Is baptism Essential for salvation?

[jinx]

no yuor laughin comment was a laugh from Zones post about my post and I opersonally did not find it funny but you did so whatever Love yeah, oh and plkease laugh all you wish to

what zone said was funny.

 

[homwardbound]

when was that? do you know?

New International Version (©2011)
For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

New Living Translation (©2007)
John baptized with water, but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

English Standard Version (©2001)
for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


Acts 1
1The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach,2until the day when He was taken up to heaven, after He had by the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom He had chosen.3To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.4Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me;5for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit

not many days from now

* * 6So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?”7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;8but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”


The Coming of the Holy Spirit
1When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”

Peter’s Sermon at Pentecost
14But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice and addressed them: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and give ear to my words. 15For these people are not drunk, as you suppose, since it is only the third hour of the day.b 16
But this is
what was
uttered through
the prophet Joel:

17 “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares,
that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
and your young men shall see visions,
and your old men shall dream dreams;
18 even on my male servantsc and female servants
in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
19 And I will show wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below,
blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
20 the sun shall be turned to darkness
and the moon to blood,
before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.
21 And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’

22“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— 23this Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men. 24God raised him up, loosing the pangs of death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it. 25For David says concerning him,

“‘I saw the Lord always before me,
for he is at my right hand that I may not be shaken;
26 therefore my heart was glad, and my tongue rejoiced;
my flesh also will dwell in hope.
27 For you will not abandon my soul to Hades,
or let your Holy One see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the paths of life;
you will make me full of gladness with your presence.’

29“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.’

36Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”

37Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

The Fellowship of the Believers
42And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. 43And awed came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. 44And all who believed were together and had all things in common. 45And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. 46And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, 47praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

so you do noit see scripture ion context that this was talking about the day of the Holy Ghost's arrival at Pentecost. Read it from 1:1 to the day of Pentecost hmmm!!!!!!!!! pretty clear in context of what it is that Luke was writing in Acts

 

[jinx]

may be if you bang it hard enough God will get through I don't know Sister you just plainly do not see what I am saying please do not band head over it just ask god and leave it alone the answer will come

I bang my head because there is only so many ways a person can show scripture that says baptism is needed only to have people read it in black and white and then deny it.

Cause that is what is happening here. scriptures GALORE and people still deny it.

 

[homwardbound]

he didn't fall down that i could see.
or get slain.
people were praying for him to get baptized in the Holy Ghost.

he was sweating by the look of it...maybe waiting for a long time.

his mom or gramma or the older lady was showing him how to speak in tongues is my guess.

is that what being baptized in the Holy Ghost is like?

Notto me and have never gone through any of this self will type worship as I said it is a private matter between God and the believer in recieving this truth of being born again which is only given by God tothe one that beleives I am not into showmanship at all. Nor have I ever spoken in any other tongue to any oither or in private, there is a clear comunication between God and me as well as all those that know the truth

 

[homwardbound]

baptism with fire is judgment - possibly to hell.
Jesus had 70AD in mind.

No Sister itthere for one to ask for the fire to kill one's carnal nature being dead here todayin the sin nature flesh and alive to God
Romans 6 very clear on this especially verse 11

 

[homwardbound]

where did Jesus say WATER there?
where?

he said FLESH.

but YOU make it WATER.

[h=3]John 3:4-6[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[homwardbound]

what zone said was funny.

and I said well then okay,

 

[homwardbound]

I bang my head because there is only so many ways a person can show scripture that says baptism is needed only to have people read it in black and white and then deny it.

Cause that is what is happening here. scriptures GALORE and people still deny it.

what makes you think you are looking at it crystal clear?

 

[jinx]

what makes you think you are looking at it crystal clear?

because it IS clear in scripture.

 

[SarahM777]

No Sister itthere for one to ask for the fire to kill one's carnal nature being dead here todayin the sin nature flesh and alive to God
Romans 6 very clear on this especially verse 11

Sorry Homeward that is NOT what Romans 6:11 says

Here it is within context

6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? [SUP]2 [/SUP]By no means! We are those who have died to sin;how can we live in it any longer? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?[SUP]4 [/SUP]We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[SUP][a][/SUP] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— [SUP]7 [/SUP]because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
[SUP]11[/SUP]In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. [SUP]13 [/SUP]Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Not one word about fire to kill our carnal nature. It says count yourself dead to sin but alive in Christ.

