Is infant baptism biblical?
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Christian Convert Imprisoned for Holding Baptism in Turkey
Christian Convert Imprisoned for Holding Baptism in Turkey : International Campaign for Human Rights in Iran < click
TORTURED TO DEATH
A few years ago, after an evangelistic meeting in Africa, I baptized 11 people in a creek. Between third and fourth baptism, I felt something sting my leg. I found out that they were leeches. Truly it was bloody baptism.
I baptized a few North Koreans in China near the North Korean border.
We baptized in a hotel bath tub hiding from the watchful eyes of the Chinese police and North Korean agents. The tub was not wide enough to immerse, but somehow we were able to crumple the bodies to baptize. No one was hurt at that time, but after they returned to North Korea, we heard that they were captured by the police and tortured to death.
http://www.kcgm.org/pdf_news/KCGMJune09.pdf < click
if baptism should have ceased, or is merely a tradition, we should be telling these people not to do it.
it hardly seems like something to be killed over, if it's not necessary, it seems to me.
Christian Convert Imprisoned for Holding Baptism in Turkey : International Campaign for Human Rights in Iran < click
TORTURED TO DEATH
A few years ago, after an evangelistic meeting in Africa, I baptized 11 people in a creek. Between third and fourth baptism, I felt something sting my leg. I found out that they were leeches. Truly it was bloody baptism.
I baptized a few North Koreans in China near the North Korean border.
We baptized in a hotel bath tub hiding from the watchful eyes of the Chinese police and North Korean agents. The tub was not wide enough to immerse, but somehow we were able to crumple the bodies to baptize. No one was hurt at that time, but after they returned to North Korea, we heard that they were captured by the police and tortured to death.
http://www.kcgm.org/pdf_news/KCGMJune09.pdf < click
if baptism should have ceased, or is merely a tradition, we should be telling these people not to do it.
it hardly seems like something to be killed over, if it's not necessary, it seems to me.
Acts 2
36Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
37Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
36Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
37Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” 41So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
see, this is where i'm baffled.
i'm not seeing it just yet i know.
but if baptism is not important, and has no real significance, why would we be more concerned about "one who was baptized upon or soon after conversion, or a supposed conversion, who lead a continuous life of carnality"
what would the baptism have to do with it if they had had a conversion (if baptism means nothing)?
it sounds like baptism could become their license to sin?
no....i know that's not what we're saying....but i kinda goes there, in a way it looks like, maybe
hmmm.....
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
why bother have life on earth at all. where even his loved ones suffer beyond belief, Is God that hateful that he wills those he loves to suffer so great a suffering?
Why not just not have anyone born, and take us striaght to eternity,, The ones he chose to heaven, the ones he did not to hell.. No one has any hope anyway. ifr you have not been chosen.
if it has no meaning, why on earth would they (who's they?) go out in public to be baptized and killed for it? If Christian goes out in public and get baptized in a country with heavy persecution, the more meaning it has for me. The heavier the persecution, the more the meaning or effect water baptism has, IMO.
for just a footwashing? I don't understand your train of thought. Footwashing has nothing to do with, I was using it as an example on how people might must misunderstand the purpose of water baptism.
or are you saying those christians not being baptized? No, again who are those people you are talking about, in N.Korea? If they are being water baptized (believers baptism) I would hope its out in public...I don't believe in an underground church...
i guess i'll look into it.
thank you
I'm not saying it doesn't have meaning, I'm say the meaning we apply to it is false, IMO. What are you thanking me for?
but i didn't ask about that.
carnality.
there are people who don't believe in baptism in water, but a baptism by laying on of hands or that baptism ceased, or some variation who live carnally.
i wasn't addressing carnality exactly....we could, but it wasn't the point i was trying to get across...though i'm doing poorly at it.
i wondered about water baptism, primarily.
and specifically in regards the New Covenant church where families abide in the church and raise their families in it.
it seems logical to me, and i do witness myself what i see at my denom - that those who have been abiding for multi-generations are more set apart in their ways of life. they do not live as the world lives.
so it was actually in that context i was asking about infant baptism.
families and households who abide.
New Covenant abiding, as i witness it now in the church i attend.
but ty
zone
I never seen how those being baptized by water are more adept or more sanctified in their walk, then others who are not. I'm not even aware of any believers who haven't been baptized by water, so I have no basis for a comparison. All I have is my experience, and even sometime after my water baptism in 1996, when I had a spiritual renewal, I still fell into willful sin. So it didn't do much for me, except the fact my earth father did it.
I never said it should be ceased...even maybe some of us, including me, should be re-baptized in water (believers baptism) in a public setting, where all our Christian and non-Christian friends present, along with a strong testimony and gospel message. And if it's behind closed doors with just your church family that's fine, perhaps after doing the act you'll feel the need to hold yourself more accountable; maybe others in the church will hold you more accountable as well.
Is the scripture you quoted, that I high-lighted, water baptism? To be baptized in the Lord Jesus Christ is to be immersed in His grace for the work He has done on the cross, the one baptism of what I think is the of the Holy Spirit. If its a true conversion, it is for our kids and grandchildren, for now they a believer in their midst to teach them how to be saved and live their lives unto Christ.
I see no evidence that they all went to the river to be water baptized here. But this only my opinion Zone, I'm trying to debate you over this...Maybe in verse 41 they where baptized by water after they received the Holy Spirit, and added to the church, which I think is a biblical view to have.
Because this person may not be saved to begin with, or this person needs to be discipled with love. What good is it to be baptized in water and live an unchanged life? What a greater meaning baptism would have if a believer understood what the symbolic act represents? And to all those who witness it especially non-believers.
bummer...wish i read this earlier before responding to your inquiries. God bless you dear.
If you think your evangelizing and discipling of souls contributes to their salvation you have to rethink them too.
Care to explain what exacly do you mean by that?
Just that way said I would understand that, that salvation is totally between man and God and no outsider is required or asked to "mess" that, which in other words sets whole evangilising to non believers highly discouraged, and I don't think you really mean that.
7
7seven7
Guest
Hey Zone! The peace of our Lord be with you, sis!hi 7seven7
why is it necessary?
is necessary the right word?
(i agree the Bible does not teach baptism alone saves - and it doesn't teach water saves anyone)
Sorry, but i dont understand your question
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
LOL...is gainsaying your hobby? Did I say He can't use us? Of course God can use us and He does, even at our worst it seems.