Is God A Moral Monster?

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PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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so you don't believe the Bible either?
Dibby thinks idiots wrote it, PS thinks half of it was authored by Satan, and now you say it's a '
creation of man' that inhibits true knowledge?
Not authored by Satan, but authored by men who faithfully recorded the acts of sinful men.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
its like stealing from the biblical world view, to bash the biblical world view. by what standard is anything immoral apart from God?
Are you saying God gave Moses Ten Commandments and then promptly told people to do the opposite?

Remember God is unchanging.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,714
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It contravened the 6th commandment.
Romans 12:19
“Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.”
Moses wasn't avenging himself. He had in fact just plead with God for mercy as God was ready to destroy all the people, not just the 3000 the Levites put to the sword.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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Moses wasn't avenging himself. He had in fact just plead with God for mercy as God was ready to destroy all the people, not just the 3000 the Levites put to the sword.
The answer is in scripture. They were following a false god:

Neh 9:15-17 KJV
And gavest them bread from heaven for their hunger, and broughtest forth water for them out of the rock for their thirst, and promised them that they should go in to possess the land which thou hadst sworn to give them.
(16) But they and our fathers dealt proudly, and hardened their necks, and hearkened not to thy commandments,
(17) And refused to obey, neither were mindful of thy wonders that thou didst among them; but hardened their necks, and in their rebellion appointed a captain to return to their bondage: but thou art a God ready to pardon, gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and forsook them not.


The last sentence underlined is my God - the "I AM".
 

Sipsey

Well-known member
Sep 27, 2018
1,470
689
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It’s seems that in connecting the dots about God, some believe human reasoning is an adequate conduit to knowing God. The Bible points to God, creation testifies to God, and the Holy Spirit introduces one to God.

As Jesus told Nicodemus, one has to be born from above, to know God.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
This includes the parameters of what is good and what is evil.
God knowing the end from the beginning has set his sites on purpose rather than quality of life.
As a righteous and holy king he becomes what we have made him. A loving father that has no end to his kindness and mercy or a fierce warrior able to take down any strong hold.
The examples he has given should leave us in awe as we go through the old and new testament.
From the examples that the o.p has given to the book of acts where sudden death occurs on two that lie about their giving.
The 70 a.d destruction of the temple and of course what is to come as written in the revelation of his son our savior.
The question remains "Is anything to hard for the Lord".
Are we to question what is holy and righteous from the one who is? Who are we to council the Lord?
It would seem to us an unspeakable act to include women and children "innocence"in the destruction of a Nation.
But just the same this unspeakable act had to be carried out according to the word, wisdom, and for knowledge of God.
Let us always remember the Lord has no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
This includes the parameters of what is good and what is evil.
God knowing the end from the beginning has set his sites on purpose rather than quality of life.
As a righteous and holy king he becomes what we have made him. A loving father that has no end to his kindness and mercy or a fierce warrior able to take down any strong hold.
The examples he has given should leave us in awe as we go through the old and new testament.
From the examples that the o.p has given to the book of acts where sudden death occurs on two that lie about their giving.
The 70 a.d destruction of the temple and of course what is to come as written in the revelation of his son our savior.
The question remains "Is anything to hard for the Lord".
Are we to question what is holy and righteous from the one who is? Who are we to council the Lord?
It would seem to us an unspeakable act to include women and children "innocence"in the destruction of a Nation.
But just the same this unspeakable act had to be carried out according to the word, wisdom, and for knowledge of God.
Let us always remember the Lord has no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked.
They were a rebellious people. Often they turned away from God : -

Neh 9:26-29 CEV
(26) In spite of this, they rebelled and disobeyed your laws. They killed your prophets, who warned them to turn back to you, and they cursed your name.
(27) So you handed them over to their enemies, who treated them terribly. But in their sufferings, they begged you to help. From heaven you listened to their prayers and because of your great mercy, you sent leaders to rescue them.
(28) But when they were at peace, they would turn against you, and you would hand them over to their enemies. Then they would beg for help, and because you are merciful, you rescued them over and over again.

(29) You warned them to turn back and discover true life by obeying your laws. But they stubbornly refused and continued to sin.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Are you saying God gave Moses Ten Commandments and then promptly told people to do the opposite?

