Is God really in control?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JoyofLord
  • Start date Start date
  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
JoyoftheLord: You might say that suffering is a result of freedom. God has given man a certain amount of freedom. If man were merely a robot, an automaton, then God could always force him to do what is right. But God gives man the freedom either to love and obey Him or to rebel against Him. When man rebels against God, he hurts not only himself but also his fellow man.
This is so beautifully said. God created us and the world to live in joy, in peace, in abundance of all things. Scripture says it is a narrow road we walk to all of that, and when the world follows those guideposts, that is just what happens.

Just think of the joy and pleasure if we followed only the one guidepost of a man and woman living together with love and respect for each other and for each child! Then each doing their best to care for themselves and each other for six days, and taking a day to rest and give their trust in the Lord's care for them. When we live in a world where this is not done, we all must suffer for it.
 
"God is not in control" is a flavour of open theism which depreciates His sovereignty.

Proverbs 19:21 says,
"There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand".

God is in control, nothing happens without His knowledge and permission.

 
I wanted to talk about how I hear so many people say God is in control. I never liked the word control to start with but what gets me is if God is a loving, awesome, amazing God and he is in control why are there starving kids in Africa? Why are there kids being abused nearly everyday? Why are there people killing themselves? If god was in control I don't think he would let these things happen.

This brings me to the conclusion God is not in control of everything. If God was in control of everything don't you think the world would be a peaceful, loving wonderful place. That certainly will be in heaven with no pain tears etc. But Jesus prayed thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

I don't think God is in control, I think God works through us but he has certainly given us free will. We can choose to follow him or go our own way and we will reap the consequences. God is certainly there reaching out to us hoping we will always turn to him but I have seen so many people turn their own way and go the way they want when God has been reaching out to them. They have had to learn for themselves.

I think when people say God is in control it is an excuse to be complacent and passive, it is an excuse to do nothing about the things you see going on around you or in this world. It is an excuse to say it will be right God will fix it but doesn't God work through us? It will be right God will forgive me? I think we have choices and we have a choice to follow God's ways or go our own way but I don't think that gives us an excuse to say oh well God is in control? I think it also stops us from standing up for justice and praying for God's will because we just go oh God is in control he knows what he is doing. But doesn't he want to partner with us to do his work here on the earth?
You are starting and ending with your own philosophical understanding. You are not taking any cues from the word of God in developing this logical system. I could quote from the bible where it clearly states that God is in control of everything, but why bother? You have on your philosophical lenses. So let me continue philosophically as well!

In the molecular design of hydrogen and helium atoms, for some unknown reason, the weight of each proton in helium is slightly less than a proton in a hydrogen molecule. Therefore, when hydrogen molecules are forced together to form helium, there is a slight loss of weight in each proton. This weight loss is converted to released energy - the energy of nuclear fusion. Stars that are many, many times as big as the earth do what they do because of the mysterious engineering that went into each molecule. God does not simply take care of the big things and leave the details. When He makes stars, he specifically designs the molecules.

Nothing is fair from our human standpoint! People are born with evil character traits that they themselves did not choose! The baby, born yesterday, lives in a world he himself did not choose, under rules of which he had no choice. All of this happens. Is God unfair when he tells us, "you must be born again?" Why didn't he get it right the FIRST time we were born? He did! But right from God's perspective and right from a human-centered perspective are two different things.

God will be glorified - that is the center. Our joy flows from there. It is backwards to think that we must be made joyful so that God can be glorified.

At the end of time, all creatures who have lived on planet earth (under the great tribulations that we experience) will have one thing in common - we will ALL be very grateful for having had the chance to have lived on earth. Those below will LONG for a place like earth again, where God's grace flows, and will not find it. Those above will remember having seen the glory of God here. And every tear will be wiped front their eyes.

You will NEVER see God's justice in time……until you can see time in its entirety. As it is, we are trapped in a small portion of time, moving forward at 60 seconds per minute. We have the wrong point of view. God is just. God's glory is our great reward. Happiness and comfort don't mean much.

That's just my philosophy.
 
Jesus said in John 16:33, These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. in the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have over come the world.
 
