Is Eternal Security Conditional or Unconditional?

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Nice advertisement for the website, at least you admitted to where you get your doctrine from. Here are the forum rules for such....

13. No unauthorized advertising or soliciting or recruiting.
Please come to our chat rooms and forums for fellowship, not to try to advertise anything (not even in private messages to our chat room visitors) or recruit people for anything. By "anything" we mean anything -- web sites, chat rooms, forums, facebook groups, churches, groups, doctrine, etc."

Now go and report yourself.

Almost from day 1, seems like almost every day for the past 6 months, this individual has not ceased to spam this forum with links to that website. They have to number in the hundreds, if not thousands, by now. If that rule doesn't cover that, I don't what it means.

 

[PeterJens]

There is a simple problem here, and it started from the hyper grace crowd.

This group claim they were lost in legalism, unsaved and are now saved by realising the grace that is through the cross.
This polarised view becomes divisive because as an outsider to both camps you cannot stand apart from the argument, you are either a devil or a saint. Once labelled and told continually one is a pharisee etc. doomed to hell unless you repent, it is the hyper grace camp who created this problem.

I am sure there are saved and lost people in both camps, but the divining rod of OSAS or other ideas, just attempt to define love and the Kingdom in too human a perspective.

It is not slander to say Grace7x77 pushes this agenda, that evil has to be rooted out of the church or others from their continual attempt to condemn others based on nothing. What is clear, is these believers confess the impossibility to walk acceptably before the Lord, which is a denial of the power of the cross in the believers life.

Repentance and Gods grace is meant to act to bring us to righteousness, not a continual defeat. This version of faith seems to be show bizz, get wealth, health and power but overcome nothing of importance, and admit your faith cannot transform you, or the Holy Spirit dwelling within. This is not my experience, or the testimony of centuries of followers of Jesus.

So I wonder do these people know my Lord at all? Are you a rapest, murderer, liar, lusting after wealth, power, success?
Or answer yes but only on small scale things, but you want to follow Christ as well. This world is simple, that is no Christs Kingdom, He leaves this all behind, but have you? You can live in the world but not be of it, to love despite sin all around, to be wealthy in options, but desiring to serve and help, not exploit and put down. The fact this is an alien language to you, is probably testimony to so much you have missed in our Saviour. Rich or poor, your heart should rejoice in praise of good things, of purity and righteousness, things that are real and complete.

 

[PeterJens]

Almost from day 1, seems like almost every day for the past 6 months, this individual has not ceased to spam this forum with links to that website. They have to number in the hundreds, if not thousands, by now. If that rule doesn't cover that, I don't what it means.

I do not have the time to dedicate to this subject anymore, but I am surprised such a simple issue still continues.
These people do not seem to believe in the individual, but rather a more buddhist common experience of being poured into God. It appeals to those who truly hate themselves and humanity, which is a very human condition, and leads to the massive abuses you see down history.

What gives me perspective is how individual we all are, our whole lives, and how Jesus addresses this issue, one on one. But to know you are loved and also responsible is both a privilege and scary. But if you listen to peoples testimonies, they are all the same, God wants us to love and care for others from our hearts out of choice. Amen, and Praise His glorious Name, what a King.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is all there out in the open for everyone to see including the mods so I have no problem posting the links here again for all to see what happened and what is really going on here.

I will leave this in the hands of the mods. I trust they will look into this stuff as we are trying to clean up these threads so that people can have a safe environment to voice their views without being attacked or slandered.



I told you numerous times that I have no affiliation to any website. Here are the posts where I have told you 4x times the very same answer. Posts# 1322, #1325 and #1332

Obsession with Confession (1 John 1:9, sin confession)

I asked you back then to please stop with the slander and I didn't report it. Unfortunately you are still doing it so this has been reported to the mods.

I am requesting again for you to change your behavior on these threads. Thank you.

Well let's just make easy for them, so that they can see how you misrepresent the truth, and then level a charge of false accusation.

Post #1322. Did you provide a simple yes/no answer? No. You framed it in language that left room for doubt.

...and I have told you before that "no" still means "no" that I do not nor have ever received "material" benefit from giving people a grace-based view of scriptures by using this website...lol....this guy with the website has dissected a lot of the scriptures and has grace-based views.

I do however get great benefit from knowing people are being set free from religious views from man-made traditions and that they are being blessed with the grace and absolute love of our Lord Jesus and the Father for them!..that is why I share this great grace of the gospel of Christ.

