Is cessation an observation or theology?

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pinebeach said:
The Apostles and those gathered in the upper room were not Pentecostal or Charasmatic or enlightened Baptists.

The Holy Spirit came upon those in the upper room on the day of Pentecost.
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Agreed but not sure what your point is and this is most certainly not happening today.

pinebeach said:
You apparently despise Pentecostals for some reason, but you are wasting that emotion on that denomination since there are people of every denom who speak in tongues etc
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I do not hate Pentecostals, I hate the lies that the Pentecostal movement has presented as physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit. These lies show contempt and a lack of reverence toward God.

These obviously false claims cast the Gospel of Jesus Chris as a fraud to the outside world.

On your mention of "every denom [sic]" who speak in tongues, there are many who follow in this sin besides the Pentecostals hence my use of the term "Pentecostals and their ilk".

pinebeach said:
The more you go on, the more you reveal a personal grudge and agenda. That, is why you should not be taken seriously
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The more you go on, the more you reveal a personal sympathy and allegiance to this ungodly movement and you should take my words seriously.
 
Lamar said:
I do not hate Pentecostals, I hate the lies that the Pentecostal movement has presented as physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit. These lies show contempt and a lack of reverence toward God.

These obviously false claims cast the Gospel of Jesus Chris as a fraud to the outside world.

On your mention of "every denom [sic]" who speak in tongues, there are many who follow in this sin besides the Pentecostals hence my use of the term "Pentecostals and their ilk".
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Why do you call a spiritual gift from God a sin? Of course there are false claims just like there are false Christians. duh

God does not need to defend his word but those who seek to tear it down will have to provide an explanation for doing so
 
pinebeach said:
Why do you call a spiritual gift from God a sin? Of course there are false claims just like there are false Christians. duh

God does not need to defend his word but those who seek to tear it down will have to provide an explanation for doing so
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Kind of agree. Real gold is still real gold, no matter how many fake gold are there.
I believe in God's super natural power every day. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. He creates and sustains our universe today and every day. Unless God allows, 2 sparrows will not fall on the ground.
 
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Churchgoer said:
Real gold is still real gold, no matter how many fake gold are there.
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Gold is considered "real" when it has been tested.

The "gold" of the Pentecostal movement is but fools gold.

Churchgoer said:
I believe in God's super natural power every day. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. He creates and sustains our universe today and every day. Unless God allows, 2 sparrows will not fall on the ground.
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No one is disagreeing with this.
 
Lovette said:
Neither did Paul see Jesus personally or any miracles performed, when he persecuted the early church, he was convinced that he was persecuting a cult worshiping a false messiah. It was precisely his personal experience with Jesus that converted him.
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Yes, that is why Paul did NOT commit the sin of Blaspheming the Holy Spirit which is unpardonable. Paul explains this himself in
2 Timothy 1:13
13 I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and a violent man; yet BECAUSE I had acted in ignorance and unbelief, I was shown mercy.
 
Lamar said:
What you are describing is typical of the Pentecostal movement

If you see a demon by all means attempt to cast him out. Just be cautious to not confuse a "claimed" demon from a "real" demon.

Pentecostals are well known for finding "demons" behind every corner.

Many here are quick to judge even the most mundane event as a physical supernatural manifestation. I suspect most here do not even understand the meaning of the term.

I think you are wise enough to know the difference between a miracle and a fraud.
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Do you yourself cast out demons -- or is this just another academic issue?
 
Lamar said:
Those that should be ashamed and fearful are those who label these false healings, resurrections and the mundane as physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

Those who are part of the Pentecostal movement and their ilk are guilty of this behavior regardless if they did the labeling, came to their defense or were silent on the issue.
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A. When a believer is sick or in pain, James advises us to do the following:
13 Is any one of you suffering? He should pray. Is anyone cheerful? He should sing praises. 14 Is any one of you sick?
He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.…
(James 5:13-15)
Does your Church practice this and, if they do, is anyone ever healed?

B. According to your dogmatic assertions if a person who happens to be a Pentecostal prays for a sick person to be healed is their prayer NEVER answered? Has the multitude of the mortal sins they have committed cut them off completely from any help from God?
 
Lamar said:
???

Where in my verbiage did get such a notion?
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You are the one who claims supernatural miracles have ceased. Am I wrong about this? Don't expect me to understand all aspects of your belief system. You can easily dispel any misconceptions I might have about your belief system by simply explaining yourself.
 