[h=3]Acts 1
[/h]King James Version (KJV)

1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
 
Job 37

[SUP]0 [/SUP]By the breath of God frost is given: and the breadth of the waters is straitened.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Also by watering he wearieth the thick cloud: he scattereth his bright cloud:
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And it is turned round about by his counsels: that they may do whatsoever he commandeth them upon the face of the world in the earth.

[SUP]13 [/SUP]He causeth it to come, whether for correction, or for his land, or for mercy.


 
  • Like
Reactions: konroh
God is not pushy. God's children know that. God chooses us, we don't choose god. The problem with the world is that most don't understand and try to save themselves. These are the pushy ones.
God created satan to test us and many fail the test, they misunderstand scripture thinking to act good is the answer before overcoming sin.
That is why you see all the hell you in the world.

"Control" implies "pushy". You can't have it both ways -- either God calls the shots or not. If people who "try to save themselves" are pushy, then we see that God doesn't control them (unless He wants them to be pushy, which I doubt you agree with as you seem to be insulting them with that word).

It's a clear contradiction to say that God's in control while acknowledging that there are things beyond His control (such as actions of a being with free will).
 
You are starting and ending with your own philosophical understanding. You are not taking any cues from the word of God in developing this logical system. I could quote from the bible where it clearly states that God is in control of everything, but why bother? You have on your philosophical lenses. So let me continue philosophically as well!
...

That's just my philosophy.

Yes, why bother? Because if the bible doesn't reflect reality, then why bother quoting from it to explain reality? The OP did not start with "her own philosophical understanding" but rather with observations. You ought to have done the same.

Speaking of what you "ought to do", it is hypocritical to insult someone for spouting philosophy and then answer it with philosophy. What could possibly change your mind about this idea that God is in control if examples of God not having control are ignored?
 
I noted that we were working from our own observations, from our own philosophy, not from scripture. It was important to establish that. The reason that I had the right to share my observations, my philosophies on this thread (without reference to scripture) is because the OP DID INDEED share observations - philosophy. It would have been hypocritical if I had said, "thus saith the Lord" anywhere in there, which I studiously did not. Had the discussion been on a scriptural level, I would have proceeded differently - but it was not (at least not in the OP, which was what I was responding to). She had on her philosophical glasses, I put mine on instead of switching to scripture (which most of the other respondents did).

Where was I two-faced?

Thus said tdrew777


Yes, why bother? Because if the bible doesn't reflect reality, then why bother quoting from it to explain reality? The OP did not start with "her own philosophical understanding" but rather with observations. You ought to have done the same.

Speaking of what you "ought to do", it is hypocritical to insult someone for spouting philosophy and then answer it with philosophy. What could possibly change your mind about this idea that God is in control if examples of God not having control are ignored?
 
You don't have to be so angry settle down it's just a forum, I am allowed to state what I think.

You got kind of feisty.

Interestingly though, as I recall Angela would probably use your arguments against God's sovereignty over salvation.

"I mean, if I didn't choose God, then I can just sit back and do nothing, right?"
 
You are starting and ending with your own philosophical understanding. You are not taking any cues from the word of God in developing this logical system. I could quote from the bible where it clearly states that God is in control of everything, but why bother? You have on your philosophical lenses. So let me continue philosophically as well!

In the molecular design of hydrogen and helium atoms, for some unknown reason, the weight of each proton in helium is slightly less than a proton in a hydrogen molecule. Therefore, when hydrogen molecules are forced together to form helium, there is a slight loss of weight in each proton. This weight loss is converted to released energy - the energy of nuclear fusion. Stars that are many, many times as big as the earth do what they do because of the mysterious engineering that went into each molecule. God does not simply take care of the big things and leave the details. When He makes stars, he specifically designs the molecules.

Nothing is fair from our human standpoint! People are born with evil character traits that they themselves did not choose! The baby, born yesterday, lives in a world he himself did not choose, under rules of which he had no choice. All of this happens. Is God unfair when he tells us, "you must be born again?" Why didn't he get it right the FIRST time we were born? He did! But right from God's perspective and right from a human-centered perspective are two different things.

God will be glorified - that is the center. Our joy flows from there. It is backwards to think that we must be made joyful so that God can be glorified.