Post 1325 is the same. Then in post #1332 you said.

So, you don't like the way I said 'no'...that I said other things while answering "no"?.........my goodness....so now you are dictating how to answer you?...and then to say if I don't answer the way you want....it's not godly or in love?....LOL.....I can see that I will have to keep my interaction with you to a minimum you keep your malice level from inflaming....

The godly, Christian thing to do would have been to put all doubt to rest by simply saying yes or no. But you insisted on playing the little game of keeping me guessing. Was that perhaps your way of seeking an opportunity to accuse?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I do not have the time to dedicate to this subject anymore, but I am surprised such a simple issue still continues.
These people do not seem to believe in the individual, but rather a more buddhist common experience of being poured into God. It appeals to those who truly hate themselves and humanity, which is a very human condition, and leads to the massive abuses you see down history.

What gives me perspective is how individual we all are, our whole lives, and how Jesus addresses this issue, one on one. But to know you are loved and also responsible is both a privilege and scary. But if you listen to peoples testimonies, they are all the same, God wants us to love and care for others from our hearts out of choice. Amen, and Praise His glorious Name, what a King.

Well I miss your presence, but I hope all is, and remains, well with you.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Almost from day 1, seems like almost every day for the past 6 months, this individual has not ceased to spam this forum with links to that website. They have to number in the hundreds, if not thousands, by now. If that rule doesn't cover that, I don't what it means.

Oh I know. All the mods need to do is pull up his first threads when he first started posting here and see how many of them are copy pastes from that web site pushing that "filtered" doctrine, and he is not the only one posting from that web site either. But let the mods handle it, if they want to allow it for this group, then how could they not allow it for another?

 

[Grace777x70]

Well let's just make easy for them, so that they can see how you misrepresent the truth, and then level a charge of false accusation.

Post #1322. Did you provide a simple yes/no answer? No. You framed it in language that left room for doubt.



Post 1325 is the same. Then in post #1332 you said.



The godly, Christian thing to do would have been to put all doubt to rest by simply saying yes or no. But you insisted on playing the little game of keeping me guessing. Was that perhaps your way of seeking an opportunity to accuse?

Here is post $1335
You can read my response again as I have highlighted it in blue in my previous post to you.

This is absolutely the last time I am going to answer you on your insinuations. I don't know what kind of malice you are attempting to convey.

I do not know what part of "no" you do not understand. I am not putting up the definition of the complicated word called "no" again.....this should suffice again for the last time....God bless you brother!



No still means no in the English language just because I said other things in the post is irrelevent..it still doesn't negate I had said "no" to your question multiple times. I am asking you again to stop with the slander as now you are saying I was being ungodly and un- Christian.

I will leave this in the capable hands of the mods. God bless you.....

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Oh I know. All the mods need to do is pull up his first threads when he first started posting here and see how many of them are copy pastes from that web site pushing that "filtered" doctrine, and he is not the only one posting from that web site either. But let the mods handle it, if they want to allow it for this group, then how could they not allow it for another?

Here it started (that I know of) a week after he joined, and it's been non-stop since then.

link > http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/127191-hyper-grace-51.html#post2384720

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They just keep regurgitating the same garbage over and over like a bunch of brainwashed drones for the service of Joseph Prince and his industry.

wow. Any hate in you?

Funny when your buddy over here was slamming people and calling them Gnostic based on some books written by men, Not inspired from God. And that was ok??

We see how you guys roll. It is ok if we do it, But you better not, No No No!!..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They just keep regurgitating the same garbage over and over like a bunch of brainwashed drones for the service of Joseph Prince and his industry.

Ya just joined your buddy. For two days I held off. But the stuff is getting old!


Reported, a blatant attack on someone else.

This my friend, is against forum rules..

 

[Dan58]

Everything is conditional.. We are here to meet those conditions, otherwise God would let us skip this human experiment and advance directly to eternal life. The condition is in John 3:16.. And to me, belief is more than a simple verbal requirement, it implies that a person also follows what they profess to believe.

If you were standing in the middle of a busy street and believed a car was coming, you would step off the street. If you didn't believe a car was coming, you wouldn't move. Its the same with Jesus, our actions demonstrate what we believe, and our inaction is evidence of disbelieve. "Keep my commandments" is what true believers try to do, assuming that eternal security is unconditional is a vice for doubters... jmo

 

[Grace777x70]

Here it started (that I know of) a week after he joined, and it's been non-stop since then.

link > http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/127191-hyper-grace-51.html#post2384720

Praise God! If you only knew how many people have Pm-ed me to thank me for the articles and videos that has helped them to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus and His glorious gospel!...you might rejoice with me in it!