JimiSurvivor said:
A. When a believer is sick or in pain, James advises us to do the following:
13 Is any one of you suffering? He should pray. Is anyone cheerful? He should sing praises. 14 Is any one of you sick?
He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick. The Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven.…
(James 5:13-15)
Does your Church practice this and, if they do, is anyone ever healed?

B. According to your dogmatic assertions if a person who happens to be a Pentecostal prays for a sick person to be healed is their prayer NEVER answered? Has the multitude of the mortal sins they have committed cut them off completely from any help from God?
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What does any of this have to do with the issue at hand?

None is this has anything to do with physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit.

I understand that CS1 cannot grasp the meaning of a physical supernatural manifestation but are you ignorant as well?
 
pinebeach said:
Why do you call a spiritual gift from God a sin?
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Can you present any example of me making such a statement? I will wait for your reply.
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Lamar said:
On your mention of "every denom [sic]" who speak in tongues, there are many who follow in this sin besides the Pentecostals hence my use of the term "Pentecostals and their ilk".
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Your belief that tongues are not real or still valid, does not relieve your sin of calling this gift or any other, a sin.
 
Lamar said:
Agreed but not sure what your point is and this is most certainly not happening today.
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This needs attention too.

Obviously it is not happening in your life but it is most certainly happening in the lives of other believers
 
Lamar said:
Gold is considered "real" when it has been tested.

The "gold" of the Pentecostal movement is but fools gold.


No one is disagreeing with this.
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I personally don't know that movement well enough to comment it as "fool".

From ot to nt point of view, Holy spirit is very real. God do speak to people.
 
pinebeach said:
Your belief that tongues are not real or still valid, does not relieve your sin of calling this gift or any other, a sin.
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The supernatural ability to speak in tongues now and in the past in not a sin. The sin is simply claiming this ability is from God but not having the prima facie that would accompany such a miracle. Again, if supernatural physical manifestations were occurring today pinebeach would not need to defend it.

IOW, the sin is calling fake tongues supernatural and then defending the false claim.

Once again, where did I state that "spiritual gifts from God is a sin"?

I will wait for your reply.
 
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Lamar said:
The supernatural ability to speak in tongues now and in the past in not a sin. The sin is simply claiming this ability is from God but not having the prima facie that would accompany such a miracle. Again, if supernatural physical manifestations were occurring today pinebeach would not need to defend it.

IOW, the sin is calling fake tongues supernatural and then defending the false claim.

Once again, where did I state that "spiritual gifts from God is a sin"?

I will wait for your reply.
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Defending your own disregard for trying to say you did not use the word sin?

But I was not posting about fake tongues though. That is your department because you cannot prove real tongues are real so everying is fake to you.

You assume we are all dumb and cannot read where you used the accusation sin. Denial by you proves what is actually going on with you. You disbelieve something and therefore, according to you, it is not a sin to use the word sin. LOL! I can't say what you need to hear without getting a word from the mods, but you are quite ridiculous at the moment

You remind me of an atheist who does not know that God calls him a fool
 
Dino246 said:
You probably find "even less" in Scripture about manifestations of the Holy Spirit continuing today because the Bible was completed about 2,000 years ago.

While it is the responsibility of the claimant to support their claim, "proof" is a ridiculous standard because it depends on the recipient of evidence. Those who have already convinced themselves (usually by bad arguments) that manifestations of the Spirit don't occur today are unlikely to be convinced by any evidence.

I know what I have seen and experienced. I know it is consistent with things described in Scripture. I don't care who else believes me.
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The head of 1.4 Billion Christians claims the perfect guidance of the Holy Spirit on all matters of faith. The fastest growing Christianity on earth has reconnected with the power of the Holy Spirit. The do not all agree about the details and the meaning but they affirm the ongoing manifestations of the Holy Spirit. Those Christian communities that deny an active and powerful Holy Spirit today are in steep decline. Over 5 million Methodists and Baptists have left their churches in the last 15 yrs.
 
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pinebeach said:
This needs attention too.

Obviously it is not happening in your life but it is most certainly happening in the lives of other believers
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A rather weak defense.

A raising tide raises all ships.

IOW, if we were living in the same age as the New Testament all of us would see it, just as all saw it during the New Testament.
 
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