Is freemasonry and rotary club the same thing?

[Jackson123]

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[TD]Organizations, Before 1905 (the birth of Rotary) and After
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[TD="align: center"]ROTARY, FREEMASONRY AND THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH[/TD]
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[TD]These badges were found by our historian colleague, Dr. Wolfgang Ziegler and triggered off a search for its origin which has not yet been resolved. The central part of what is otherwise a normal Rotary lapel badge, seems to show the symbols of Freemasonry, the set square and compasses, while the letter 'G' in the centre is also an indication of the Scottish Rite of Masonry. We know that many of the early Rotarians were Masons and that, according to C.R. Hewitt in 'Towards My Neighbour', some Rotary clubs recruited exclusively from Freemasons until the practice was banned in the 1920s. To

date, no precise details of these links have been found in the archives of either body.

The relationship was a matter of some discussion and in February 1923, an article in 'The Rotary Wheel' sought to allay fears among Rotarians who might think that their membership of the one could cause problems in the other.

However, many people who did not know much about these organisations, thought that Rotary was a form of Masonry. This eventually led to a much more serious problem when the Catholic Church, which had long been an antagonist of Masonry, classed Rotary as a similar organisation.
Also see the Ziegler Collection

G.K. Chesterton who was often a vocal critic of Rotary, was a Catholic convert. and his adherence to the sectarian line may have coloured his views.

The problems seem to have started in Spain about 1928 when the Bishops of Almeria, Leon, Orense, Palencia and Tuy laid charges that Rotary is "nothing else but a new satanic organisation with the same background and teachings of masonry" and that "according to documents and reliable sources, Rotary is a suspected organisation, and should be considered as execrable and perverse". The Church also criticised and condemned Rotary for showing a concept of life and of service without reference to church teaching. Indeed, it seems that they believed it a secret society with quasi-religious overtones as many in the Church thought was the case with Freemasonry. For whatever reason, the Vatican took up the reins and in 1929 issued a decree that "it is not expedient" for Catholic priests to participate in Rotary either as members or guests. This decree and its implications were worrying to the many Catholics in Rotary not the least the then President Tom Sutton who was himself a Catholic, and former Chancellor Germany Wilhelm Cuno, a member in Hamburg.Critical and at times disparaging articles regularly appeared in Catholic newspapers, especially in the 'Civilta Cattolica' in Italy, and Tom Sutton went off to Rome to try to convince the Papal authorities that Rotary was not Masonic, and that it was a movement which was not in conflict with any Catholic teaching.
Sutton's attempts to convince the Secretary of State in the Vatican, Cardinal Gaspari, were fruitless and the anti-Rotary articles continued to be published. An even more virulent article later appeared in Paris in 'La France Catholique' making allegations about both Paul Harris and the links between Rotary andFreemasonry, which were later reprinted in the Baltic paper 'Rytas'.
The factual errors could be, and promptly were shown to be false, and by 1933 there was a mood swing in the Vatican, perhaps partly occasioned by the number of prominent and influential Catholics throughout the world who were joining Rotary. Priests were now allowed to use their discretion about attending or even joining Rotary. Nevertheless, one of the results of the Church's attitude was the slow development of Rotary in some predominantly Catholic countries such as Ireland.
This uneasy peace continued until 1951 when another Vatican decree warned priests that they should not join Rotary and that "the faithful should be aware of seditious and suspected organisations".
By then, however, the world had changed and the decree caused an immediate angry response, among others from the then Catholic President of RI, Arthur Laqueux, and from the Rotarian Catholic Bishop of Fort Wayne, Indiana, who publicly declared the decree "quite incomprehensible".
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[TD]Fairly soon, the Vatican began to retract. The official newspaper 'Osservatore Romano' wrote "In some nations, because of a prevalent Masonic influx, the action of Rotary Clubs has conflicted with the activity and the needs of the Church. It must be said, however, that such has not been the case in other nations where the attitude of Rotary has shown itself in practice tolerant and benevolent towards religious interests."By the end of the decade, the Catholic Truth Society was able to declare that "Rotary is neither secret nor seditious". It was nevertheless still regarded as a "society banned under pain of sin only" and not of "sin and excommunication". Gradually there was a thaw in relations between the Church and Rotary. In 1970 Pope Pius VI addressed Rotarians in Italy, and in 1979 Pope John Paul II spoke to the International Convention in Rome, praising some of Rotary's humanitarian programmes at a special audience in the Vatican. Later he accepted a Paul Harris Fellowship and a World Understanding and Peace Award from Rotary, while Catholic priests throughout the world were taking positions of authority, even serving as District Governors.

As Alvarez points out, it was not only Rotary that was condemned during the 1930s and 1940s. The Lions Clubs and even the YMCA incurred the wrath of the Vatican. In fact, the condemnation of the Y.M.C.A. was even earlier in 1920 when it was described as "White Masonry", on the grounds that "such organisation, while showing special concern for the youth, corrupted their faith, teaching them a conception of life dispensing with the Church and all religious teachings. The Y.M.C.A. is contributing to the decay of the youth's faith, by affirming that its purpose is to show them a conception of life without churches or religious confession".

Basil Lewis

A letter on this subject from Paul Harris (left)



The following was provided by RGHF historian Calum Thomson: 18 May 2006
Paul Harris said the following: "fraternity without rituals, passwords and secrets".