Ephesians 6:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When they start asking for donations we will know for sure I guess? LOL

brothers and sisters, Lets not fall for these attacks, Just let them continue to do them. All they are doing is showing their true colors..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I get my doctrine from scriptures as you well know with the amount of scripture I put up every day on these threads.

I was merely giving the real name of the website as it was mocked and it is not a advertisement. That is not recruiting anyone - it just giving people an opportunity to read an article on a grace-based look at some scripture..whatever the topic is.

So, number #13 above has not been violated. "No unauthorized advertising or soliciting or recruiting" none of this was done.

If offering someone if interested a video or article on a scripture is against the guidelines - I'm sure I would have been told about it by now along with the many others including the videos and websites put up by the self-proclaimed heretic hunters.

If there is a teaching that you don't agree with then that is not reason to cry "wolf". Just give your scriptures that you want and let the Holy Spirit show us what we need to know. All is well my friend.....

Don;t let him goat ya bro, Just ignore the nonsense.. He is slandering you, Just let him keep doing it.. People who know you know the truth..

 

[psalm6819]

@HRFTD Hi brother, I'm praying for all of us that we will be able to let the anger go and that He will gentle our hearts so in our zeal to share what we have learned we do not loose sight of love, because having to be RIGHT sometimes becomes a matter of pride.

I've been guilty of that and I'm nobody special and I think that others have done the same.

It's not us and them it's we

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Almost from day 1, seems like almost every day for the past 6 months, this individual has not ceased to spam this forum with links to that website. They have to number in the hundreds, if not thousands, by now. If that rule doesn't cover that, I don't what it means.

Says the guy who calls everyone gnostic of "hyper Grace" which you got from reading books outside of scripture or websites yourself. and you have been promoting those lies.

Please stop. Your hurting your own reputation, you do this all the time, You slander others for doing the very thing you yourself do. Why do you think you can get away with this? Does it make you better than others?? What??

 

[B1Davanda]

Everything is conditional.. We are here to meet those conditions, otherwise God would let us skip this human experiment and advance directly to eternal life. The condition is in John 3:16.. And to me, belief is more than a simple verbal requirement, it implies that a person also follows what they profess to believe.

If you were standing in the middle of a busy street and believed a car was coming, you would step off the street. If you didn't believe a car was coming, you wouldn't move. Its the same with Jesus, our actions demonstrate what we believe, and our inaction is evidence of disbelieve. "Keep my commandments" is what true believers try to do, assuming that eternal security is unconditional is a vice for doubters... jmo

Not quite.
We weren't standing in a street and decide to jump out of the way of traffic,
we were dead in sin and hellbound. We didn't know we were even IN a street, let alone that there was traffic coming. God entered in the person of Jesus Christ, jumped in front of the traffic, took the hit and deflected the damage from us, (took the hell) we were supposed to take.
He also miraculously survived the wreck, carried us out of the street, breathed life into us, and leads us to greener pastures where there is no traffic.
Sometimes along the way, we wander back into traffic, and we may even get hurt, but we're no longer hell-bound, he's got us protected, and proves it often.

The story you brought up gives a description of the self-effort at salvation a certain handful on this site continue to promote.

But, Dead men don't jump.
We couldn't jump out of the path of traffic.
Jesus saved us. It's HIS way.

 

[know1]

