Is cessation an observation or theology?

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Cameron143: Thoughts about the book of Daniel
The book is full of symbology that probably was more intuitive to the audience to which it was written as the imagery today is strained and unfamiliar to the average reader. However, it uses familiar literary devices to demonstrate that in the conflict between God of the captive Israelites and mankind, YEHWEH aways wins.

Chapters 2 & 7: The metaphoric framework is based on Four Empires vs God's Kingdom

These framing chapters provide a view of prophetic visions using different symbols to describe the same historical progression. Chapter 2 A human perspective of a glorious statue made of four metals (gold, silver, bronze, iron/clay) crushed by a divine stone. Chapter 7 uses God's perspective: four terrifying beasts (lion, bear, leopard, terrifying monster) conquered by the Son of Man. The moral of the stories emphasize that all human political power is temporary and will ultimately be replaced by the everlasting kingdom of God.

Chapters 3 & 6: Use as the framing metaphors a Faithful Witness, Persecution, and Deliverance
These chapters focus on individual loyalty to God in a hostile pagan court, following an almost identical narrative blueprint.

The Conflict: Believers face an unalterable royal decree demanding worship that violates God's law (bowing to the idol in Ch. 3; praying only to Darius in Ch. 6).

The Trial: Protagonists refuse to compromise, are sentenced to certain death, and are thrown into an enclosed execution chamber (the fiery furnace vs. the lions' den).

The Deliverance: God sends a divine messenger (a fourth figure "like a son of the gods" vs. an angel) to shut the power of the destructive element.

The objective of these stories is the pagan emperors praise the God of Israel and promote His servants.

Chapters 4 & 5: God’s Divine Sovereignty and Proud Kings.

These chapters at the very heart of the chiasm, these two chapters serve as a dual warning to rulers about the dangers of hubris against the "Most High." Chapter 4 (Nebuchadnezzar): A powerful king is warned by a dream, fails to humble himself, is struck with madness, but repents and is restored after acknowledging God's sovereignty. Chapter 5 (Belshazzar): A weak king sees supernatural writing on a wall, refuses to learn from his predecessor's history, mocks God, and is judged with immediate death as his empire falls. The moral of his section is YEHWEH rules the kingdoms of men and sets over them whomever He wishes.

In summary Daniel is an ancient book written initially to deal with the imprisonment of the wealthy, educated and priests of the YEHWEH worshippers by a powerful king who is taught a lesson about the power of YEHWEH. Their captivity only lasted 80 or so years but a great number of Israelites chose not to return to Jerusalem and formed a permanent Jewish community in what is now iraq until modern times.
 
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Cameron143: Thoughts about the book of Daniel
The book is full of symbology that probably was more intuitive to the audience to which it was written as the imagery today is strained and unfamiliar to the average reader. However, it uses familiar literary devices to demonstrate that in the conflict between God of the captive Israelites and mankind, YEHWEH aways wins.

Chapters 2 & 7: The metaphoric framework is based on Four Empires vs God's Kingdom

These framing chapters provide a view of prophetic visions using different symbols to describe the same historical progression. Chapter 2 A human perspective of a glorious statue made of four metals (gold, silver, bronze, iron/clay) crushed by a divine stone. Chapter 7 uses God's perspective: four terrifying beasts (lion, bear, leopard, terrifying monster) conquered by the Son of Man. The moral of the stories emphasize that all human political power is temporary and will ultimately be replaced by the everlasting kingdom of God.

Chapters 3 & 6: Use as the framing metaphors a Faithful Witness, Persecution, and Deliverance
These chapters focus on individual loyalty to God in a hostile pagan court, following an almost identical narrative blueprint.

The Conflict: Believers face an unalterable royal decree demanding worship that violates God's law (bowing to the idol in Ch. 3; praying only to Darius in Ch. 6).

The Trial: Protagonists refuse to compromise, are sentenced to certain death, and are thrown into an enclosed execution chamber (the fiery furnace vs. the lions' den).

The Deliverance: God sends a divine messenger (a fourth figure "like a son of the gods" vs. an angel) to shut the power of the destructive element.

The objective of these stories is the pagan emperors praise the God of Israel and promote His servants.

Chapters 4 & 5: God’s Divine Sovereignty and Proud Kings.

These chapters at the very heart of the chiasm, these two chapters serve as a dual warning to rulers about the dangers of hubris against the "Most High." Chapter 4 (Nebuchadnezzar): A powerful king is warned by a dream, fails to humble himself, is struck with madness, but repents and is restored after acknowledging God's sovereignty. Chapter 5 (Belshazzar): A weak king sees supernatural writing on a wall, refuses to learn from his predecessor's history, mocks God, and is judged with immediate death as his empire falls. The moral of his section is YEHWEH rules the kingdoms of men and sets over them whomever He wishes.

In summary Daniel is an ancient book written initially to deal with the imprisonment of the wealthy, educated and priests of the YEHWEH worshippers by a powerful king who is taught a lesson about the power of YEHWEH. Their captivity only lasted 80 or so years but a great number of Israelites chose not to return to Jerusalem and formed a permanent Jewish community in what is now iraq until modern times.
That's not a bad overview. There's much more there but as a starting point this is very good. Thanks for sharing.
 