Source - Jeffrey Charles: 'Service Clubs in American Society' chapter 1 entitled "From Fraternity to Service".

The quote is derived from Paul Harris' promotional brochures which were distributed to the early (potential) members of ROTARY/One.

Charles concludes his paragraph by stating "Harris' organization promised an informality and exclusivity that fraternalism could not match."
​

You can perform your own search at www.historysearch.org
All pages of Rotary Global History Fellowship may be translated using the "Google Translation" found on all pages. This page does not indicate any relationship between Rotary International and any Masonic organization.

قد تكون ترجمة جميع صفحات من التاريخ العالمي الروتاري زمالة باستخدام "ترجمة غوغل"
العثور على جميع الصفحات. هذه الصفحة لا يشير إلى أي علاقة بين منظمة الروتاري الدولية، وأية منظمة الماسونية.

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Further to the piece about Masons and Rotary​

Prince Conti, District Governor of D46 (Italy) in 1928 wrote: "Lately a few Catholic papers have shown doubts as to the origin and the work of our Association; and worse than that, they have tried to trace relations between Rotary and Masonry. These doubts of the Catholic press are not in the least just, and many Catholic priests belong to Rotary. We are sorry that such doubts exist, but we are not troubled, because we know perfectly well that no tie exists between the two Associations, and that in all our manifestations there is not one single thing that is not compatible with our consciences as Catholics and Italians and Fascists.

As the General President, Harry Rogers declared at the International Convention at Ostend, no tie has ever existed, exists, or will ever exist between the two associations. As President of Italian Rotary I declare that I would not remain in this position one hour if I had any doubts on this subject.

In this extract from an article in 'Rotary Wheel' in December 1928, Prince Conti hints at the problems Rotary was encountering in Italy as it was in Spain and Ireland.
From RGHF senior historian Basil Lewis, UK, 15 July 2008
Pietro Brunoldi (with help from Wolfgang Ziegler) writes on 22 July 2008:
Prince Piero Ginori Conti was NOT a President of the Rotary in Italy, but simply District Governor in 1928-29 (District 46), representing the district newborn in the year 1925. So, probably there was a misunderstanding (or bad translation) when he wrote District Governor..... probably by someone who didn't know the meaning of DG and interpreted it as President.

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[TD="align: center"]Following provided the RGHF member DG 85/86 John T. Capps, 8 September 2012[/TD]
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[TD="align: left"]1904 ??[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]CONFLICT[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]FOUNDER HARRIS[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]HISTORY TOUR[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]RESEARCH[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]SERVICE IS OUR BUSINESS[/TD]
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[TD="align: left"]1905 SOCIETY[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]CRITICS[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]FRIENDSHIP TREES[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]JAMES WALSH[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]RI ARCHIVES[/TD]
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[TD="align: left"]A PROJECT[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]EARLY LEADERS[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]GENEALOGY[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]LEVY[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]RI VISITOR[/TD]
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[TD="align: left"]ABBREVIATIONS[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]ETHICS[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]GOLDEN STRAND[/TD]
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[TD="align: right"]ROOM 711[/TD]
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[TD="align: left"]ADVENTURES[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]EVOLUTION[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]GOLDEN THEATER[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]NICHOLL[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]THE ROTARIAN[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]WORLD PEACE[/TD]
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[TD="align: left"]BABBITT[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]EXTENSION[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]HARRIS SPEAKS[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]ONE PAGE HISTORY[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]ROTARY GROUPS[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]WORLD THINKS?[/TD]
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[TD="align: left"]BIBLIOGRAPHY[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]FAMOUS[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]HERITAGE TRAIL[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]OTHER ORGANIZATIONS[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]ROTARY![/TD]
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[TD="align: left"]CARTER[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]FELLOWSHIPS[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]HISTORY CALENDAR[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]PEACE MONUMENTS[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]ROTARY?[/TD]
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[TD="align: left"]CENTENNIAL[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]FILM & AUDIO[/TD]
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[TD="align: right"]SECRETARIAT[/TD]
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[Elizabeth619]

People are all the time saying that all community organizations are part of the Masons/Illuminati/Devil worshippers. I do not support the masonic lodge but that doesn't mean that they are devil worshippers.
Anyone can trace back and club to try to find a connection but that does not mean they are directly affiliated with some type of conspiracy to take over the world.

I am a member of the Elks Lodge, and we get the same load of bull about how we worship the devil, yet one of the requirements is you have to believe in God. THE God.

 

[Tintin]

People are all the time saying that all community organizations are part of the Masons/Illuminati/Devil worshippers. I do not support the masonic lodge but that doesn't mean that they are devil worshippers.
Anyone can trace back and club to try to find a connection but that does not mean they are directly affiliated with some type of conspiracy to take over the world.

I am a member of the Elks Lodge, and we get the same load of bull about how we worship the devil, yet one of the requirements is you have to believe in God. THE God.

The Elk Lodge? Nice. Is membership deer?

 

[Elizabeth619]

The Elk Lodge? Nice. Is membership deer?

Benevolent Protective Order of the Elks. They use elk as a symbol of stature and strength. It is a large club for men and women who are involved with the community and national charities like helping veterans and, drug awareness. We also are the 2nd largest organization(next to the government) that gives scholarships.

