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Where did anything I posted indicate anything but the exact opposite of what your post suggests? Lots of folks are speculating in the thread at the following link, but your casual offhand thinly veiled accusation - as if your words don't matter at all and you will not be held to account for them - is exactly what my understanding of the passage in that thread is referring to.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61809-denying-power-thereof.html
2nd Timothy 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
And I understand that conclusion to be a suggestion, or advice, but instruction.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/61809-denying-power-thereof.html
2nd Timothy 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
And I understand that conclusion to be a suggestion, or advice, but instruction.
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To which of course they reply that the bible has been "corrupted", except for those portions that don't contradict Islam's books.
That's when you have to move to the suras from Muhammad's earlier so-called "revelations" (that all needed to be abrogated by later suras):
ISLAM AND THE TRUTH
That's when you have to move to the suras from Muhammad's earlier so-called "revelations" (that all needed to be abrogated by later suras):
ISLAM AND THE TRUTH
Once that they aware that their Koran borrowed from the Holy Bible, then they can be told that early Arab Christians wrote it....and that its message is that of the Biblical Jesus Christ...that He is God, that He was crucified until death upon the cross, that He judges the dead...and that the term 'Muhammad', as used in the Koran, actually pertains to the Biblical Jesus.
This is alot for them to take in...no doubt...
This is alot for them to take in...no doubt...
P
Whattt???!!!! Arabic did not exist as a written language until about the 3rd century of the Christian era. Why would I lie to them? Arabic was basically an unknown language up until imperialistic conquest if jihad of the Quraish pagan's started jamming their Arabic down people's throats, which began in the 7th century AD.
The Quran is revealed as the EXACT OPPOSITE of the "Biblical Jesus".
Matthew 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.
Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
What!!! Muhammad proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Jesus of the Bible.
Indeed, the EXACT OPPOSITE?!!!! I should say so.
I
You could show them the differences by talking about the power of Love and forgiveness. Our lord Jesus is instrumental in ministering Love & forgiveness. Forgiving others' sins against you reconciles you with your sins against God. In the old testament, it was always an eye for an eye. That's what Muslims still follow. Christ exemplifies forgiveness of sins and expects Christians to follow Him in Forgiveness. It is not a sign of weakness to forgive. Only the strong forgive. This is practically hard. Jesus expects all Christians of this. Research this in the Four Gospels. Talk about it. Hope this message helped u out. Cheers 
When Arabic came into full usage does not have any bearing upon who wrote the Koran.
Jews and Christians wre the only literate ones in ancient Arabia.....and since the Koran revolves around the Biblical Jesus and His Triune deity, we can safely rule-out Jews as having penned the text.
When asked about Jesus’ Crucifixion, Muslims will invariably reference one ayah from the Koran, to support their conviction.
Islam bases an entire doctrine regarding Jesus’ crucifixion & death upon the cross, on a single solitary Koranic ayah.
And in this single solitary ayah, the entire doctrine teeters upon the rendering of a single solitary word (wama) – which Islam has misinterpreted as a negative.
The correct rendering of this ayah is as thus…
وقولهم إنا قتلنا المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول
الله وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم وإن
الذين اختلفوا فيه لفي شك منه ما لهم به من علم
إلا اتباع الظن وما قتلوه يقينا
Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan
4.157 And their saying: "Truly we killed The Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son, “allah's” messenger”, and that they killed him, and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and truly whom they differed in Him, certainly they (are) not in doubt from Him, on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.
To overcome the Muslim mindset, we need to first define the Arabic word that has been misinterpreted by Islam.
Here is the classic Arabic definition for "ma"...
ما = “ma”
“ma” definition:
Conjunctive pronoun. That; which; that which; whatsoever; what; as; as much; in such a manner as; as much as; as for as; any kind; when; how. Does not, as a rule, refer to reasonable things, but instances to the contrary sometimes occur. It is one of those particles, which, in conditional propositions, govern the verb in the conditional mood; it is frequently a mere expletive. It is also a negative adverb, Not; in general it denies a circumstance either present, or of past, but little remote from the present; it governs the attribute in the accusative, thus it is a negative particle when placed before the perfect as in 53.2; or before a pronoun as in 68.2; or before an demonstrative noun as in 12.31. The particle, when joined to the perfect, denies the past; when joined to the imperfect, the present.
