Is cessation an observation or theology?

[TruthDefender]

Women are encouraged to teach other women. My wife has been greatly helped by Joyce Meyer as have countless other women. She also preaches principles that apply to men and women. It's no harm to listen.

Joyce Meyer submits to her husband and does not pastor a church. No one is perfect, but I believe that she is an excellent example of women getting ministry right.

Once AGAIN, I never said that we could not teach, but that it is forbidden for us to preach. This is 2 different things.

There is also a verse that says not all are to be teachers (both sexes). All of us are to be good examples….

Shalom, blessings

 

[Gideon300]

Once AGAIN, I never said that we could not teach, but that it is forbidden for us to preach. This is 2 different things.

There is also a verse that says not all are to be teachers (both sexes). All of us are to be good examples….

Shalom, blessings

Tell me the difference between preaching and teaching. I do both and I can't tell either.

 

[presidente]

Ummm....I have always understood that the commission is for us to evangelize. Those who travelled to other countries are the exception in scripture...Paul's letters are directed to 'congregations' and not travelling evangelists.

Do Paul's letters contain commands to believers that they evangelize?

Paul wrote letters to Titus and Timothy also, btw.
[/QUOTE]

 

[presidente]

Once AGAIN, I never said that we could not teach, but that it is forbidden for us to preach. This is 2 different things.

There is also a verse that says not all are to be teachers (both sexes). All of us are to be good examples….

Shalom, blessings

I don't see any restriction on women preaching in scripture. The scriptures that mention either preaching or teaching... mention teaching.

__Generally__ in our Bible translations, 'preach' is used for evangelistic proclamation outside of a 'church' setting.

 

[TruthDefender]

Tell me the difference between preaching and teaching. I do both and I can't tell either.

Preaching is getting up in front of a podium and usurping authority over ALL (women are to keep silent in the churches), teaching is helping those to understand Truth (we’re not usurping authority, just helping people by pointing out Truth).

“Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭14‬:‭34‬-‭35‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

There is NOT one example of a woman preaching in the whole Bible. This only came about because of the women’s lib movement from last century. Shameful!

 

[TruthDefender]

I don't see any restriction on women preaching in scripture. The scriptures that mention either preaching or teaching... mention teaching.

__Generally__ in our Bible translations, 'preach' is used for evangelistic proclamation outside of a 'church' setting.

The one gets up to give a sermon is called a Preacher (they preach).

“Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭14‬:‭34‬-‭35‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

There is NOT one example of a woman preaching in the whole Bible. This only came about because of the women’s lib movement from last century. Shameful!

 

[presidente]

The one gets up to give a sermon is called a Preacher (they preach).

“Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭14‬:‭34‬-‭35‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

There is NOT one example of a woman preaching in the whole Bible. This only came about because of the women’s lib movement from last century. Shameful!

Look, that passage isn't about 'preaching.' Like I said, 'preaching' shows up in references outside of the assembly (it depends on the translation. The KJV deviates from the norm in Acts 20.)

It doesn't call it preaching, but there were women who told the apostles of Christ's resurrection. I don't believe it uses 'κηρύσσω' or other typical preach words in any of the Gospels.

 

[TruthDefender]

Look, that passage isn't about 'preaching.' Like I said, 'preaching' shows up in references outside of the assembly (it depends on the translation. The KJV deviates from the norm in Acts 20.)

It doesn't call it preaching, but there were women who told the apostles of Christ's resurrection. I don't believe it uses 'κηρύσσω' or other typical preach words in any of the Gospels.

Statements like, “Keep silence in the churches”, and “not permitted to speak” are pretty strong statements.
You would have to twist that an awful lot to redirect their simplicity! OR, you can just delete it all together and pretend it doesn’t exist.

Warning: Rev. 22:18-19

 

[TruthDefender]

Look, that passage isn't about 'preaching.' Like I said, 'preaching' shows up in references outside of the assembly (it depends on the translation. The KJV deviates from the norm in Acts 20.)

It doesn't call it preaching, but there were women who told the apostles of Christ's resurrection. I don't believe it uses 'κηρύσσω' or other typical preach words in any of the Gospels.

I doubt very much they had Bible studies, like we do on Sunday mornings and Wednesday nights. Women do participate in the adult class, but normally never teach kids above the accountability age.

Once worship begins, women are silent.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

One of the best known churches in CA, who teaches the WOF doctrine is a hotbed of lies and deception. The 'Pastor's' wife died of cancer even though the husband believed she could be healed because everyone said so. And still people do not seem to
see the lies and hypocrisy when God demonstrates He is not at their command.

God always has the last word. I'm very sorry about your family members. I personally know of someone who would not take any meds or treatment, was in hospital because of advanced cancer...had 3 children and her husband was a co-pastor...and she passed away and her husband had remarried within a yr and good for him. I am sure he would have much rather she had got herself treatment.

At times, I have posed this question to those who are hard-line believers in WOF. "If you had been bitten by a dog who had symptomatic rabies, would you refuse treatment on the basis that you have been healed by faith - or would they take the vaccine?
I do not do this very often because I do not want to harden their hearts about it since, after all, rabies is universally known to be incurable as well as an utterly horrible way to die. I would likely advise them to go ahead and take the vaccine as a precautionary measure. This shows the dangers of dogmatically holding to WOF.