Remember God is unchanging.
This garbage argument again. The commandments were to ISRAEL, God's covenant people and SURPRISE, God didnt care much for the edomites, amalakites and the like. They had sinned against Him for centuries and their time was up, and God let Israel take the land He promised them. Dont like it? Boo hoo, stop faking the funk. Stop pretending to be a Christian when you're not. No true Christian casts such doubt on the word as you are doing.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,714
13,519
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The answer is in scripture. They were following a false god:

Neh 9:15-17 KJV
And gavest them bread from heaven for their hunger, and broughtest forth water for them out of the rock for their thirst, and promised them that they should go in to possess the land which thou hadst sworn to give them.
(16) But they and our fathers dealt proudly, and hardened their necks, and hearkened not to thy commandments,
(17) And refused to obey, neither were mindful of thy wonders that thou didst among them; but hardened their necks, and in their rebellion appointed a captain to return to their bondage: but thou art a God ready to pardon, gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and forsook them not.


The last sentence underlined is my God - the "I AM".
Yeah, obviously - there was God Himself in the pillar of cloud and fire, and on the mountain in thundering and smoke, and they were down there in full view of it all, worshiping the child-sacrificing destetable idol Molech with their golden calf. Probably raping and murdering babies is the noise that they heard 'like the sound of war'

is it evil for God to purge the wickedness from His people? To remove the impurities from His clay?
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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Who do I think I am? That is a huge question. "Know thyself" was one of the most important maxims of the greek world. In fact it was written on the temple of Apollo at Delphi.

However, I do have the ability to think, reason, contemplate and question. I have my own relationship to the divine that is personal.
I am able to say what speaks to me and what does not. I am not going to allow someone elses experience to usurp my experience of life whether they are modern or ancient.

God is not frightened of questioning.
Any God that would need to threaten me into a loving relationship ( which is impossible anyway, that's tyrannical) is not worthy of worship.
all you are doing is inventing a god in your mind. creating god in your image. i can also imagine a god, everyone is saved and they dont even need to repent and believe or do anything, they can be just as evil as they want and they will go to heaven. because come on dude Jesus is loving right. so thats why everyone is already saved. the bible? whats that? i feel like my doctrine is ok so its from God. im in my feelings about this
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Yeah, obviously - there was God Himself in the pillar of cloud and fire, and on the mountain in thundering and smoke, and they were down there in full view of it all, worshiping the child-sacrificing destetable idol Molech with their golden calf. Probably raping and murdering babies is the noise that they heard 'like the sound of war'

is it evil for God to purge the wickedness from His people? To remove the impurities from His clay?
They did the most awful things in the name of the LORD. Should people two thousand years after Christ be following the Old Testament LORD who led them to do such awful things?
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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They did the most awful things in the name of the LORD. Should people two thousand years after Christ be following the Old Testament LORD who led them to do such awful things?
Yeah. Its NEW COVENANT we got going on today. The Christ already came......... GET WITH THE PROGRAM. Its the same God from CREATION to Noah, to Abraham, to Moses, to Jesus, to Paul, to Revelation to eternity.

You guys whining about the OT have never read the book of Revelation have you? It includes like every plague in the OT pretty much. SAME GIMMICK again in the future.
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Yeah. Its NEW COVENANT we got going on today. The Christ already came......... GET WITH THE PROGRAM. Its the same God from CREATION to Noah, to Abraham, to Moses, to Jesus, to Paul, to Revelation to eternity.

You guys whining about the OT have never read the book of Revelation have you? It includes like every plague in the OT pretty much. SAME GIMMICK again in the future.
We all need to be ready for the Judgement. That is in the future, but in the "here and now," if we want the "I AM" to say "well done my good and faithful servant" we need to make sure we do not follow Yahweh, the god of the Pharisees, but Jesus who is coming again.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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We all need to be ready for the Judgement. That is in the future, but in the "here and now," if we want the "I AM" say to us "well done my good and faithful servant" we need to make sure we do not follow Yahweh, the god of the Pharisees, but Jesus who is coming again.
You are an absolute spiritual BUM let me tell you that right now. How many gods do you believe in? Yahweh is a different God from the I AM? DESPITE the context stating its YAHWEH speaking there? Man you know absolutely nothing about anything. Either you are just extremely dishonest in your posts about Yahweh or you are just dumb as a brick, take your pick.