References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, p. 3016
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 2, p. 300
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 523 - 524
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, pp. 135 - 136
As we can see below..."ma", when joined to "wa", is simply a filler-word in this ayah...
وقولهم إنا قتلنا المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول
الله وما قتلوه وما صلبوه ولكن شبه لهم وإن
الذين اختلفوا فيه لفي شك منه ما لهم به من علم
إلا اتباع الظن وما قتلوه يقينا
Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan
4.157 And their saying: "Certainly we killed The Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son, “allah's” messenger”, and that they killed him, and that they crucified him, and certainly they alike, and truly whom they differed in Him, certainly they (are) not in doubt from Him, on account of Him, from knowledge, except to follow the belief, and that they surely killed him.
As witnessed by the plethora of positives in this ayah, the conditional mood is only positive.
Couple this, to the very next ayah, as thus…
بل رفعه الله إليه وكان الله عزيزا حكيما
Bal rafaAAahu Allahu ilayhi wakana Allahu AAazeezan hakeeman
4.158 But “allah”, he raised Him to him, and “allah” mighty, wise.
4.157 & 4.158 tell us of its most likely Biblical source...
This One given to you by the before-determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you having taken by lawless hands, having crucified Him, you killed Him. But God raised Him up, loosing the throes of death, because it was not possible for Him to be held by it. (Act 2.23 - 24)
As we can see, 4.157 & 4.158 are simply parroting NT material...
Thus, context is clear that in 4.157 “wama” is simply governing the verb in the conditional mood – which is positive….NOT negative.
Further, rendering this Islamic one-hit-wonder ayah as a negative would force other Koranic ayahs into contradiction.
As further evidence that 4.157 confirms Jesus’ death upon the cross, all the Koranic crucifixion instances are shown here, which confirm that the Koran always describes a crucifixion event with complete certainty of death…
• 5.33…they will be crucified till death
• 7.124…I will surely crucify you till death
• 12.41…so will be crucified till death
• 20.71…and I will surely crucify you till death
• 26.49…and I will surely crucify you till death
Death through crucifixion is always mandated in the Koran.
Thus, there is no reason at all to believe that 4.157 would break this trend…
Yes, all the same creations and all meant for the very same boat. But God tells us that while we must be ready to welcome every and anyone who wants to get in with us, we aren't even to consider other boats as good boats. We are to let the other boats alone after we obey the command to let them all know about the boat we are in, and this boat is the one that leads to eternal life. We are also to love and protect all the people in our boat.
Such a simple question and such difficult and angry answers.
I took "Experiencing World Religions" from a prof who was an ex-missionary to Indonesia. He won many Muslims to the Lord. It starts by having a relationship with them. Ask about their families, their hopes and dreams. If they mention Allah, just love them. You can give a bit of your testimony, but don't go into doctrine or the Bible on first meeting.
Muslims in our countries are often just ordinary people. They have been taught a lie. But that does not mean that you cannot lead them to Christ. But remember they are also evangelical. They do the 5 pillars of Islam to be a good Muslim and to HOPE they are saved.
Five Pillars of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You can tell them with Jesus, you know they are saved. Let them ask you how. Don't preach. And pray, pray, pray!! Remember that God is in control, and he will open doors to share if the timing is his. Please walk through them if they are open, but do not knock them down, as no one wants an intruder in their home.
Praying that you will learn a bit about them, and you will be able to share the full gospel when God is ready.
I took "Experiencing World Religions" from a prof who was an ex-missionary to Indonesia. He won many Muslims to the Lord. It starts by having a relationship with them. Ask about their families, their hopes and dreams. If they mention Allah, just love them. You can give a bit of your testimony, but don't go into doctrine or the Bible on first meeting.
Muslims in our countries are often just ordinary people. They have been taught a lie. But that does not mean that you cannot lead them to Christ. But remember they are also evangelical. They do the 5 pillars of Islam to be a good Muslim and to HOPE they are saved.
Five Pillars of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You can tell them with Jesus, you know they are saved. Let them ask you how. Don't preach. And pray, pray, pray!! Remember that God is in control, and he will open doors to share if the timing is his. Please walk through them if they are open, but do not knock them down, as no one wants an intruder in their home.