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Right. Anything beyond chapter 12 I believe is extra biblical.

You are correct about the language breakdown. Why is this significant?

Also, chapters 2-7 are a chiasm. 2 and 7 go together. 3 and 6 go together. And 4 and 5 go together. Can you explain how?
Jesus authenticated the book of Daniel and the fact Daniel wrote it.
 
How many chapters does the book of Daniel have in your Bible?
Man... you always go off into places that leave no one with something to think with, and to know they have truth.

Makes no difference. That fact is. What the Book of Daniel teaches is truth.
How it got there? Makes no difference as long as it is truth.
 
Man... you always go off into places that leave no one with something to think with, and to know they have truth.

Makes no difference. That fact is. What the Book of Daniel teaches is truth.
How it got there? Makes no difference as long as it is truth.
I have no problem with what the Bible teaches. I ask questions of people to see what they know. Lots of people trying to teach who ought to be being taught and not teaching.
 
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I have no problem with what the Bible teaches. I ask questions of people to see what they know. Lots of people trying to teach who ought to be being taught and not teaching.

The ones who teach TULIP should be first on that list.

Imagine God needing to force someone to love Him?
That's how bad it sounds...
 
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The ones who teach TULIP should be first on that list.

Imagine God needing to force someone to love Him?
That's how bad it sounds...
No one who believes TULIP believes God forces anyone. Fake News. Just another liberal talking point.
 
No one who believes TULIP believes God forces anyone. Fake News. Just another liberal talking point.

No one who teaches TULIP is willing to understand what it is they are actually saying.

Limited atonement?
That is a slap in the face of Jesus, who died for the sins of the entire world!

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours
but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2​

But must we argue without end those who believe in limited atonement?

It's a bog-down way of wrong thinking for apostates to get their arms wrapped around the ankles of those who want to walk in sound doctrine.
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours
but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2​
Now go find a way to drag that into another drawn-out, go-nowhere, argument?

That's what you do!

You want to wear people out.
Not edify them.


It makes you feel smarter than they are.
 
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No one who teaches TULIP is willing to understand what it is they are actually saying.

Limited atonement?
That is a slap in the face of Jesus, who died for the sins of the entire world!

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours
but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2​

But must we argue without end those who believe in limited atonement?

It's a bog-down way of wrong thinking for apostates to get their arms wrapped around the ankles of those who want to walk in sound doctrine.
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours
but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2​
Now go find a way to drag that into another drawn-out, go-nowhere, argument?

That's what you do!

You want to wear people out.
Not edify them.


It makes you feel smarter than they are.
You know what else you find by asking questions? You find out whose behavior is consistent with one's supposed knowledge, and who can tame their tongues (in this case, fingers). Most cannot curb their emotions. James 1:26 reveals what is true of such.

As usual, this exemplifies you. Grace and peace.
 
You haven't followed the entire discussion here if you believe that.
You asked a legitimate question because the Hebrew Bible has different chapter and verse markings. Hebrew Bible does have different chapter and verse markings, and the differences are real, historical, and sometimes theologically significant. The key point is that the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh) and the Christian Old Testament do not share a unified chapter–verse system, even though they contain (for Protestants) the same books.
 
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You know what else you find by asking questions? You find out whose behavior is consistent with one's supposed knowledge, and who can tame their tongues (in this case, fingers). Most cannot curb their emotions. James 1:26 reveals what is true of such.

As usual, this exemplifies you. Grace and peace.

The Lord is teaching me to be like a mirror.

Not to take personally the negativity another has towards himself when looking in the mirror.


..........
 
Man... you always go off into places that leave no one with something to think with, and to know they have truth.

Makes no difference. That fact is. What the Book of Daniel teaches is truth.
How it got there? Makes no difference as long as it is truth.
If your framework of understanding the Bible is that everything you were told is the "truth" is the "truth" even if billions of other Christians disagree, then by all means hold your dogmas for life.
 
You asked a legitimate question because the Hebrew Bible has different chapter and verse markings. Hebrew Bible does have different chapter and verse markings, and the differences are real, historical, and sometimes theologically significant. The key point is that the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh) and the Christian Old Testament do not share a unified chapter–verse system, even though they contain (for Protestants) the same books.
A distinction without a difference....
 
How many chapters does the book of Daniel have in your Bible?
The book of Daniel in every standard Christian canon — Protestant, Catholic, and most Orthodox traditions — contains 12 chapters. That’s true whether you’re reading the Masoretic Text, the KJV, the NKJV, the NASB, the ESV, or most English translations. The only variations appear in the placement of the deuterocanonical additions (like the Prayer of Azariah, the Song of the Three Holy Children, Susanna, and Bel and the Dragon), but even in traditions that include those texts, Daniel itself still has 12 chapters.
 
How many chapters does the book of Daniel have in your Bible?
Jesus authenticated the book of Daniel and the fact Daniel wrote it.
Psalm 1:
Some Christian scholars suggest Jesus used the cultural language of his time rather than making a technical statement about literary authorship to make a point that His Jewish listeners needed to hear.....they didn't.
 
If your framework of understanding the Bible is that everything you were told is the "truth" is the "truth" even if billions of other Christians disagree, then by all means hold your dogmas for life.
You don't know me.... Confirmed.