Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yet they judge us for being sinners, Because we have humility to admit we can not Do what God requires (perfection) when in reality, they have to water down the law (it is realy ok to do this sin, as long as we do not do that sin) to have any sense of believing what they do.

of course, we are sinners. Yet so are they, They just refuse to admit it. They make boo boo's or oopsies.. (I did not mean it God)

I can't think of any other way to understand why they believe the way they do.

What appears to be happening is that you are conflating the law of Moses with Christ's law, and saying that since no one can keep the law of Moses, no one can keep the law of Christ. And then you call such unbelief humility, and those who strive to be obedient to Christ's law are called (by others) prideful, self-willed, carnal, pharisees, D.I.Y. works salvationists, etc, etc, etc.

 

[JohnOne]

Galatians 1:6-9 KJV I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[valiant]

What appears to be happening is that you are conflating the law of Moses with Christ's law, and saying that since no one can keep the law of Moses, no one can keep the law of Christ.

we can neither keep the Law of Moses nor the law of Christ. Christ' Law in MORE difficult. It tells us to love the Lord our God with heart soul mind and strength. Who can do that.?

And then you call such unbelief humility, and those who strive to be obedient to Christ's law are called (by others) prideful, self-willed, carnal, pharisees, D.I.Y. works salvationists, etc, etc, etc.

To strive to obey is not prideful. to claim to obey is utterly shameless.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

we can neither keep the Law of Moses nor the law of Christ. Christ' Law in MORE difficult. It tells us to love the Lord our God with heart soul mind and strength. Who can do that.?

To strive to obey is not prideful. to claim to obey is utterly shameless.

IMO you are in unbelief and not a saved man. from mod " it is your opinon this person is not saved" that doesn't make it true . When one makes comments like that it really speaks to the person who make them I think . bring the biblical support but leave the offensive comments at the door thank you yet again I have this feeling I have asked this before of all hmmm .

 

[Grace777x70]

1 Timothy 4:1-2 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;[SUP]2 [/SUP]Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;"

Context, context, context.....

1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

[SUP]2 [/SUP] by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

[SUP]3 [/SUP] men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;

[SUP]5 [/SUP] for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.

verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....

.....this not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others..is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.

This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort...

It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.

.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[valiant]

IMO you are in unbelief and not a saved man.

lol the question is whether YOU are?

 

[mailmandan]

What appears to be happening is that you are conflating the law of Moses with Christ's law, and saying that since no one can keep the law of Moses, no one can keep the law of Christ.

we can neither keep the Law of Moses nor the law of Christ. Christ' Law in MORE difficult. It tells us to love the Lord our God with heart soul mind and strength. Who can do that.?

To strive to obey is not prideful. to claim to obey is utterly shameless.

It's just another way for works salvationists to try and "get around" such passages of scripture as Ephesians 2:8,9. They are basically saying that we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. We cannot dissect Christ's law from the moral aspect of the law of Moses.

 

[B1Davanda]

The obedient need grace to live godly lives and be conformed to Christ's image.

It's astounding that you and others are so blinded by the notion that any effort is a work of law. Satan really has snookered folks to make them think that grace and obedience are mutually exclusive.

Okay, two distinctions,
as I really don't want to argue with you,
but we won't even be able to reason together
if we have diff meanings of words.

First, when you say obedient,
I'm thinking completely, 100% obedient,
and if a person is always obedient, why do they need grace?

If they can be perfect by their own efforts, they're in, right?

But if they come up short on one point, they come up short,
so their obedience is incomplete......so just HOW obedient
does a person have to be?

Perfectly obedient=no need for grace.

Less than perfect=less than obedient=
=grace is necessary.
Man can't save himself.

Second,
Man also is dependent on God to keep him. .....

Are we saved by grace, but then kept by our own efforts?

No, it's saved by grace, kept by grace, brought home by grace!

Hallelujah! We get the benefit of God's grace, God gets the glory!

We have eternal security because of HIS DOING, not ours.

I'm trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ to save me and keep me,
not by any works of righteousness that I might do
But by His grace, mercy and everlasting love.

 

[JohnOne]

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Grace777x70]

Like this.....

Luke 6:46-49 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?[SUP]47 [/SUP]Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:
[SUP]48 [/SUP]He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

Amen...great scripture!...............we should be doing what Christ said to us or we will not have a proper foundation...