Issues relating to what is called Serious Mental Illness are also sometimes difficult to address because of the stigma associated with it and the fact that some fellow evangelicals believe mental illness is entirely due to demons. I have actually encountered people who had demons but, while it can RESEMBLE mental illness the demon always gives evidence of being a sentient being. As a Christian Counselor I have to discern the difference between people with damaged souls and those who are inhabited by demons. To tell you the truth, of these two possibilities, dealing with demons is easier.

By experience, I know that Christians can have mental illness since the brain is a physical organ which can malfunction just as any other physical organ can. When the brain's emotional/intellectual centers are malfunctioning, our inner spirit is taken for a stormy ride. However, I have learned (also by experience) how to ride out such storms of the soul while simultaneously feeling the presence and peace of the Holy Spirit. It is like the disciples being tossed about in a storm until Jesus who is in the boat with them says "fear not"

 

[wattie]

The context of women not speaking in the church, is of the disorderly conduct happening at the church at Corinth. In particular, about speaking in tongues done out of order/chaotically. The church at Corinth was affected by the paganism of the day. They mixed Christianity with it.

So, it isn't saying women aren't to speak at all for one thing. It's about disorder.

 

[Aussie52]

If women are to keep 'silent' in Church, then they can't sing or pray either. Is that what you want? Paul encouraged the women in Corinth to prophesy, so keep 'silent' did not exclude public ministry.
Paul's directive to Timothy was local not universal just like his directive to use some wine for his stomach's sake was a local directive not a universal one.

 

[TruthDefender]

The context of women not speaking in the church, is of the disorderly conduct happening at the church at Corinth. In particular, about speaking in tongues done out of order/chaotically. The church at Corinth was affected by the paganism of the day. They mixed Christianity with it.

So, it isn't saying women aren't to speak at all for one thing. It's about disorder.

That example had nothing to do with women preaching.

 

[TruthDefender]

If women are to keep 'silent' in Church, then they can't sing or pray either. Is that what you want? Paul encouraged the women in Corinth to prophesy, so keep 'silent' did not exclude public ministry.
Paul's directive to Timothy was local not universal just like his directive to use some wine for his stomach's sake was a local directive not a universal one.

Once again, false, since we’re all commanded to sing. No one sings alone, it’s done as a group.

Nobody prophesies today so it’s not even an issue.

The wine, just like the command about the women keeping silent, were universal statements.
Only elders are not to drink. The only command about alcohol is to NOT get drunk. This is pretty universal!!

 

[JimiSurvivor]

If women are to keep 'silent' in Church, then they can't sing or pray either. Is that what you want? Paul encouraged the women in Corinth to prophesy, so keep 'silent' did not exclude public ministry.
Paul's directive to Timothy was local not universal just like his directive to use some wine for his stomach's sake was a local directive not a universal one.

I agree that we cannot understand "being silent" as an absolute ban on women speaking. How could a women be expected to function as "prophetesses" giving inspired words (either sung or proclaimed) in order to edify, exhort and comfort or to proclaim the gospel if they are forbidden to speak? What are they supposed to do - use sign language?

 

[Lamar]

If women are to keep 'silent' in Church, then they can't sing or pray either. Is that what you want?

Regardless of what TruthDefender "wants" is this what Paul meant?

Paul's directive to Timothy was local not universal

Local or universal, was Paul telling just the women to keep silent?

I think the answer is yes, the women are to keep silent.

To what degree of silence, I do not know.

But I doubt it was an all-encompassing rule without limits but a rule nevertheless.

 

[wattie]

That example had nothing to do with women preaching.

I agree that women shouldn't have the pastor position, just more thinking about folks who say that women shouldn't speak at all. Peace

 

[TruthDefender]

I agree that women shouldn't have the pastor position, just more thinking about folks who say that women shouldn't speak at all. Peace

Speaking how? I’m talking about having the following roles/ offices as : preacher, elder, deacon, teacher of accountability age.

It’s not what I want, or you want, it’s what God says that counts. It’s pretty clear!

 

[TruthDefender]

I agree that we cannot understand "being silent" as an absolute ban on women speaking.

You act like we can’t say anything. This is not what it says. We can’t usurp authority over men and this is what would happen during a worship assembly or conducting a class.

There are no examples of this in Scripture so you can make a pretty strong inference using those verses.

How could a women be expected to function as "prophetesses" giving inspired words (either sung or proclaimed) in order to edify, exhort and comfort or to proclaim the gospel if they are forbidden to speak? What are they supposed to do - use sign language?

What you say doesn’t exist any longer. And I’m pretty sure they didn’t do it in the worship assembly.

The edifying, exhorting, and comforting is done on a one to one basis.

The Jewish women were also not allowed to speak, let alone be with the men. They were separated.
Idk about the modern Jews; but this doesn’t matter any longer.

 

[wattie]

Speaking how? I’m talking about having the following roles/ offices as : preacher, elder, deacon, teacher of accountability age.

It’s not what I want, or you want, it’s what God says that counts. It’s pretty clear!

Yea.. I'm not disagreeing. I agree those are men's roles.