Praying that you will learn a bit about them, and you will be able to share the full gospel when God is ready.
From my personal encounters with followers of islam, the only way that you have a chance of getting through to them is to use their own scriptures to prove your point....as they have been trained to believe that the Holy Bible is corrupt and has been altered...thus, they can have absolutely no objection when you present their own scriptures to prove yours.
Yes, but it all starts with building a relationship and learning to know them. Then God opens doors and you can use their verses.
I doubt they will listen, if you start with confrontation, even using the Qur'an. Interfaith dialogue has to start with respecting the person, the individual. Regardless of how wrong Islam is, you are never going to reach them by starting with an attack.
I doubt they will listen, if you start with confrontation, even using the Qur'an. Interfaith dialogue has to start with respecting the person, the individual. Regardless of how wrong Islam is, you are never going to reach them by starting with an attack.
This is true of all evangelizing. I think some Christians have fear of other beliefs. There is nothing at all to fear, we do have the truth and the entire history of our world proves it, the very earth itself proves it. God will win in the end, we are on the winning side.
Paul gave us an example when he spoke in Athens. He didn't say "you are wrong". He opened their minds by understanding where they were at in their beliefs. I have witnessed to Jews about the Messiah this way, it works, but first I had to learn why they thought as they did.
Paul gave us an example when he spoke in Athens. He didn't say "you are wrong". He opened their minds by understanding where they were at in their beliefs. I have witnessed to Jews about the Messiah this way, it works, but first I had to learn why they thought as they did.
My very first encounter with a Muslim initiated with him asserting that the Holy Bible was not what it should be -after he learned that I was a Christian.
Sadly, this is the cookie-cutter training that ALL Muslims are exposed to....and it is a reflex action for them.
Thus...from what I have found, THEY are the initiators of scriptural discussion.
They also want it to be a one-way street....where they are free to lambaste the Holy Bible BUT you do not have free license with the Koran.
Sadly, this is the cookie-cutter training that ALL Muslims are exposed to....and it is a reflex action for them.
Thus...from what I have found, THEY are the initiators of scriptural discussion.
They also want it to be a one-way street....where they are free to lambaste the Holy Bible BUT you do not have free license with the Koran.
A
The only way to reach people of other faiths is to love them as you would a friend even though you know they are enemies of the faith. To treat them with respect and love. To pray for them and show them how Jesus taught us to love unconditionally.
To give them the truth and trust that God is able to open their hearts and minds to SEE the difference between the Truth and the lies the world has to offer. To teach them about Jesus and His gospel of grace.
Many of the world's religions is based upon the Laws that bind and condemn people. They are based upon working for divine favor instead of understanding God's will and His love. How through Christ's your sins are washed away and you do not WORK for adoption but are given it as a free gift. How Jesus came and died on the cross and rose again so that you might repent and turn from darkness to Light and receive His Holy Spirit to lead and guide you towards that upward calling of God.
To give them the truth and trust that God is able to open their hearts and minds to SEE the difference between the Truth and the lies the world has to offer. To teach them about Jesus and His gospel of grace.
Many of the world's religions is based upon the Laws that bind and condemn people. They are based upon working for divine favor instead of understanding God's will and His love. How through Christ's your sins are washed away and you do not WORK for adoption but are given it as a free gift. How Jesus came and died on the cross and rose again so that you might repent and turn from darkness to Light and receive His Holy Spirit to lead and guide you towards that upward calling of God.
H
I know you care & you want to show Christs love....but Christ is foolishness to those who do not believe. The 'interfaith' love fest came to the little church in my village a few years ago, a vibrant wee church was torn asunder. It then lost its minister...got a minister who was very pro interfaith dialogue, soon the church was so liberal...the minister actually said to me, ''I have no right to judge who is and who is not saved...and we are all going to be with God, all roads are the same.'' So, with a brief sentence Christs death on the cross was dismissed and the need to evangelise made pointless. Now the church is dying, the building will probably be sold off in the next few years, congregation? about 20. The rot set in with compromise...If you do not stand, you will slowly compromise because you dare not offend. Christ is offensive, he died offensive and to those who do not believe, he remains offensive. Why? because there is only one way. Interfaith works only if you do not mention Christ. Talk about God and you will be just fine....God Bless you, <><