John 6:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."Believe in what Christ has already done for us in His finished work and become rooted and grounded in Him only for salvation!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What appears to be happening is that you are conflating the law of Moses with Christ's law, and saying that since no one can keep the law of Moses, no one can keep the law of Christ.

1st off, the law of God far surpasses the law of moses. The law of moses was just a basic law. Even jesus said in his sermon on the mount that the law of God was far deeper than the law of moses read.

The law of moses said do not commit adultry, If you did not commit the physical act of adultry, You were good. But Christ said if we even look at a woman we sin. So Christs law is far and above the law of Moses.

The part you do not get, is we can not even fulfill the law of Moses. Let alone the law of Christ 24/7, Which God requires. Paul in Galatians made it clear that God made a demand, One must confirm and obey every letter of the law. Or be under a curse.

That is whay condemns you, And your buddies who are stuck in legalism, and obedience as a requirement for salvation, You water down the requirements. We all agree, Obedience is required, IF WE WANT TO SAVE OURSELVES. God gave us the conditions. The law, You can not even fulfill that law. And you want the world to think you can obey Christs law? Wow man, Talk about pride.

And then you call such unbelief humility, and those who strive to be obedient to Christ's law are called (by others) prideful, self-willed, carnal, pharisees, D.I.Y. works salvationists, etc, etc, etc.

lol.. Unbelief? I am not the one going oround boasting of how good I am, Of how proud I am to be following "your version" of Gods law. Of how you are not like us evil sinners who reject Gods law (when we do not, we just admit we can not keep it, thats why we need a savior and grace)

I am sorry to sayyYour false humility stinks bud, You water down the law of Christ, and think your ok, When as has been said, you have not moved on inch, because your trying to move yourself.


Thanks, you just gave me more fuel to prove you teach works..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

we can neither keep the Law of Moses nor the law of Christ. Christ' Law in MORE difficult. It tells us to love the Lord our God with heart soul mind and strength. Who can do that.?




To strive to obey is not prideful. to claim to obey is utterly shameless.

more yet, It told us to love our Neighbor, and it told us who our neighbor is, Our enemy is out neighbor.

How many can agape love their enemy 24/7 day after day?

 

[mailmandan]

What appears to be happening is that you are conflating the law of Moses with Christ's law, and saying that since no one can keep the law of Moses, no one can keep the law of Christ. And then you call such unbelief humility, and those who strive to be obedient to Christ's law are called (by others) prideful, self-willed, carnal, pharisees, D.I.Y. works salvationists, etc, etc, etc.

Why don't you explain to us (using Scripture) what the law of Christ is and share with us how you have "perfectly obeyed it." Is that what you are trusting in to receive eternal life?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Galatians 1:6-9 KJV I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Yep. so if you add one work to the gospel. You teach another gospel. (They were adding circumcision)

So please. If your adding works, Read that to yourself. because it concerns you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

IMO you are in unbelief and not a saved man.

Look in the mirror.

You think Christ law is lower standard than mosaic law..

WHat more proof do you need?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What appears to be happening is that you are conflating the law of Moses with Christ's law, and saying that since no one can keep the law of Moses, no one can keep the law of Christ. It's just another way for works salvationists to try and "get around" such passages of scripture as Ephesians 2:8,9. They are basically saying that we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. We cannot dissect Christ's law from the moral aspect of the law of Moses.

yep. they have to water down that law so they can fit above it.

So many different churches, So many different levels of laws..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Yep.

And Gods children WILL walk in them

then do not walk in them to be saved, They walk in them because they are saved (made a new creature in Christ)

Thats where we differ.

People who preach obedience preach they walk to be saved.

People who preach grace preach we walk because we are saved.

WHo gives God the credit? the ones who save themselves? or the ones who ARE SAVED by God?

 

[Grace777x70]

Galatians 1:6-9 KJV I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Great scriptures...they show the judaizers that came in to add unto Christ for salvation by the things "they do". That is what corrupts the true gospel of the grace of Christ.

Galatians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why don't you explain to us (using Scripture) what the law of Christ is and share with us how you have "perfectly obeyed it." Is that what you are trusting in to receive eternal life?

He has yet to answer the question you asked yesterday. Don't ask him to many questions..lol

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Amen...great scripture!...............we should be doing what Christ said to us or we will not have a proper foundation...

John 6:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."Believe in what Christ has already done for us in His finished work and become rooted and grounded in Him only for salvation!

And whom did God send? God sent His Son who speaks the words of God. To believe in the Word of God, is also believing in every word of God.

John 3:34
For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.