At the end of time, all creatures who have lived on planet earth (under the great tribulations that we experience) will have one thing in common - we will ALL be very grateful for having had the chance to have lived on earth. Those below will LONG for a place like earth again, where God's grace flows, and will not find it. Those above will remember having seen the glory of God here. And every tear will be wiped front their eyes.

You will NEVER see God's justice in time……until you can see time in its entirety. As it is, we are trapped in a small portion of time, moving forward at 60 seconds per minute. We have the wrong point of view. God is just. God's glory is our great reward. Happiness and comfort don't mean much.

That's just my philosophy.

God gives us a choice, he is not in control, It are the false Christians that control their lives, that is why God said to them "there are many sick among you".
 
Phil 2:12So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;

So we are to do everything we can, we have a choice, we obey, we respond to personal teaching, we give every effort in reverence and thoroughness. Why?

13for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Because God is in control, He controls the ends and the means, it's all for good in the end.

I do everything I can because God is in control, working in me, not because He's not.
 
Just one tiny thing: "Are you in control? In control of what?"

When you wrote this post, your ideas were running faster than your fingers and SEE! You made a mistake: "...If god was in control I don't think he would let these things happen..." (YOU mistyped god, instead of "God") (which is not a name, but an appeling to a "title").

If you were in control: Will you correct that grammatical mistake? Is it important for you? (or for me?).

God, YWHW or whatever HIS name will correct EVERYTHING. When you have a REMOTE CONTROL, you are free to change your TV Channel, but you aren't free to change your TV set, the place where IT IS, is you don do it with YOUR OWN HANDS. Will you change it? You are in control! You can change both, the channels and the place where you have left your TV set. Why don't you CHANGE IT?

Because YOU ARE IN CONTROL...

There are hungry people in Africa, in Venezuela, in U.S.A. and EVERYWHERE. Why don't you change these? YOU ARE IN CONTROL... (as many people is in control to DO THINGS or to leave them as they are). Same way like you or me!

Jesus said poor people will be here always... Did He make them to be rich? (or poorer?)

Deep on these things, GOD IS IN CONTROL, knowing who is who, and I cannot say -later on- "Oh, God! I didn't know what to do..." Because He asked US to do the right thing, the best and, otherwise, HE IS IN CONTROL TO CHANGE THE CHANNEL AND THE WHOLE TV SET.

Why does He have to wait for me? He can change EVERYTHING, if He wants.
 
God gives us a choice, he is not in control, It are the false Christians that control their lives, that is why God said to them "there are many sick among you".
What kind of God is one who has no control?

I just don't understand how far we've become disillusioned in confusion. God's house is far from divided, and until WE learn that, OUR house will NEVER stand.

God is in complete control. Have faith in whom we say is the ALMIGHTY! He did not make us in vain, and we WILL be one.
 
I think when we talk about control we have to understand it in the proper context. There’s control in the sense of “government” vs. control in the sense of “marionettes”.

God doesn't control in the sense of pulling the strings of we puppets. People are free to choose to be for or against God. No, God controls in the sense of governing in accordance with his will (i.e. his policy)...and because he’s sovereign, his will/policy is absolute and will be enacted regardless of one’s personal choices.


Let’s look at the story of Jonah for a moment.

God said, “Jonah, I want you to go to Nineveh and tell the people I’m going to destroy their city because their sin has risen in my face.”

God’s policy was to cleaned up Nineveh because their sin had risen to the level of extreme offence that it must be eradicated one way or another. God’s will was to destroy Nineveh’s iniquity...and his will is absolute. It will happen. Nineveh’s iniquity will be destroyed one way or another either by purifying the people or toasting the city itself.

God in his authority charges Jonah with the responsibility of effecting the clean up.

Jonah says, “Nope.”, and then flees in the opposite direction. This was completely Jonah’s choice. Jonah was in full control of his actions.

Now imagine what’s going on in Nineveh during Jonah’s rebellion...Things must be either as bad or likely getting worse because Jonah’s not there. But this doesn’t mean God isn’t governing the situation. He’s not slow (as some people would count slowness). God’s remedying the situation but God’s not going to send another agent because he – in his complete authority – charged Jonah with the task. And if he were to pick someone else that would suggest Jonah is outside God’s governing authority.