 

[zone]

No Sister itthere for one to ask for the fire to kill one's carnal nature being dead here todayin the sin nature flesh and alive to God
Romans 6 very clear on this especially verse 11

where is there fire in this passage.
please be precise.
you are making assertions and appealing to scripture.
where is baptism by fire

Romans 6
Dead to Sin, Alive to God
1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

5For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6We know that our old selfa was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7For one who has died has been set freeb from sin. 8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

WHERE does paul say - for one to ask for the fire to kill one's carnal nature being dead here today in the sin nature flesh and alive to God

he doesnt. we are told to put to death the deeds of the FLESH....flesh...not water btw

 

[SeekingJC]

like this home?


[video=youtube;SrK7k9QJYFM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrK7k9QJYFM[/video]

Seeking the holy Ghost baptism

Zone what on earth is that???

 

[zone]

Zone what on earth is that???

thats what happens when you reject the simple ordinance of water baptism and your friends try to coach you on how to babble in tongues...since for many that is the EVIDENCE that you got da Holy Ghost Baptism.

kinda.

thank the Lord you are a noob.

avoid such things.....run from it.

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Here is the beginning baptism by fire: Luke 12:49 "I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?"

Indeed this fire that Jesus sent is this: Lamentations 4:11 "The LORD hath accomplished his fury; he hath poured out his fierce anger, and hath kindled a fire in Zion, and it hath devoured the foundations thereof."

And what is the purpose of that fire? Ezekiel 15:4 "Behold, it is cast into the fire for fuel; the fire devoureth both the ends of it, and the midst of it is burned. Is it meet for any work?
5 Behold, when it was whole, it was meet for no work: how much less shall it be meet yet for any work, when the fire hath devoured it, and it is burned?"

Compare that scripture in Ezekiel 15:4-5 to what Paul told us: 1 Corinthians 3:13 "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is."

And see that for the former stewards over God's spiritual table that is what the following is: Matthew 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (world = aion or age, as in the age of the reign of that Old Covenant Law by it's stewards).
Matthew 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

We must believe that it is God's will to save rather than destroy: John 10:10 "The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."

Job 24:14 "The murderer rising with the light killeth the poor and needy, and in the night is as a thief."

1 Thessalonians 5:2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night."

Why does the Day of the Lord come that way? Because it is the day of reckoning his stewards for how they have handled the work he gave them to do.

Is God's goal to destroy the person or the flesh? What are the seats of prominence that the Pharisees loved and what did they use those seats to do?

There is yet so very much we need to discuss.

 

[SeekingJC]

Seems a bit silly to me. Look noob perspective here. You're baptized once you repent denounce your evil ways and truly accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour. Seems at that point your baptized in Christ. You wanna throw water on yourself fine, You wanna babble incoherently amiss a group of people go ahead I don't think it has anything to do with cleansing the spirit and living in Christ. Those seem to me to be outward symbols of an inward change. I never spoke in tongues but I know the Holy Spirit resides in me. And I've not been water baptized yet either so how is it possible I have the Holy Spirit? Maybe I don't? But then again who amoung you can judge me to damnation? No one that's right.

For those who truly have the HS working in them there is no mistaking it. The ACT of baptism is symbolic of your actual baptism.

Just this sinners humble opinion feel free to disagree.

Blessings and Love to all,
SeekingJC

 

[Cobus]

There is nothing wrong to be baptized with water... NOTHING... I just hope it brings you closer to the BAPTISM THAT COUNTS...

Here is my problem with water-baptism.... Who does the baptism... I would let ANY of the people in the Bible baptize me with water... John the Baptist and any of the Apostles/disciples of Jesus. Even Philip, the evangelist, but today's pastors and the ones I know.... NOPE! Philip was said to be full of the Holy Spirit, and so was John and the apostles.

The people that wanted to baptize me, I want NOTHING to be like them, but even Philip the deacon had something these pastors did not have.... FULL OF HOLY SPIRIT, AND GOD'S SPIRIT WITNESSING WITH PHILIP...