As a matter of fact this month alone we are doing food baskets for the needy, plus a school supply give away to low income kids. We also help with little league baseball, and a league for disabled children called Buddy Ball.

Our meetings are considered secret because only members can attend, but no top secret rituals occur as many have tried to say. We have a prayer in every meeting by the chaplain and the bible is in every meeting.

That pretty much sums up what the Elks are.

 

[T_Laurich]

People are all the time saying that all community organizations are part of the Masons/Illuminati/Devil worshippers. I do not support the masonic lodge but that doesn't mean that they are devil worshippers.
Anyone can trace back and club to try to find a connection but that does not mean they are directly affiliated with some type of conspiracy to take over the world.

I am a member of the Elks Lodge, and we get the same load of bull about how we worship the devil, yet one of the requirements is you have to believe in God. THE God.

I agree, given enough time and research you can connect anything to everything...

In my opinion the verdict on the masonic club being devil worship: guilty. Now, not everyone in the club knowingly worships the Devil or knowingly helps his cause. I think the best comparison would be with the world, not everyone in the world worships the Devil, but if your not for Christ you are for him... It's the same with the masonic lodge but in a more sinister way. Since the 'elites' of the lodge do worship Lucifer. It starts out as a "do-gooders" club helping your community and the world, until you get into knowledgeable positions. Just the oath you have to swear to become a mason should raise alarms.


If you have some time here is my favorite video. It's by Kent Hovind and around 30 minutes (don't let the pic scare you, it's not all kooky as the pic leads to be)....

[video=youtube;CqCkTnLOLaA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqCkTnLOLaA[/video]

 

[pastac]

Traditions of men will take as many men as it can to wherever they will go within the tradition. Ignorance and acceptance and the its ok because of ____________ fill in the blank attitude is clear deception. Everything these so called orders and clubs do can be done from within the confines of the church! So why a different distinction and separation if they are so much in common? All the good and needy people might not receive it from the Church but they will the golden order of all us nuts club or the chickencat order of the divine goat or how about the dopey dingaling order of the sacred worm?

Does anyone not see how ignorant that is? Fish frys and car washes and raising money are commendable giving money to burned children, assisting helpless and needful, but hey the Church can do that too and should. Everyone has their own idea but research is warranted on secret sects and such as described in scripture. Some will make a case it is biblical then if so and Jesus sanctioned it I'm for it. If not and I really strongly doubt that he is.

After many years of study on that and many other questionable subjects I'm cautious very wary and suspecting because I see beyond traditions of men and seek traditions of God. The only order I want to belong to is the Holy Order of Christian Believers! OOps my bad I'm already a member. But I cant serve two masters. My affections to one will cause me to hate the other. Its hard for me to accept any order that is clearly causing many to be out of divine order. Just my thoughts.

 

[pastac]

Shriners
The Shriners organization is called the Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine, or A.A.O.N.M.S. It was established in New York City in 1870, and is an appendant body to Freemasonry. From its inception, the focus was on camaraderie, and Shriners use the phrase "Pleasure without intemperance, hospitality without rudeness and jollity without coarseness." The Shriners are a fraternal organization, and its members are bound by oaths of loyalty. The membership is limited to men that are third degree, or master Masons. Apparently there is no direct connection to Islam, even though they have a Middle Eastern theme in their dress and logos.

Freemasonry is shrouded in mystery, and many consider it to be a quasi-religious body. Conservative, fundamental churches commonly do not allow oath-bound members of such organizations to be members of their churches. Externally, Freemasonry exists as a social/fraternal organization and seems to exist primarily for social purposes. The belief system of the Shriners arises from their association with Freemasonry, but they do not seem to aggressively recruit members or actively propagate the teachings of the parent body.

The Shriners have several socially beneficial projects. The most significant one is the Shriners Hospitals, which they control through the Imperial Council, their governing board. While the Shriners do some good and admirable things, due to their connection with Freemasonry, Christians should not be members of, or associated with, the Shriners.



Read more: Who are the Shriners?

 

[pastac]

Eastern star
The Order of the Eastern Star (OES) is a secret society that is similar to that of the Masons. Both organizations work in concert, and many people belong to both groups. These organizations are shrouded in mystery and intrigue. Many believe Matthew 2:2 to be the guiding verse of the Order: “We have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him” (KJV).

The Order of the Eastern Star maintains that it is not a secret society. The group calls itself the largest worldwide fraternal organization. More than 500,000 men and women are members of the OES. The OES officially began in the mid-1800s in the United States. Dr. Rob Morris, the Poet Laureate of Masonry, organized the first Grand Chapter of the Order. Morris developed the rituals and creeds of the Order supposedly based on his belief in God and biblical stories. The OES began as a group for women who were related to the male Masons but now admits both genders as official members.

According to Eastern Star’s official website, the purposes of the organization are “Charitable, Educational, Fraternal and Scientific.” The Order supposedly promotes moral values and personal goodness, building “an Order which is truly dedicated to charity, truth and loving kindness.”

The purposes of the OES seem honorable at first glance, even biblically based. Why, then, is there so much secrecy? Jesus’ earthly ministry was very public. He did not shroud His purpose in mystery; He was open and honest with everyone regarding His teachings and lifestyle. He did not create a secret code word or handshake for a select few. He made Himself and His grace available for all, and still does (John 3:16).