If our new born experience was conditional, by believing and confessing, then why wouldn't keeping it be the same?
If God's love was conditional to Jesus upon keeping His commandments, and abiding in Jesus' love is contingent upon keeping the same, then why would salvation be any different?
If we had to receive God's truth to be born again, then if we reject the same, how abides the Holy Spirit in us if we rejected Him. Again God asks, can two walk together except they be agreed?
If the seed is the word of God or the gospel of Jesus Christ, in the parable of the sower sowing seed, which Paul and Peter say is necessary for one to be born again and to receive the promised Spirit, then what did God mean when He said that the seed that had no depth of earth and died, or fell away?
I have ample scriptural evidence that would, at the very least, cast reasonable doubt concerning OSAS.
It's not so much about works, but a condition of the heart.
If you had to believe in your heart to be saved, then you can change what you believe in your heart, even reject the truth, like the atheist I spoke to, and lose the same.
The word of God says the gifts of God are without repentance.
Was it a gift of God that caused Peter to walk on water, only for it to leave when He doubted?
Again, Peter didn't do anything wrong, except for getting in the natural and doubting.
There are many instances in scripture that point to salvation being conditional.
What about those who fail to walk in or after the Spirit? That in part, has to do with obedience or doing the will of the Father. The condition for there being "no condemnation", is contingent on walking in or after the Spirit.
What about the path or road that LEADS to life or death? Something that would take time to walk. It's not instantaneous. The road that leads to life is also narrow. What does that narrow walk entail? More importantly, what happens when you get off that narrow road?
What about when Jesus said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven?"
That conflicts with another scripture that says, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."
How is it that according to Matt 7, not everyone who calls on the name of the lord will be saved? How can both be the truth?
What about Galations 1?
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
What if the one preaching another gospel is a child of God? What does that curse entail?
What about the ones who were "removed from" Christ? Wasn't their remaining in Christ contingent on believing the gospel and not some other one?

Again, I believe salvation is conditional, but not so much of works, as it is a condition of the heart.
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

 

[blue_ladybug]

There is an evil heart of disbelief in many here.. Just saying.. It's crystal clear.

 

[valiant]

If our new born experience was conditional, by believing and confessing, then why wouldn't keeping it be the same?

But our new born experience is not conditional on believing and confessing. The believing and confessing is a RESULT of our new born experience. We are 'born of God'. THEN we believe and confess,

If God's love was conditional to Jesus upon keeping His commandments, and abiding in Jesus' love is contingent upon keeping the same, then why would salvation be any different?

But God's love is UNCONDITIONAL (Eph 2.4). By grace are you saved through faith.

If we had to receive God's truth to be born again, then if we reject the same, how abides the Holy Spirit in us if we rejected Him.

if we reject Him we are not born again !

Again God asks, can two walk together except they be agreed?
If the seed is the word of God or the gospel of Jesus Christ, in the parable of the sower sowing seed, which Paul and Peter say is necessary for one to be born again and to receive the promised Spirit, then what did God mean when He said that the seed that had no depth of earth and died, or fell away?

that the earth had not received the word of God, but had flirted with it.

I have ample scriptural evidence that would, at the very least, cast reasonable doubt concerning OSAS.

And I have total evidence that it is true, once truly saved, always truly saved, for it is GOD Who saves.

It's not so much about works, but a condition of the heart.
If you had to believe in your heart to be saved, then you can change what you believe in your heart, even reject the truth, like the atheist I spoke to, and lose the same.

the one who believes in his heart (with his whole being) will never reject the truth

The word of God says the gifts of God are without repentance.

the first truth you've spoken.

Was it a gift of God that caused Peter to walk on water, only for it to leave when He doubted?
Again, Peter didn't do anything wrong, except for getting in the natural and doubting.

no it was the authority of Jesus Christ.

There are many instances in scripture that point to salvation being conditional.

Poorly understood,

What about those who fail to walk in or after the Spirit?

they show whose side they are on

the condition for there being "no condemnation", is contingent on walking in or after the Spirit.

not it is not contingent on anything except the Father having justified him. The walking after the Spirit is a CONSEQUENCE.

What about the path or road that LEADS to life or death? Something that would take time to walk. It's not instantaneous. The road that leads to life is also narrow. What does that narrow walk entail? More importantly, what happens when you get off that narrow road?

read it again. it is the gate you enter that is all important. there is no way from the narrow way to the broad way. In Jesus book,

What about when Jesus said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven?"
That conflicts with another scripture that says, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

LOL they did not call savingly on the name of the Lord. They never entered under His kingly rule,

How is it that according to Matt 7, not everyone who calls on the name of the lord will be saved? How can both be the truth?

you're bringing up childish arguments now.

What about Galations 1?
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
What if the one preaching another gospel is a child of God? What does that curse entail?

He can't be a child of God, he is preaching a false Gospel,

What about the ones who were "removed from" Christ? Wasn't their remaining in Christ contingent on believing the gospel and not some other one?

where does it say 'removed from Christ'. You are careless in your exegesis.

Again, I believe salvation is conditional, but not so much of works, as it is a condition of the heart.

So who has changed God's eternal will? 'Who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our doings, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Yes the fellow Jews had to beware that they did not reject God as their forefathers had done.