right.
the Grace Dispensation thing.
welcome to the wacky world of the LSC©tm
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What's that?
Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, ephesians, Collosians, and the rest written by the Apostles to the Churches are Doctrinal, Acts is the history of and also Matt. Mark, Luke and John are the history HIS STORY. After the resurrection, Paul and others later sat down and wrote out corrections to all the diffearant churches to straighten out Heresy.
Now please find any other place in the Doctinal writngs (besides Peter) that anywhere it states in this new Covenant of the resurrected Christ we are to by commandment be water Babtised, and Peter does not command water Babtism in 1 peter as he did in Acts. And allthose that were found in water Babtism still needed to recieve the Holy Ghost as shown in Acts not the otehwr way around even though they got water Babtized afterwords if they had niot gotten water Babtized after they recieved the Holy Ghost would theyt have lost the Holy Ghost when Eph 1:13 says we are sealed with the Holy Ghost after we believed Hmm!!!!!!!!!
Water Babtism is no
ithing more than a fleshly act to want ot serve God or to be accepted by others in a group and can be a good act if one truly wants to know God, as this is what happened to me, I was water Babtized to know God because I wanted to know no matter waht the cost and became most miserable trying to obey and found I could not, but I just kept at it until I realized the differance between Flesh and Spirit, this is allthat I say there is a differance between the two and I choose Holy Ghost Babtism
Thank you in advance
Why do you keep blaming Azusa Street for this? We've never blamed the LCMS for what you do...... although maybe we should........
Greek Word: βαπτίζω
Transliteration: baptizō
Phonetic Pronunciation:
bap-tid'-zoRoot: from a derivative of <G911>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 1:529,92
Part of Speech: verb
Vine's Words: Baptism, Baptist, Baptize, Wash
Usage Notes:
English Words used in KJV:
baptize (76)
wash 2
baptist 1
baptized + <G2258> 1
[Total Count: 80]
from a derivative of <G911> (bapto); to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the N.T.) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technical) of the ordinance of Christian baptism :- baptist, baptize, wash.
Until you get totally wet, you weren't baptized in the first place...... You just soaked your head.
The point made is with specificity to the Cornelius event. Peter commanded that they be baptized and that is what is written. No one can make an allegory or metaphor out of it. The scripture--it "needs no"--further explanation.
Brotherly love to you also.
Thanks I appreciate your love back, as I have said I have been water Babtized and that did not bring me life, it was when God Babtiszed me with god's Spirit through the resurrection of his Son back at the cross is when I recieved new life in him
Now maybe the death, burial and resurrection is only meant for a few? I think not For christ went to the cross for all the whole world and rose again from the dead bringinig life to all who believe in him by the operation of God not man
And there is descrepancy over Romans 6:4 as to waht Babtism this is, water or Spirit, and it does not explicitly say May be some one can look it up in the original greek and see if it is explicit or not
Yet to me this Babtism of being buried is death with Christ so we can be brought back to life with Christ by the operation of God as he already did this for his Son, He does this for us too!!!!!!!!!!!!
And again John the Babtist said that his Water Babtism was noit Christ's Babtism that was coming, that he must decrease and Christ must increase. And this is what happened at Pentecost the Holy Ghost Babtism came into effect that day and is the Babtism of today after the cross
But man has gotten in the way just as man did in the day of christ's visitation here. Man is still out for himself and has created good-will worship worshipping with their lip(s) but their hearts being far from him
Nothing is new under the sun, man still wants to be in charge hiding behind a savior's name It really is so sad
Love you deeper than you might know.
Have you recieved the new life in Christ are you Holy Ghost babtized I know you are water Babtised?
And where does this wisdom come from, none other than God himself by who by what? The Holy Ghost yes? so tell me are you saying we recieve the Holy Ghost by water Babtism? if this is true then there was no need for Christ, for as John Babtized in water each person coming upout of the water would have been Holy Ghost Babtized period. But John said plainly that his Babtism was one of repentance only to the people that desired to serve God, and that Christ was headed for the cross and was going to Babtize us with the Holy Ghost and with fire.
Are you Holy Ghost Babtized or just water Babtized or both. All I care about is if one is Holy Ghost Babtized
I was quite content to sit in the grandstands need my popcorn, but you had to make me get up. Mark chapter 1 and Luke chapter 3 both say John baptized for the remission of sins. True. But you're in the wrong covenant. Anything preached and practiced throughout the majority of the Gospels was done under the old covenant.
John 15:26[ The Work of the Holy Spirit ] “When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.I am still waiting for a scripture that says we are "baptized with the Holy Spirit". Help me out Homwardbound or anyone else that believes this.I can find allot of baptized with water but nothing on Holy Spirit baptism.
