the Talents, which actually teaches that there is nothing wrong with charging interest since it is a return on investment.

Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. (Mt 25:27)

The lord wanted to earn interest ("usury") on his money, and the exchangers (now banks) did pay interest. There is nothing wrong with a reasonable rate of interest.

Of course there is a spiritual depth to the Parable of the Talents but that is another subject.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

You should have included the Parable of the Talents, which actually teaches that there is nothing wrong with charging interest since it is a return on investment.

Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury. (Mt 25:27)

The lord wanted to earn interest ("usury") on his money, and the exchangers (now banks) did pay interest. There is nothing wrong with a reasonable rate of interest.

Of course there is a spiritual depth to the Parable of the Talents but that is another subject.

I agree with Moses_Young on that: "I don't think Jesus is acknowledging this. He is saying "If you truly believed I was a dishonest man, taking dishonest plunder, then why didn't you - wicked servant - put the money with the usurers, to obtain more wicked plunder?" Jesus is pointing out the hypocrisy in the lazy servant, in that it was just an excuse that he was giving, as his actions did not match his words. Jesus is not agreeing with the accusation that God reaps who He does not sow. Who can level that charge against Him who created all things?"

26 and 27 should be taken together: "26“But the master replied, ‘You wicked and lazy servant! If you knew I harvested crops I didn’t plant and gathered crops I didn’t cultivate, 27why didn’t you deposit my money in the bank? At least I could have gotten some interest on it.’"

Does Jesus really harvest crops He didn't plant and gather crops He didn't cultivate? Not really imo. That is the wicked servant's own false view of the Master. The Lord is answering him according to the words out of his own mouth. Thus in Luk 22, the parallel verse is: "And he said to him, 'Out of your own mouth I will judge you, you wicked servant. You knew that I was an austere man, collecting what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow."

Anyway, please address the other clear verses Moses cited, as well as those I cited in the OP. Moses cited these:

"Deuteronomy 23:19 Thou shalt not lend upon usury to thy brother; usury of money, usury of victuals, usury of any thing that is lent upon usury:

Proverbs 28:8 He that by usury and unjust gain increaseth his substance, he shall gather it for him that will pity the poor.

Nehemiah 5:10 I likewise, and my brethren, and my servants, might exact of them money and corn: I pray you, let us leave off this usury."

At the least, interest/usury should be as low as possible, if 0 is not currently attainable. My grandfather used to lend without interest. Used to be a big story in the village he was from, as he was the only one who would do that. And imo no doubt God blessed him for it.

God Bless.