The Order has several specific requirements that individuals must meet before they can be “adopted” into the OES family. Male candidates must be Masons, and women candidates must be related to a Mason in some way before they will be considered. Also, a candidate must have a belief in a “Supreme Being.” The official website says, “Members of all religions may belong to the Order of the Eastern Star. We only require a belief in a Supreme Being.” In contrast to this nebulous belief system, the Bible presents Jesus as the exclusive Savior and Lord. Acts 4:12 says, “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”

There is a common belief that the Order of the Eastern Star is a Christian-based organization that simply observes traditions and rituals that support fraternal and historic bonds. However, the OES teaches some things that are at odds with biblical Christianity. Besides denying the exclusive nature of Christ’s salvation, the OES teaches that man is essentially good and places a heavy emphasis on good works and community service as a means of earning a relationship with the Supreme Being. Also, the group is cloaked in mystery and mysticism. First John 1:5 says, “This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.” There is no confusion or darkness in God; therefore, as His followers, we should disengage from sources of worldly darkness, mysteries, confusion, and compromise.

Many people join groups such as the Eastern Star and the Masons innocently, for reasons such as family tradition or a desire to make friends or belong to a community group. Those who join for such reasons may not have given much thought to the works-based theology of Eastern Star. The Bible commands us to “test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1).

Philippians 4:8 says, “Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.” A society that is “secret” and ambiguous in regard to its theology is not analogous with God’s Word, which is the embodiment of light and truth. A Christian should not be a member of any secret society or organization that has any connection with Freemasonry, and that includes Eastern Star.



Read more: What is the Eastern Star organization, and are they related to the Free Masons?

 

[pastac]

Masons
Freemasonry, and other similar "secret" organizations appear to be harmless fellowship gatherings. Many of them appear to promote belief in God. However, upon closer examination, we find that the only belief requirement is not that one must believe in the True and Living God, but rather, that one must believe in the existence of a “Supreme Being”, which includes the “gods” of Islam, Hinduism, or any other world religion. The unbiblical and anti-Christian beliefs and practices of this organization are partially hidden beneath an outward appearance of a supposed compatibility with the Christian faith. The following is a comparison of what the Bible says with the "official" position of Freemasonry:

Salvation from Sin:

The Bible’s View: Jesus became the sinner’s sacrifice before God when He shed His blood and died as the propitiation (payment) for the sins of all those who would ever believe (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:8, John 3:16).

Mason’s View: The very process of joining the Lodge requires Christians to ignore the exclusivity of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. According to Freemasonry, a person will be saved and go to heaven as a result of his good works and personal self-improvement.

The View of the Bible:

The Bible’s View: The supernatural and plenary inspiration of the Scriptures—that they are inerrant and that their teachings and authority are absolute, supreme, and final. The Bible is the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16, 1 Thessalonians 2:13).

Mason’s View: The Bible is only one of several “Volume(s) of Sacred Law,” all of which are deemed to be equally important in Freemasonry. The Bible is an important book, only as far as those members who claim to be Christians are concerned, just as the Koran is important to Muslims. The Bible is not considered to be the exclusive Word of God, nor is it considered to be God’s sole revelation of himself to humankind; but only one of many religious sourcebooks. It is a good guide for morality. The Bible is used primarily as a symbol of God’s will, which can also be captured in other sacred texts, like the Koran or Rig Vedas.

The Doctrine of God:

The Bible’s View: There is one God. The various names of God refer to the God of Israel and reveal certain attributes of God. To worship other gods or to call upon other deities is idolatry (Exodus 20:3). Paul spoke of idolatry as a heinous sin (1 Corinthians 10:14) and John said that idolaters will perish in hell (Revelation 21:8).

Mason’s View: All members must believe in a deity. Different religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.) acknowledge the same God, only call Him different names. Freemasonry invites people of all faiths, even if they use different names for the ‘Nameless One of a hundred names,’ they are yet praying to the one God and Father of all.

The Doctrine of Jesus and the Trinity:

The Bible’s View: Jesus was God in human form (Matthew 1:18-24, John 1:1). Jesus is the second person of the trinity (Matthew 28:19, Mark 1:9-11). While on earth, He was fully human (Mark 4:38, Matthew 4:2) and fully divine (John 20:28, John 1:1-2, Acts 4:10-12). Christians should pray in Jesus’ name and proclaim Him before others, regardless of offense to non-Christians (John 14:13-14, 1 John 2:23, Acts 4:18-20).

Mason’s View: There is no exclusivity in Jesus Christ or the Triune God who is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; therefore there is no doctrine of the deity of Jesus Christ. It is deemed to be un-Masonic to invoke the name of Jesus when praying, or mention His name in the Lodge. Suggesting that Jesus is the only way to God contradicts the principle of tolerance. The name of Jesus has been omitted from biblical verses that are used in Masonic rituals. Jesus is on the same level as other religious leaders.

Human Nature and Sin:

The Bible’s View: All humans are born with a sinful nature, are totally depraved, and need a Savior from sin (Romans 3:23, Romans 5:12, Psalm 51:5, Ephesians 2:1). The Bible denies that because of the Fall, humanity has within itself the capacity for moral perfection (1 John 1:8-10, Romans 1:18-25).