So again I ask.... WHO'S EXAMPLE DO THE WATERBAPTIZERS FOLLOW IF JESUS DID NOT BAPTIZE WITH WATER... They follow not JESUS when they baptize with water....

Joh 4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
Joh 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,

Jesus knew soon HE WILL START HIS BAPTISM... THE ONE BAPTISM IN EPH 4... SPIRIT BAPTISM.

JC where does this thing come from that ONE ACCEPT JESUS AS THEIR SAVIOUR? I cannot find that scripture... Because it is not BIBLICAL. We do NOT do the choice... GOD MAKES THE CHOICE!

This is one false teaching that we should stop right now here on CC.... NOBODY EVER CHOSE TO ACCEPT JESUS! Father gives people to Jesus, because HE CHOSE TOO! And becasue that point does not exist, you are NOT BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST THERE!

 

[Cobus]

Boy seekingJC, I can teach you many things you have wrong... Let us start with the Holy Spirit WORKING IN A PERSON.... Do you know that such a person went through the ULTIMATE REGENERATION... TO BE MADE EXACTLY IN THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF JESUS! A PERSON that have the Holy Spirit in HIM CANNOT SIN!!! 1 John 3:9... That SEED God mentions there is the Holy Spirit. It is the NEW HEART, and the SPIRIT OF GOD.... IN THE NEW CREATURE... The one where EVERYTHING IS MADE NEW... Such a person is made perfect. Has God's LOVE PERFECTED in him. This is what God did to that person... LOOK AT HOW THIS PERSON WILL DO AS GOD WANTS DONE.... PERFECTLY...
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

I can see God doing this..... FATHER LET THOU WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS DONE IN HEAVEN... The moment God gives a man the new heart, HIS WILL WILL BE DONE IN THAT MAN AS IN HEAVEN... PERFECTLY....

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Perspective is but a different angle of view which in reality does not contradict another angle of view, if only each angle with which it is viewed is carefully ascertained of the Spirit based on God's Word for correctness.

Sometimes we think another has contradicted truth when in fact it is but a different and just as valid angle of viewing the same thing.

Can anyone understand that?

This is called by the world's psychologists, "paradigms". And in this they speak correctly.

 

[Cobus]

Zonie that clip about the "Holy Spirit" is an evil rituaul.... Kundalini or something like that... God does things ORDERLY, and without CHAOS.... One by ONE they will speak.. and ALL should be JUDGED to the WORD...

I am with you on this one.... MANY blaspheme God's ORDER and POWER... I pity them on THE DAY. From the first time I had to do with this, GOD GAVE ME INSIGHT....

Also this falling over and jerking and shaking on the ground,,.,, IT IS EVIL! Do not even try to defend it WITHOUT SCRIPTURE!!!

Not ONE place in the Bible did people FALL BACKWARDS... They STEPPED BACK and their knees bend and they fell to the ground... The only time people were flung to the ground it was EVIL SPIRITS... And Jesus delt with them SEVERELY...

Praise the LORD OF ORDER AND LOVE AND PURE HOLINESS... Jesus Christ is the LORD OF PEACE AND LOVE. AMEN!

 

[kardiaoangelous]

Zonie that clip about the "Holy Spirit" is an evil rituaul.... Kundalini or something like that... God does things ORDERLY, and without CHAOS.... One by ONE they will speak.. and ALL should be JUDGED to the WORD...

I am with you on this one.... MANY blaspheme God's ORDER and POWER... I pity them on THE DAY. From the first time I had to do with this, GOD GAVE ME INSIGHT....

Also this falling over and jerking and shaking on the ground,,.,, IT IS EVIL! Do not even try to defend it WITHOUT SCRIPTURE!!!

Not ONE place in the Bible did people FALL BACKWARDS... They STEPPED BACK and their knees bend and they fell to the ground... The only time people were flung to the ground it was EVIL SPIRITS... And Jesus delt with them SEVERELY...

Praise the LORD OF ORDER AND LOVE AND PURE HOLINESS... Jesus Christ is the LORD OF PEACE AND LOVE. AMEN!

With much pain of heart toward such ones that are so caught as you describe there, I have to agree.

Such ones need that dramatic fleshly evidence before they can believe.