Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional?
- Thread starter HeRoseFromTheDead
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Why are you trying to confuse the situation? I didn't say either of them did teach that. However, they do both follow hyper grace doctrine, which very definitely does teach that.
It truely doesn't bother me what is said....well slander is bad but that's because of the disparaging effect it can have on the gospel of Christ. I enjoy preaching Christ and the more scripture in context given out - the more it will help viewers that don't participate in these threads for fear of being attacked to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And some things we were taught in our church upbringing is hard to over come in our minds. I know ... because I had the same thing happen to me but the Lord was faithful and showed me His wonderful grace once I gave in to anything He was wanting me to believe about Him.
I can give you my experience with the term...if you don't mind because you didn't ask me directly.
Personally I never heard of the term until I read about it in Charisma magazine from Dr. Brown. Apparently there are some aspects of grace that he didn't like so he coined the phrase "hyper-grace". Now people can sometimes use it in a disparaging way but when you think about it..God's grace is Christ in hyper..lol
I have listened to over a thousand different messages from many different grace teachers from different denominations and not once have I heard that people can go out and sin all they want because of grace. In fact they say the exact opposite of that and say that true grace teaches us how to live godly in this present world.
They say that as they learn about Christ and His finished work they will grow in grace and become free of sin as their outward life reflects their inner man created in righteousness and holiness.
They say that sin is stupid and deceitful and it destroys the person doing it and those they love and is a bad witness for the Lord.
I think where some people get thrown off is the fact that Christians in Christ have eternal life which is what all grace believers say...well all the ones I have heard anyway. People that don't believe in eternally being saved are at odds with grace teachings.
I dont even know myself it comes up on a google search under "hypergrace teaching" one word
https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=hyper+grace+teaching&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
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Rosesrock
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That Joseph Prince is typically pulled up under the hypergrace accusations flying across the internet, not that it should matter because false and true reports fly by the internet everyday.
You speaking of eternal life in Christ or eternal life abiding in a person eternally?
1 John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
The internet is full of heretic hunters that have websites talking about what others believe.
There are websites saying Billy Graham is a heretic, Billy Sunday, Charles, Stanley, Joseph Prince, Charles Spurgeon, D.L. Moody, Martin Luther, John Calvin, C.S Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Osteens..etc....
There is even some websites dedicated to show that the apostle Paul was a heretic because he conflicted with Jesus's words.
Basically on these websites everyone is a heretic if you don't believe the same things that "they" believe.
Here is a whole slew of articles on the common myths of the so-called hyper grace believers in Christ.
https://escapetoreality.org/?s=myth
https://escapetoreality.org/?s=myth
There are websites saying Billy Graham is a heretic, Billy Sunday, Charles, Stanley, Joseph Prince, Charles Spurgeon, D.L. Moody, Martin Luther, John Calvin, C.S Lewis, John McArthur, Paul Washer, Osteens..etc....
There is even some websites dedicated to show that the apostle Paul was a heretic because he conflicted with Jesus's words.
Basically on these websites everyone is a heretic if you don't believe the same things that "they" believe.
Here is a whole slew of articles on the common myths of the so-called hyper grace believers in Christ.
https://escapetoreality.org/?s=myth
https://escapetoreality.org/?s=myth
I agree...here is what JGIG posted about this very thing.
Everyone needs to weigh what they see and hear - folks need to pray for discernment and listen to the Spirit of God within them and compare what they're hearing/seeing to what the Bible plainly AND contextually says.
Example in Discernment - Joseph Prince
Let me take a teacher who has gotten both support and raked over the coals here at CC, Joseph Prince. I've watched/listened to a bunch of his stuff, and in my opinion, he's one of the best teachers of the Gospel, the New Covenant, the Work of Christ, and the High Priesthood of Christ, and he lovingly and with good humor, builds up the believer in who they are in Christ. He also has a great ability to show how nearly everything in the Old Testament points to and foreshadows the realities that are in Christ.
That said, I think his teaching on the Lord's Supper is a little weird, and he does lean toward the 'claim your healing' mentality, which is, I believe, a reflection of his WOF 'roots' (self admitted). Those are the only things I have disagreements with him on that I've found (and I don't listen to him regularly, but have listened to a bunch of his stuff).
Regarding his teachings on wealth/prosperity, one needs to understand a few things:
- Joseph Prince defines prosperity as having what you need plus extra so that you can bless/minister to others
- Joseph Prince does not take a salary from his church (hasn't for years)
- Joseph Prince's income is from his books
- There are very active ministries at JP's church - they are not just a bunch of money-grubbing, selfish people looking to live in nice houses and drive nice cars. New Creation Church is a pipeline where money flows in, money flows out in ministry: New Creation Church - Outreach
- Joseph Prince's broadcasts - every single one that I've heard - ALWAYS says that they believe that your giving should go to your local church FIRST, and that if you feel led, that they welcome any support you feel led to give to them. There is NO 'sow your seed with this ministry and God will bless you' schtick AT ALL at NCC or preached by JP.
Heresy Hunters and Joseph Prince
Now some heresy hunters will often cite JP's self-admitted WOF 'roots' and then go about tearing apart Kenneth Hagin and every other WOF teacher they can think of in their articles that are 'exposing' Joseph Prince. Other heresy hunters will rip JP apart and call him a false teacher because he teaches eternal security.
Then the Reformed heresy hunters will tell us how JP must be a heretic because he believes that the gifts of the Spirit are for today. The Holiness heresy hunters will rail against JP's teachings about Grace.
FEW, IF ANY of them will have sat down and actually watched a number of JP's teachings and evaluated what he actually teaches, but instead join in the feeding frenzy of snippets taken out of context by other heresy hunters aiming to take him down. Meanwhile, his teaching is setting thousands and thousands of viewers free and his ministry is flourishing.
Where these types cross the line is when they turn a disagreement that they have with someone doctrinally on a secondary issue and turn it into "So and so is a heretic/satanist/controlled by a demon" type stuff. Gee whiz, people! State your disagreement, give your opinion, back it up with what you believe Scripture has to say on the matter, and let the reader/listener/viewer examine the issues and make up their own mind.
It's always instructive to look into the 'ministries' of these heresy hunting types - their overall demeanor, who they DO approve of and what those folks teach, and the fruit of their ministries.
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And it also would not be by grace through faith, but based on the merits of our performance, which it certainly is not. Salvation is not probation. Eternal life is not temporary life. Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.
So you repented of your earlier beliefs that all have wilfully sinned?->>>>>
By the way, it is not slander when you have proof persons like yourself have said as much in the past.
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eternally-gratefull
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So you repented of your earlier beliefs that all have wilfully sinned?->>>>>
By the way, it is not slander when you have proof persons like yourself have said as much in the past.
It is slander when you lie.
In both things you quoted. Grace used past tense, Are you saying you have never willfully sinned in your life? He said we all Have, I agree, I used to be a wilfull sinner, to. then I found christ.
Thanks you just proved to the mods that you slander others.
I do not even have to report you. the proof is in the pudding.
So Hopefully CS1 is reading the posts. so he can see what we all have been dealing with.
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eternally-gratefull
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So why did he not call it conditional life. Why did he call it eternal if it is not eternal? Did God make a mistake?
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