Mason’s View: Through symbols and emblems, Masons teach that man is not sinful, just “rude and imperfect by nature”. Human beings are able to improve their character and behavior in various ways, including acts of charity, moral living, and voluntary performance of civic duty. Humanity possesses the ability of moving from imperfection toward total perfection. Moral and spiritual perfection lies within men and women.

When a Christian takes the oath of Freemasonry, he is swearing to the following doctrines that God has pronounced false and sinful:

1. That salvation can be gained by man’s good works.
2. That Jesus is just one of many equally revered prophets.
3. That they will remain silent in the Lodge and not talk of Christ.
4. That they are approaching the Lodge in spiritual darkness and ignorance, when the Bible says Christians are already in the light, children of the light, and are indwelt by the Light of the World—Jesus Christ.
5. By demanding that Christians take the Masonic oath, Masonry leads Christians into blasphemy and taking the name of the Lord in vain.
6. Masonry teaches that its G.A.O.T.U. [Great Architect of the Universe], whom Masonry believes is the true God of the universe, is representative of all gods in all religions.
7. Masonry makes Christians take a universalist approach in their prayers, demanding a “generic” name be used so as not to offend non-believers who are Masonic “brothers”.
8. By swearing the Masonic oath and participating in the doctrines of the Lodge, Christians are perpetuating a false gospel to other Lodge members, who look only to Masonry’s plan of salvation to get to heaven. By their very membership in such a syncretistic type organization, they have severely compromised their witnessing as Christians.
9. By taking the Masonic obligation, the Christian is agreeing to allow the pollution of his mind, spirit, and body by those who serve false gods and believe false doctrines.

As you can see, Masonry denies and contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture and numerous issues. Masonry also requires people to engage in activities which the Bible condemns. As a result, a Christian should not be a member of any secret society or organization that has any connection with Freemasonry.



Read more: What is Free Masonry and what do Free Masons believe?

 

[pastac]

This is why study is so important. Just because our parents or grandparent did it doesn't make it acceptable for us who claim to walk in truth!
With Love Pastac

 

[Jackson123]

What I heard is that Freemason in the first level doesn't know that they are worship Lucifer.

that elk loge is one of the toll to get people to Freemason.

 

[Elizabeth619]

What I heard is that Freemason in the first level doesn't know that they are worship Lucifer.

that elk loge is one of the toll to get people to Freemason.

Absolutely untrue. There is no connection to the organizations at all.

 

[pastac]

Absolutely untrue. There is no connection to the organizations at all.

Instead of defending a position that is not biblical find the biblical connection if any exist. Please do research on what you deny and not just surface study stuff dig into it then say absolutely untrue. I kinda think you might be surprised at what you find! When you are connected by family or tradition it is sometimes hard to even imagine you are wrong. But hey what if you are then what?Just a thought.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Instead of defending a position that is not biblical find the biblical connection if any exist. Please do research on what you deny and not just surface study stuff dig into it then say absolutely untrue. I kinda think you might be surprised at what you find! When you are connected by family or tradition it is sometimes hard to even imagine you are wrong. But hey what if you are then what?Just a thought.

i kinda think I did research the organization and instead of believing a conspiracy theory I'd rather research something with truth. Not ideas of paranoia. My guess is you know nothing about many of the organizations you slander but you read it on the internet it's evil so it must be true.

 

[G4JC]

i kinda think I did research the organization and instead of believing a conspiracy theory I'd rather research something with truth. Not ideas of paranoia. My guess is you know nothing about many of the organizations you slander but you read it on the internet it's evil so it must be true.

Found this, seems like a good cited source to me...

The Rituals of the Order

Although not considered secret, the rituals are nevertheless not distributed indiscriminately. The regalia and ceremonies of the Elks Lodge bear some resemblance to Freemasonry, which is probably the result of the Masonic affiliation of some of the founders of the Order. The most elaborate ritual is reserved for the initiation of new members.

Each meeting of the Lodge is opened and closed in prescribed form. The Opening Ceremony begins with the Exalted Ruler receiving the assurance that all present, including visiting brothers, are qualified to remain. Next, the various officers are called upon to review their duties. The altar is now arranged. First, the American Flag, emblematic of Charity, is placed into position and the pledge of allegiance is recited. Then, the Esquire receives the Bible from the Esteemed Loyal Knight and, while placing it on the altar, says, "This is the Bible, the Book of Law, upon which is founded Justice." (p. 26) After the members sing or the organist plays "Nearer, My God, to Thee," the Esquire receives the Elks' Emblem of Brotherly Love, the Antlers, from the Esteemed Lecturing Knight and places the Emblem on the altar. The Star, emblematic of Fidelity, is illuminated and then, to the tune "Auld Lang Syne," the brothers sing:

Great Ruler of the universe
All-seeing and benign,
Look down upon and bless our work,
And be all glory Thine;
May Charity as taught us here
Be ever borne in mind,
The Golden Rule our motto true,
For days of Auld Lang Syne.