Allow me to demonstrate to everyone how this guy is leading you astray:


Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The words that I have highlighted, one of them is your pet text: I AM THAT I AM, spoken to Moses, the true God right? Are we to expect that in the NEXT VERSE its a false god again where it says the LORD (Yahweh) God of your fathers? The word that I highlighted again there in yellowish is LORD a.k.a YAHWEH in the hebrew.

H3068 in Strongs if you dont believe me. Shut it down you've already been exposed. I hope nobody is buying your snake oil and following your path to damnation. I dont care what anyone says, you cant call GOD the devil or "god of the Pharisees" and be saved. NO WAY !
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
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You are an absolute spiritual BUM let me tell you that right now. How many gods do you believe in? Yahweh is a different God from the I AM? DESPITE the context stating its YAHWEH speaking there? Man you know absolutely nothing about anything. Either you are just extremely dishonest in your posts about Yahweh or you are just dumb as a brick, take your pick.

Allow me to demonstrate to everyone how this guy is leading you astray:


Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The words that I have highlighted, one of them is your pet text: I AM THAT I AM, spoken to Moses, the true God right? Are we to expect that in the NEXT VERSE its a false god again where it says the LORD (Yahweh) God of your fathers? The word that I highlighted again there in yellowish is LORD a.k.a YAHWEH in the hebrew.

H3068 in Strongs if you dont believe me. Shut it down you've already been exposed. I hope nobody is buying your snake oil and following your path to damnation. I dont care what anyone says, you cant call GOD the devil or "god of the Pharisees" and be saved. NO WAY !
The true God said:
For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. (Hosea 6:6)

“What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says the Lord; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats. (Isaiah 1:11)

Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. (Isaiah 1:13)

Who were the Israelites sacrificing to? This is paganism.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
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You are an absolute spiritual BUM let me tell you that right now. How many gods do you believe in? Yahweh is a different God from the I AM? DESPITE the context stating its YAHWEH speaking there? Man you know absolutely nothing about anything. Either you are just extremely dishonest in your posts about Yahweh or you are just dumb as a brick, take your pick.

Allow me to demonstrate to everyone how this guy is leading you astray:


Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

The words that I have highlighted, one of them is your pet text: I AM THAT I AM, spoken to Moses, the true God right? Are we to expect that in the NEXT VERSE its a false god again where it says the LORD (Yahweh) God of your fathers? The word that I highlighted again there in yellowish is LORD a.k.a YAHWEH in the hebrew.

H3068 in Strongs if you dont believe me. Shut it down you've already been exposed. I hope nobody is buying your snake oil and following your path to damnation. I dont care what anyone says, you cant call GOD the devil or "god of the Pharisees" and be saved. NO WAY !
I think people don't understand that Gods Love also separates Good from Evil and punishes the Evil.

Instead of telling God that He's not God because He punishes Evil, people should understand that Evil will be punished, and be thankful for it because it is part of our own protection.


I don't understand the thought that God is a "moral" monster because He punishes Evil. I think it just shows the total depravity of people. "Its wrong to punish evil because we are evil..." No, its not wrong. It is just. And that is why we need a Saviour.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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The true God said:
For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. (Hosea 6:6)

“What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says the Lord; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats. (Isaiah 1:11)

Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. (Isaiah 1:13)

Who were the Israelites sacrificing to? This is paganism.
And you didnt even touch my point just went off on the siderails again cause you got dumpstered. Exodus 3:14 true god according to you, exodus 3:15 YAHWEH (LORD) is mentioned false god, god of pharisees according to you?
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Yes, the "I AM" is the true God. That was soon after they left Egypt and then things went wrong, undeniably so......
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
113
The true God said:
For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings. (Hosea 6:6)

“What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices? says the Lord; I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed beasts; I do not delight in the blood of bulls, or of lambs, or of goats. (Isaiah 1:11)

Bring no more vain offerings; incense is an abomination to me. New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly. (Isaiah 1:13)

Who were the Israelites sacrificing to? This is paganism.
The Israelites were trying to follow the Way of God.

But they got mixed up with what was Important and what wasn't.

They Sacrificed to God because it was a foreshadow of Christ. But they didn't have this in mind while they were sacrificing. They didn't know. And this is why God didn't delight in it.


It is more a description of the coming of Christianity and the ending of Judaism than a description of paganism.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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Yes, the "I AM" is the true God. That was soon after they left Egypt and then things went wrong, undeniably so......
It did go wrong pretty fast huh, THE VERY NEXT VERSE, the same I AM calling himself YAHWEH. That went sour quick!