John 20:22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
Acts 1:5For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 1:8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth
Acts 1:16and said, “Brothers and sisters, the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus.
Acts 2:4
All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.
Acts 2:33
Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.
Acts 7:51
“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!
Romans 5:5
And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.
- Romans 9:1
[ Paul’s Anguish Over Israel ] I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it through the Holy Spirit—
Romans 9:1-3 (in Context) Romans 9 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - Romans 14:17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,
Romans 14:16-18 (in Context) Romans 14 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - Romans 15:13May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Romans 15:12-14 (in Context) Romans 15 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - Romans 15:16to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles. He gave me the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
Romans 15:15-17 (in Context) Romans 15 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - 1 Corinthians 6:19Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
1 Corinthians 6:18-20 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - 1 Corinthians 12:3Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:2-4 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 12 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - 2 Corinthians 6:6in purity, understanding, patience and kindness; in the Holy Spirit and in sincere love;
2 Corinthians 6:5-7 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - 2 Corinthians 13:14May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
2 Corinthians 13:13-14 (in Context) 2 Corinthians 13 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - Ephesians 1:13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
Ephesians 1:12-14 (in Context) Ephesians 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - Ephesians 3:5which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets.
Ephesians 3:4-6 (in Context) Ephesians 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - Ephesians 4:30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Ephesians 4:29-31 (in Context) Ephesians 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - 1 Thessalonians 1:5because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.
1 Thessalonians 1:4-6 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - 1 Thessalonians 1:6You became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the Holy Spirit.
1 Thessalonians 1:5-7 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - 1 Thessalonians 4:8Therefore, anyone who rejects this instruction does not reject a human being but God, the very God who gives you his Holy Spirit.
1 Thessalonians 4:7-9 (in Context) 1 Thessalonians 4 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - 2 Timothy 1:14Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us.
2 Timothy 1:13-15 (in Context) 2 Timothy 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - Titus 3:5he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,
Titus 3:4-6 (in Context) Titus 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - Hebrews 2:4God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
Hebrews 2:3-5 (in Context) Hebrews 2 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - Hebrews 3:7[ Warning Against Unbelief ] So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice,
Hebrews 3:6-8 (in Context) Hebrews 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - Hebrews 6:4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
Hebrews 6:3-5 (in Context) Hebrews 6 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - Hebrews 9:8The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning.
Hebrews 9:7-9 (in Context) Hebrews 9 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - Hebrews 10:15The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
Hebrews 10:14-16 (in Context) Hebrews 10 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - 1 Peter 1:12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.
1 Peter 1:11-13 (in Context) 1 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
Is this enough all through the new covenant it is about the Holy Ghost Babtism that John said was to come not water
- Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Matthew 3:10-12 (in Context) Matthew 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - Mark 1:8I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Mark 1:7-9 (in Context) Mark 1 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations - Luke 3:16John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Luke 3:15-17 (in Context) Luke 3 (Whole Chapter) Other Translations
Actually, yes.
His active show of a faith which works by love, when he spoke up in defense of Jesus, was as his dipping his robe into the blood of Jesus to wash it and make it white.
J
jinx
Guest
The Books from Romans to Jude were epistles written to already born again believers. They already repented, was water baptized and was filled with the HOLY SPIRIT.
Everyone has to endure till the end in order to be saved.
as stated before water baptism is a command, I gave you scripture for this already, many many times.
Homie your a mystic and I dont believe any of your garbage theology. You ignore scriptures, even saying they aint doctrine when all scripture is given for doctrine
Who are you trying to convince? me or you?
That word, "doctrine", at 2 Tim 3:16 is a Greek word which means, "instruction". It is used as a verb there at 2 Tim 3:16, implying, "to actively teach". "All scripture is .... profitable to teach with."
J
jinx
Guest
Whatever seems right in their own eyes. Its been going on since man has been on the earth. Jesus said it would be like in the days of Noah before He returns.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
However, there is no such thing as faith that has no works.
Galatians 5:6 "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love."
Either faith works by love or it is not faith at all, but only an empty claim and a lie.
That is James' point, James 2:17 "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone."
If our faith is dead, then it does not really exist. That is the point James was trying to get across to his listeners.
The degree of faith is always therefore judged by the degree to which it empowers what we are able to accomplish, Matthew 17:20 "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."
When there is little accomplishment there is little faith and so also little love. There can be a claim of faith and no accomplishment to that faith which shows that faith to not be real, it is dead, it does not exist in the land of the living.
Habakkuk 2:4 "Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith." (contrast is a disapproved person to an approved person)
"Live by his faith" To live is to be active with accomplishment.