The Chaplain, standing before the altar, prays:

Our Father Who art in Heaven, direct us in all our deliberations with Thy most gracious favor, and further us with Thy continued help, that in all our works begun, continued and ended in Thee, we may glorify Thy holy name. Enlighten our minds more and more with the principles of our Order -- Charity, Justice, Brotherly Love and Fidelity. Let the light of Thy countenance shine upon us even as the light of this star. Increase in us true benevolence, nourish us with all goodness, keep us faithful to our obligation, and lead us and all Elks beside the still waters of peace, for Thine is the power and the glory, forever and ever. Amen. (p. 28)

It is interesting to note that the first sentence of this prayer is the collect or prayer for divine guidance and help found in the hymnals of a number of liturgical Christian denominations. It is also noteworthy that the concluding words of that collect, "and finally, by Thy mercy, obtain eternal life," are omitted from the above prayer in the rituals of the Elks Lodge. Instead, the implication is given that all Elks will be lead to the still waters of peace because they have increased in true benevolence and have remained faithful to their obligation.

The brief Closing Ceremony consists of an admonition not to reveal anything of a confidential nature, the return of the Bible, the Emblem and the Flag to their respective stations, the singing of "God Bless America" and a prayer:

Our Father, Who art in Heaven, we thank Thee for the fellowship and accomplishments of this hour. As we began our session in acknowledgement of Thee and Thy goodness and mercy[SUB], [/SUB] may we close by asking Thy benediction. May the principles of Charity, Justice, Brotherly Love and Fidelity guide us until we meet again. Amen. (p. 56)

The Initiation Ceremony begins with the introduction of the candidate to the Exalted Ruler who informs him of the necessity "to take the solemn and binding Obligation of the Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks," assuring him that nothing will conflict with his religious and political opinions. The candidate then affirms his belief in God. (p. 34) Following a specified prayer by the Chaplain, the candidate is placed in a position to assume the obligation with his left hand over his heart and his right hand lifted above the altar. The obligation is then administered, in which the candidate swears to keep matters of the Order confidential, support and obey the statutes, uphold the Constitution and laws of the United States, not use his membership for business or commercial purposes, etc. It concludes:

If I break this Obligation, may I wander through the world forsaken; may I be pointed out as a being bereft of decency and manhood, unfit to hold communion with true and upright men. And may God help me, and keep me steadfast in this my solemn and binding Obligation in the Benevolent and Protective Order of Elks of the United States of America. Amen. (p. 37)

"Nearer, My God, to Thee" is sung, and the candidate is instructed as to the significance of the hour of eleven o'clock (see below). The members stretch forth their right hands in token of renewing their own obligations, while also reminding the candidate of the hand of fellowship and assistance offered to him by every Elk. However, the candidate is warned, "should you prove unfaithful, these same hands will be clenched to drive you from our midst and punish you for your infidelity." (p. 38) Instructions in the procedures of the Order follow, including the making of the "hailing sign." The "foundation and groundwork[SUP]”[/SUP] of the Order is revealed as "to do unto others as we would they should do unto us." (p. 42) The rituals continue with a review of the cardinal tenets of the Order: Brotherly Love, Justice, Charity, and Fidelity. A legend about the gods on Olympus (not 1 Corinthians 13) is used to teach that Charity is the greatest of all virtues. As a symbol of the patriotism fostered by the Order, a Flag is presented to the candidate. The recitation of the poem Thanatopsis is optional at the conclusion of the initiation.

Chief among other ceremonials is the Eleven O’Clock Toast, which "shall be" observed whenever a lodge is in session when the hour of eleven arrives. Its significance is to remind all brothers that "Living or dead, an Elk is never forgotten, never forsaken." (p.15) There are also specified rituals for Institution of a Lodge, Installation of Officers, and other ceremonies, each including prayers and religious sentiments similar to those of the chief rituals. The ceremony of Announcing the Death of a Brother, which is to be included in a regular Lodge meeting when appropriate, includes a prayer expressing confidence in God's “redeeming grace and power." (p.76). A vocalist or quartette sings one verse of "The Vacant Chair":

We shall meet, but we shall miss him
There will be the vacant chair,
But though we no more possess him,
Still our hearts his memory bear.
But a while ago we gathered,
Friendship beaming in each eye,
Now the golden cord is severed,
He has passed to realms on high.

Concerning the deceased, the Exalted Ruler announces: "He has passed into the light which is beyond the valley of the shadow of death." (p. 77)

In the Ritual for Funeral Services the Exalted Ruler says:

. . and again we realize that in the midst of life we are in death; that He who watches over all our destinies has the spirits of the departed under His gentle care, and on the last great day will again unite the chain of Fraternal Love so recently broken. (Rituals of Special Services, p. 23)

The ritual for the graveside service includes a prescribed prayer by the Chaplain which contains this concluding sentence: "Bless us in the benevolent and protective work of our Order, and so direct us in observing and advancing the principles upon which our fraternity is founded, that we may ever merit Thy blessings and approval. Amen." (Ibid., p. 26) In his concluding remarks at the graveside, the Exalted Ruler says concerning the departed brother: "May thy memory inspire us to deeds of charity, helpfulness, and love for our fellowrnen, and may we meet again in an eternity of bliss." (Ibid., p.27)

On the first Sunday in December it is mandatory upon each Elks Lodge to commemorate departed brothers. The ritual specified for the Memorial Service emphasizes more strongly than any other the promise of eternal life to all departed Elks. The Chaplain's opening prayer includes the words:
… we meet to honor the memory of our brothers whom Thou hast summoned to lay down the burdens of mortality, and to find rest with Thee…. Imbue our hearts with the inspiring hope of immortality that banishes sorrow and gives assurance of a happy reunion upon the shores of Thy fair land. (Ibid., p.34)