So who’s in control of what? Well Jonah’s in control of his decisions, but God’s in control of his government policy involving both Nineveh and Jonah. So Jonah has the choice to yield to policy or face the consequences.

Jonah freely refuses his commission and God sends a terrible storm to destroy the ship he was a passenger on. It’s God’s government so he can do whatever he wants in full sovereignty. Jonah relents and chooses to be cast overboard and is swallowed by a large fish (sent by God) for 3 days & nights. This whole ordeal was misery for Jonah. Finally, Jonah is spit out on the shore and once again God commands Jonah to go to Nineveh.

Jonah chooses to go to Nineveh and Nineveh repents of their sins. God’s policy was still enacted through Jonah, even though Jonah freely chose to rebel against God. Now if Jonah had gone to Nineveh and they still refused to repent, God would've destroyed the city completely and it still would've been God's will/policy: Nineveh's iniquity must be cleansed one way or another.

---

Hopefully this shows the dynamic between man’s free choice and God’s sovereignty when talking about control. There are people suffering in the world, as well as evil conspiracies hatched by evil people that harms others, and God is quite aware of it and is governing the situation. He is not slow to act as some people would count slowness, but rather patient. And there are agents he’s commissioned to fix the situation who are currently being prepared, or they’re prepared and freely choosing to be stubborn for the moment like Jonah. But guaranteed; God’s making it “rough as the seas” for these stubborn folks until they realize they can’t hide from their duty. God’s policy will be enacted through them. Meanwhile the record of the selfishness and evil of others is being recorded in heaven counting as a time of God's mercy before judgment on them.

Hebrews 12:6
For the LORD disciplines those he loves, and he punishes each one he accepts as his child."

And he knows his agents will come around because he knows them; he knows the character that’s within them. It’s his character. They’re his children after all. And as sure as he knows himself he knows those with his Spirit will enact his will/policy.

Zechariah 4:6
"This is the word of Yah to Zerubbabel: 'Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,' says Yah of hosts.

So truly, God's governing the situation, but what we're experiencing in the interim (which can be frustrating) is God's great patience. But persistently cry out and pray for justice as Christ says to do, and that justice will come more swiftly (Luke 18:1-8).
 
Last edited:
Isayah 46:9-10, "Remember the former things of old, for I am Yahweh, and there is none else; I am Yahweh, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times those things which are not yet done, saying; My counsel will stand, and I will fulfill all My plan."
 
God gives us a choice, he is not in control,
The bible is clear that men have a choice - they are not forced nor coerced. The rain falls on the evil and the good, the sun rises on the righteous and the unrighteous.
The bible is clear that God has control, both of the big and little. He controls the stars, because he controls each molecule that makes up the star.
Behold how great our God is! He gives men a free, unforced choice with all options on the table and STILL maintains control! If only Arminius knew the greatness of our God!

It are the false Christians that control their lives,
What are you trying to say? Is there a third class of men (apart from the born-again and the unregenerate) called the "false christians"? Or do you mean that the unregenerate control their lives in a way that those who are born again do not?


that is why God said to them "there are many sick among you".
This was because they partook of the Lord's supper without considering the body of Christ.
 
You still don't have me convinced, Jesus had to be obedient and do what God wanted him to do for God's plan to come to pass. He did what the Father showed him to do. Jesus had to act, teach, preach not just sit back and go oh God is in control he'll preach the gospel.

be grateful and acknowledge God the Creator who sustains all life and all good things.
be grateful and thankful He has not destroyed us all already.
be grateful and thankful there will be Justice, if it seems delayed it is because he is patient.

love Him. give Him the glory He deserves BECAUSE He is God.

and love and serve you neighbor
through your vocation (mother; nurse; accountant; dentist; preacher).

be kind to strangers and live peaceably (if at all possible) among men.
 
God gives us a choice, he is not in control, It are the false Christians that control their lives, that is why God said to them "there are many sick among you".

1) God is not in control
2) Christians controlling their lives (self-control?) is why PAUL said there are many sick among you.

WRONG


and


WRONG


a quieter mind might pick up a better signal.