So then, what kind of works is it that Paul was speaking of at Eph 2:9?
Ephesians 2:5 "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
"Just as faith does not really exist if it is dead neither can our works really exist in God's eyes if we are dead in sin. Therefore it all begins with contrition. That contrition is our faith's first work of love. And God blesses that with life.
Psalms 34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
Psalms 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Isaiah 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Isaiah 66:2 For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
That is a faith that works by love. Not a work born out of some effort of our personal wisdom. A work born of a contrite heart which loves God.
That work must be there in the beginning or God let's us remain as dead in his eyes. It is on the basis of that work of contrition by faith that God's grace bins to flow in our life.
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It is clearly talking about works which a man might be able to boast in. And those are works of a man's own wisdom. Works that a man of his own opinion deems as good. The kind of works which the man who does not have that work of a contrite spirit is able to have, so that he ends up when being rejected, saying, "But how could you reject me because I have proved that I am good!!! I always did what I saw to be good!!!!"
See that is what these ones are in effect saying to God, Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
They were dead but thought they could choose to do good and God would have to recognize that of them. They were too blind by their being spiritually dead to see that they had no real perception as to how to choose what was good.
Therefore God looks for the work which comes not of such a man's wisdom but of the spirit of his contrite (or, repentant) heart revealing that man's true faith and love toward God.
Then God can teach this man to have works that are not deemed as good of his own wisdom, but instead work's that God deems as good.
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When I first devoted my life to God I prayed to God about whether or not I should be baptized. This is the verse God gave me and what God told me.
[h=3]Romans 2:27-29[/h]God said to me; "just as
[SUP]27 [/SUP]The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
So also
[SUP]27 [/SUP]The one who is not BAPTIZED physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and BAPTISM, are a lawbreaker.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is BAPTISM merely outward and physical. [SUP]29 [/SUP]No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and BAPTISM is BAPTISM of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God."
So I asked God if I should then be baptized and God showed me verse after verse first Jesus baptism, then Saul's, and one after another from scripture being baptized. So I went to my pastor and asked to receive baptism physically even though I was already baptized inwardly.
Outward or physical baptism is just symbolic and witness to others of faith. It is important but meaningless without inward baptism. So then is baptism essential for salvation? Yes it is but not outwardly. Inward baptism is essential. What does baptism symbolize? It is symbolic of cleansing and rebirth. We all know you have to be born again to enter the kingdom of God. It is not the outward body that is cleansed or reborn but the inward. Baptism is baptism of the soul not baptism of the body. Baptism of the body is symbolic and important enough that Jesus told John “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.”
Outward baptism is not essential however it is important as a testimony or witness to faith. Inward baptism is essential. True baptism is inward but outward baptism should entail breaking through water. It is symbolic of rebirth. When a child is born they break through their mothers "water." Don't we all know that when a woman's "water" breaks it is a sign new life is coming forth? So also with symbolic outward baptism it is important that the person breaks through water. This means true physical baptism requires submersion.
May God's love and peace and Joy be with all of you by the power of the Spirit of God.
[h=3]Romans 2:27-29[/h]God said to me; "just as
[SUP]27 [/SUP]The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
So also
[SUP]27 [/SUP]The one who is not BAPTIZED physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and BAPTISM, are a lawbreaker.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is BAPTISM merely outward and physical. [SUP]29 [/SUP]No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and BAPTISM is BAPTISM of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God."
So I asked God if I should then be baptized and God showed me verse after verse first Jesus baptism, then Saul's, and one after another from scripture being baptized. So I went to my pastor and asked to receive baptism physically even though I was already baptized inwardly.
Outward or physical baptism is just symbolic and witness to others of faith. It is important but meaningless without inward baptism. So then is baptism essential for salvation? Yes it is but not outwardly. Inward baptism is essential. What does baptism symbolize? It is symbolic of cleansing and rebirth. We all know you have to be born again to enter the kingdom of God. It is not the outward body that is cleansed or reborn but the inward. Baptism is baptism of the soul not baptism of the body. Baptism of the body is symbolic and important enough that Jesus told John “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.”
Outward baptism is not essential however it is important as a testimony or witness to faith. Inward baptism is essential. True baptism is inward but outward baptism should entail breaking through water. It is symbolic of rebirth. When a child is born they break through their mothers "water." Don't we all know that when a woman's "water" breaks it is a sign new life is coming forth? So also with symbolic outward baptism it is important that the person breaks through water. This means true physical baptism requires submersion.
May God's love and peace and Joy be with all of you by the power of the Spirit of God.
That is the best post thus far in this entire thread.
I have been trying to figure out how to say that but God chose you to say it.
Very well explained.