The Exalted Ruler announces:

As Elks we are taught that some day the mortal shall put on immortality. Firm in our faith, we are reminded by these services that we are born, not to die, but to live. True, the light of beloved eyes has faded from our sight, but it shines more brightly upon another shore. Voices we loved to hear... in fraternal association, are silenced; but they will live again in the music of the Choir Invisible, and blend forever in the harmony of angels. Memorial Day with us is a day of tender sentiment. Hope dries our tears, and with eyes of faith we may see those whom we loved and lost awhile, faring on through a better land, awaiting the day when the chain of fraternal love shall be re-united forevermore. (Ibid., pp. 34-35)

Preceding the Oration the Exalted Ruler says: "And may the Grace of the Grand Exalted Ruler of all enable us to derive from this ceremony renewed confidence that beyond the shadows there is life everlasting." (Ibid., p.36).

Evaluation of Religious Aspects of the Ritual

Although the Order has less emphasis upon religious philosophy in its ritual than Freemasonry, nevertheless the principles of the Order are promoted as meriting the approval and blessing of God. The Order is to be commended for its patriotism and its benevolent contributions to society. The sincere Christian will, however, be concerned that his desire to approach God only through Jesus Christ is ignored, in spite of the fact that he had been promised there would be nothing to conflict with his religious convictions. He obligates himself not to introduce at Lodge meetings anything of "sectarian character" only to discover that whole ceremonies are built upon the sectarian premise of universal salvation which he cannot accept. If used, the poem "Thanatopsis" confuses him since it denies all immortality, while ritual references give assurance of immortality. He hears of the "redeeming grace and power" of God, but sees it applied to men who reject the Redeemer. As a Christian he believes that his good works do not merit God's approval but are simply a response of thanksgiving and love to God for God's gift of salvation in Christ. (1 John 4:19) Yet at the graveside of a brother Elk he hears that observing and advancing the principles of Elkdom merit God's blessings and approval. The Christian is further disturbed when the Bible is used only as a Book of Law, certainly a lesser purpose than that for which it was given--to make men "wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus." (2 Timothy 3:15) Evaluated on the basis of the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, the religious themes in the Elks' Ritual--the prayers, hymns, funeral and memorial services--are incompatible with confessional Christianity. Officers of local Elk Lodges sometimes insist that some rituals are omitted and that funeral services are falling into disuse. Whether omitted or not, however, these forms still define the Elks' religious philosophy. Initiated members obligate themselves to these and all other ritual forms. Membership in the organization would compromise the public profession of a Christian's faith, something which he cannot do in good conscience.

Source: Lutherans Informed about Lodges

 

[Elizabeth619]

Found this, seems like a good cited source to me...

Source: Lutherans Informed about Lodges

"probably a result"?
Seriously? Probably is a speculation. Most organizations whether it is elks, rotary, kawanis, ect have the flag. Some even have the bible. When I attend Republican party meetings we have a flag, say the pledge and pray. I guess that is masonic too, huh?

Grasping at straws to find a link to something considered evil is nothing more than conspiracy.
As far as the "book of law" is concerned you do realize the bible is called the "perfect law of liberty" don't you?
The elks also do not deny Jesus. So in case you actually know what the organization is personally(whether one agrees or not) don't rely on the internet to find your truth. All you are going be is heresay. If you don't know if your source is factual or not how can you rightfully believe it?

Theres many sources online that states God is evil. Does that mean it is true or does that mean that someone was misinformed?

I will also add there is no government conspiracy within the elks like many say are with the masons. WE aren't supportive of the one world order and politics is forbidden to be discussed between members while at the lodge.

Preceding the Oration the Exalted Ruler says: "And may the Grace of the Grand Exalted Ruler of all enable us to derive from this ceremony renewed confidence that beyond the shadows there is life everlasting." (Ibid., p.36).

I have also never heard this said in a meeting or anywhere. This is false. One thing I do disagree with is the term "exalted ruler" I flat out stated before becoming a member I will not refer to any man as "exalted ruler". They were fine with it.

 

[pastac]

i kinda think I did research the organization and instead of believing a conspiracy theory I'd rather research something with truth. Not ideas of paranoia. My guess is you know nothing about many of the organizations you slander but you read it on the internet it's evil so it must be true.

therein lies your basic problem you guess but you don't know. Look e619 I have extensive inside information you may not have or be aware of. You seem to be real partial to to your position answer this why are you right and everyone else wrong. So all the information you gathered or studied proved Jesus approves of secret sects and such.

If you are ok with that then fine. All I said is I'm not as sure you have all the facts you claim or maybe you don't want the theories to be true because it tears away at your foundational beliefs. Not sure which but I am sure of this.

Jesus was our example and he did not belong to a secret club did he? You say you'd rather research something with truth. That means to me when you started reading things you did not like or agree with you shut down. I could be wrong but I'm not the one defending a position here. I only I repeat I only suggested research. real research.

