Is God outside of time?

[zeroturbulence]

God probably is outside of time. If Einstein's theory of relativity is true, then someone traveling at the speed of light for one year would age one year, but on earth everyone else would have aged 5 years. I'm not sure what the logic is behind it is but Einstein said that time is dilated when objects are in rapid motion. This was proven to be true by an experiment in Germany using a large particle accelerator.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/einsteins-time-dilation-prediction-verified/

 

[Nehemiah6]

If Einstein's theory of relativity is true...

This is not really relevant. The space-time continuum is probably correct, but we are discussion God being outside of time, therefore outside of this phenomenon.

God is outside of His creation, yet he is present in all creation. This is a paradox. But if creation did not exist, God would still be there as He has been from eternity past. But He chose one little planet for humanity, and gave men a way to measure time. In that respect time is important to God, and He uses the timing of certain events to fulfill His purposes on earth. "When the fulness of time was come, God sent forth His Son..."

 

[PaulThomson]

..before Abrham, I am.

so, outside of time...

God told Moses, "I AM ("eHYeH) THAT I AM ("eHYeH] Say the the children of Israel, "I AM ("eHYeH) has sent me to you."

Exodus 3:14 KJV — And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM ("eHYeH: uncompleted verb form of hayah) hath sent me unto you.

Biblical Hebrew had no past , present or future tense forms of its verbs. The temporal context of a verb was indicated by adverbs and context. Verbs were indicating whether an action or state was/is/will be already completed, or was in an on-going uncompleted state at the time indicated by the context.

When God said to say "I AM sent me," He used the progressive form of unspecified tense.
God gives His name as "I was being/I am being/I will be being." It is the Hebrew description that befits someone who is adapting to sequential events.

I would expect a Being who is unchanging and complete in a timeless now to use the completed form, "I was/I Am/I will be" with some temporal adverb to fix the verb in the present.

If John wanted to use Greek Grammar to convey the concept that the same Person who was existing now incarnated as Jesus of Nazareth had also been existing before Abraham was born, what options did he have?

Even in English we use the present tense to talk about a past event in a manner that presents it as an unfolding in progress replay to the audience's mind. Before JeanLuc was born I am in the video shop and three balaclava-ed men with shotguns are coming in shouting to everyone to get down on the floor. Is it possible that Jesus was doing something similar here? He could tell this story to some of His saints in the millenium:

"Before Abraham was called I'm looking over the planet for some man to found a nation through which I will incarnate..."
He is simply describing the past in a vividly immediate way.

If this linguistic tool is being used, "I am existing before Abraham came into being" is simply Jesus describing the past using a syntax that to His listeners' minds presents the past in a vivid way as it was when it was in progress, just as I could say " I am running marathons before my son was born," meaning that I am running marathons now but I have been doing so since before my son was born.

 

[PaulThomson]

However since God is "from everlasting to everlasting" time does not apply to Him.

That's a non-sequitur. Everlasting to Everlasting is endless (toward both non-ends) time. It does not mean without temporal duration.

 

[PaulThomson]

A

He is outside Our universe time.. Thats for sure..

And our universe's time is happening inside God. That's also for sure.

In him we live and move and have our being.
In Him all things hold together.

If God does not experience time (sequential moments) and all of history is always happening for God in a single NOW, every detail of history, both good and evil, infinitely past and future, exists permanently in God without beginning or end.

Do we really want philosophically to condemn God to staring at that unceasingly?

 

[PaulThomson]

Perhaps Eternity is when Time stops and we are just like God… He is creating us to be just like Him… His offspring, His children… the same yesterday, today and forever. We will not change anymore.

Satan is in an absolutely jealous rage because he wanted to be like the Most High….he sooooooo hates us.

The band Talking Heads has a song that said "Heaven... is a place... where nothing... nothing ever happens."

Is that your idea of heaven, Lafftur?

 

[PaulThomson]

Genesis 1:

And God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years,

Yes. Creating clocks does not equal the creation of time, any more than creating the metre ruler equals the creation of distances.

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

Since it is God who gave us the revelation of creation, He is also the one who counted the days of creation from day one (albeit in the Hebrew way of reckoning time with evening coming before morning - and sunset to sunset as the measure of 24 hours).

But on day four he put the sun and moon in the heavens to continue to measure human time. Lunar time was used by the Hebrews and Israel for months and years. The day was measured with a sundial in the Bible.

However since God is "from everlasting to everlasting" time does not apply to Him.

I did a word-study of the word "day" in the Bible not too long ago. I noticed that when the word "day" is used with humans, it almost invariably refers to the 24-hour day. However, when God is involved, the length of "day" has a much-longer meaning, for what it's worth. I don't think that the Bible has much to say about the subject one way or another, since God is eternal, and we're not. Yes, he gives us unending life, but we have a beginning; he doesn't.