Elizabeth 619 there are things you just don't know. There are things I just don't know. But for the sake of the gospel you owe it to yourself not to be blinded by the good your program does and look beyond that and see is it ordained of God or set up by man. In any respect your choice is still your choice. And slander an organization come on now you're grasping at straws deflecting the intent. That was un called for If you don't want to receive this fine but you cant call what I say slander sheese!

 

[Elizabeth619]

therein lies your basic problem you guess but you don't know. Look e619 I have extensive inside information you may not have or be aware of. You seem to be real partial to to your position answer this why are you right and everyone else wrong. So all the information you gathered or studied proved Jesus approves of secret sects and such.

If you are ok with that then fine. All I said is I'm not as sure you have all the facts you claim or maybe you don't want the theories to be true because it tears away at your foundational beliefs. Not sure which but I am sure of this.

Jesus was our example and he did not belong to a secret club did he? You say you'd rather research something with truth. That means to me when you started reading things you did not like or agree with you shut down. I could be wrong but I'm not the one defending a position here. I only I repeat I only suggested research. real research.

Elizabeth 619 there are things you just don't know. There are things I just don't know. But for the sake of the gospel you owe it to yourself not to be blinded by the good your program does and look beyond that and see is it ordained of God or set up by man. In any respect your choice is still your choice. And slander an organization come on now you're grasping at straws deflecting the intent. That was un called for If you don't want to receive this fine but you cant call what I say slander sheese!

All I said to you was searching for info on the internet doesnt make it truth. You can find all kinds of info on the elks. Some true. Some not. This isn't a pick and choose of which one you want ot believe. BTW, there is no "secret" about the organization I am in. The only secret is members only can attend meetings and the secrets we cannot reveal is talking about not gossiping about others. It shows bad character.
I do appreciate your concern, and I will continue to look into things more, but if you really do not have factual info then it is slander. Many times organizations are built up to be something they are not.

I will give you one thing though, you mentioned earlier about churches need to be the ones doing community sevice. I agree 100%. Had my own congregation not become selfish and self indulgent I may never had joined the organization I am in. I wanted to help others and be involved with the community. I couldnt get my church off their butt. Sad, huh?

 

[pastac]

All I said to you was searching for info on the internet doesnt make it truth. You can find all kinds of info on the elks. Some true. Some not. This isn't a pick and choose of which one you want ot believe. BTW, there is no "secret" about the organization I am in. The only secret is members only can attend meetings and the secrets we cannot reveal is talking about not gossiping about others. It shows bad character.
I do appreciate your concern, and I will continue to look into things more, but if you really do not have factual info then it is slander. Many times organizations are built up to be something they are not.

I will give you one thing though, you mentioned earlier about churches need to be the ones doing community sevice. I agree 100%. Had my own congregation not become selfish and self indulgent I may never had joined the organization I am in. I wanted to help others and be involved with the community. I couldnt get my church off their butt. Sad, huh?

I was raised around masons eastern star all that junk. It was weird to me as a child and I never really grasped all the funny costumes, hanshakes word and phrases ect. The older I got the more my grandfather tried to pull me into that. I wanted nothing to do with it as I wanted to be a preacher. Imagine that a boy wanting to be a preacher you guessed it all that went with that. I got older about 10 or so and was brought to an initiation or rite of passage into a knights of phytargous or something weird like that I was scared and stood there while they taught the secret handshake and taught all us little young 10 year old boys this stuff.

Stuff I remember vividly to this day and stuff you don't teach outsiders. I told my mom of this when I got home and lets just say I did not have to join. But I said things that I had to release later in life because I opened a door into a realm of the unknown.I never went back after that. I got older and more involved in the church. My great grandfather wanted to talk to me said he wanted to bless me and make my life better. He wanted me to take his apron gavel hat gloves and book of knowledge as he was a 33 degree mason and had all this stuff. I refused and told him I did not think God wanted me to join that stuff. This angered him and he said I would never be blessed unless I took that stuff. Imagine that. This is my great-grandfather pronouncing a active curse on his great grandson,cursing me for not taking items I did not want! Anyway I went on to seminary got my degrees and studied extensively in the area of spiritual warfare theology and divinity. To say I went overboard is a understatement I thirsted after information and was shocked at all I found.

All I'm saying is don't be naïve everything on the internet is not a lie. All the information at your disposal will make you a better leader and example to them who you advise. I'm only suggesting look deeper into any organization outside the church operating sometimes with free license within the church. This is deeper than you know. Hopefully you'll get some good information it is out there you just have to find it. What is the God connection to the elks? They have stuff you disagreed with from the beginning grand exalted ruler is a clue this aint the boy scouts! Even though you did not say whatever you disagreed with you took an oath!!!

I know you did so just be wise sister. And if you are ok not choosing that course of action just always know . God is pleased with what we do in him not necessarily what we do.

 

[Sirk]

Sorry for the thread high jack but it reminds me of a somewhat funny interaction I had with the Masons. Our local Walleye club had their yearly gathering at the "lodge". I was there early as my parents were involved with setting up the walleye banquet. I was browsing the tables of merc that was to be auctioned off later that day when I was approached by 3 men dressed in very ornate robes and hats. I was a little surprised by them as they had quietly approached me from behind and caught me unawares.......without thinking I uttered the words....."are you guys the three wise men". Needless to say, they did not see the humor in the question from a 20something smart alec and did not so much as crack a smile or utter a word. I slept with one eye open that night. jk