 

[Nehemiah6]

That's a non-sequitur. Everlasting to Everlasting is endless (toward both non-ends) time. It does not mean without temporal duration.

You just contradicted yourself to say that my statement was a non sequitur. If it is of no temporal duration, then it cannot be related to time ("duration").

 

[PaulThomson]

PaulThomson said:
That's a non-sequitur. Everlasting to Everlasting is endless (toward both non-ends) time. It does not mean without temporal duration.

You just contradicted yourself to say that my statement was a non sequitur. If it is of no temporal duration, then it cannot be related to time ("duration").

To say "Endless time does not mean without temporal duration" is not contradicting myself, friend.

 

[Nehemiah6]

To say "Endless time does not mean without temporal duration" is not contradicting myself, friend.

Firstly, I was not addressing you, and secondly I never said "endless time". I said "from everlasting to everlasting". That's all.

 

[Karlon]

Lets discuss this together. I have said it, "God is outside of time." "Time is created"

Many people have said it, but is this anywhere in the Bible? A poster by the name of @PaulThomson wrote a question asking if this was so, biblically. And I would like for him and the rest of you to chime in on the subject.

What does the Bible teach? Is eternity OUTSIDE of time, or is eternity just time that keeps going on and on.

one glimpse we have of God's time is 2nd Peter 3:8

 

[Omegatime]

one glimpse we have of God's time is 2nd Peter 3:8

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8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

To understand time you must understand what the Lord has planned for man.

The Day of the Lord is the true Sabbath day which is a 1000 years, not just the 7th day of the week.

16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. 17 These are only a shadow of what is to come.

If you have studied time then you know what is shortly going to come upon this world

 

[presidente]

I don't see any scripture that backs this idea up. I've wondered the same thing. I remember hearing Hugh Ross say he read the Bible and said that it taught that God was outside of time, which was something that may have contributed to his conversion. I was tempted to send him a question to back that up. I don't think I'll hurt his faith at this point by asking.

I see in Jeremiah if something good is decreed for a city or nation and it does evil, then the Lord will repent of that good thing, etc. How is that consistent with the 'outside of time' thing.

Then people will say if there is time, God must have created it. Time isn't a thing like a tree or a rock. It's an abstract concept. There is also the idea that experiencing time might be our experiencing some aspect of God's nature. You could think of it consistent with some of the philosophical thought about the Logos, and universal truth. Did God create 1+1=2. That's a universal thing that all intelligent beings presumably can understand on some level. Did God 'create' that, or are we all benefitting in some way from the divine mind?

If God exists 'outside of time' that's interesting, but I don't see it in the Bible. Saying that God's name means 'I am' as evidence... that doesn't prove the point. That seems to me to be an argument based on circular reasoning, just assuming that is what the name implies, some theory for which there is no evidence.

This seems more like physics philosophy than Bible teaching to me.

But I am very open to scripture being presented that backs this up, without circular reasoning of course.

 

[Lafftur]

The band Talking Heads has a song that said "Heaven... is a place... where nothing... nothing ever happens."

Is that your idea of heaven, Lafftur?

No.

 

[Inquisitor]

God surely has a timetable and its no coincidence these things happen. The book of Revelation and the Bible in general is big on numbers. Number 7 seems to come up regularly. 12 tribes, 12 apostles.

The number 'forty' gets a workout in the scripture also.

 

[Inquisitor]

I can't answer that, but it makes me wonder; is 'infinity' a number?

Infinity is not a number.

Infinity is an idea that no one understands.

 

[Inquisitor]

Lets discuss this together. I have said it, "God is outside of time." "Time is created"

Many people have said it, but is this anywhere in the Bible? A poster by the name of @PaulThomson wrote a question asking if this was so, biblically. And I would like for him and the rest of you to chime in on the subject.

What does the Bible teach? Is eternity OUTSIDE of time, or is eternity just time that keeps going on and on.

Time is measured and is a finite quantity.

Infinite means that it cannot be measured.

There is not start or end to infinity.

 

[JohnRH]

Infinity is not a number.

Infinity is an idea that no one understands.

We can understand it enough to use it in math & technology - and in relation to numbers.
Same with eternity in relation to time. We can conceive of it in a practical way.

 

[Inquisitor]

We can understand it enough to use it in math & technology - and in relation to numbers.
Same with eternity in relation to time. We can conceive of it in a practical way.

That is not true.

Infinity is not a finite number and cannot be employed in mathematics.

Infinity is a concept that is beyond human comprehension.

Infinity is not a measurement therefore, the word infinity has no place
in science.

Science is based on observation, measurement, repeatable experiments.

Infinity cannot be observed, measured, or demonstrated in experiments.

Infinity is an idea only and no one can comprehend the meaning of the word
'infinity'.

Mankind exists as a temporal entity, we have a start and a finish, even all our
thoughts are temporal thoughts.