Is it biblical that a person can lose the holy spirit or salvation
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You need to read more then just one verse. Hebrews 12:17 is referring to how esau was denied his birth rights from his dad because esau had given them to Jacob. He repented with tears but was denied because it was irreversible.
Rev. Is prophecy to start.... Means it hasn't happened yet. But let's look at it. It sounds like this world is going to become wicked and the lord is talking about the rapture. " I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick" candlestick is the church and coming quickly..... (Like a theft in the night) would be the rapture. But this won't happen if we all repent.
You should watch the video I have posted on my wall. The Rev is tricky but I think I'm at least close. I will ask my pastor. I pray I'm not miss lead or miss leading
Rev. Is prophecy to start.... Means it hasn't happened yet. But let's look at it. It sounds like this world is going to become wicked and the lord is talking about the rapture. " I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick" candlestick is the church and coming quickly..... (Like a theft in the night) would be the rapture. But this won't happen if we all repent.
You should watch the video I have posted on my wall. The Rev is tricky but I think I'm at least close. I will ask my pastor. I pray I'm not miss lead or miss leading
My personal opinion is that the rapture is coming soon. I'm not saying when for it is gods will.
This subject has been so discussed on this site there's literally hours, if not days, of reading on this topic, spread throughout the threads.
Ok I will watch but why was it irreversible for esau could this happen to individuals of today like with esau
It has nothing to do with the holy spirit. It's about his birth rights. He was the oldest son so he was entitled to his dads stuff but because he was fooled he ended up giving it to Jacob. He was crying and begging his dad for it but his dad denied him and the act was irreversible. It was to late
Hello Alisha, this topic is one of the most controversial within Christendom, especially out here in Christian Cyberspace it seems, where so many who hold various beliefs about it come together to discuss them. The reason that this topic has been/continues to be so controversial is due to the fact that a strong Biblical apologetic can be made for both points of view
The Catholic churches (RCC, EOC, OOC) teach that salvation is achieved in the waters of baptism, and then lost whenever a sin is committed (and then regained in confession before a priest), while Arminian/Free Will Protestants typically believe that our salvation can only be lost by intentionally turning away from the faith/by rejecting the Savior (and that it can never be regained). I do not believe that a strong, Biblical case can be made for the former (RCC/EOC/OOC) position, but you can make one for the latter (the Arminian/Free Will position, that is), though it should be noted that there are MANY (most?) in the Arminian/Free Will camp who hold to OSAS, nevertheless.
The other side is either the "Once Saved, Always Saved" or "Perseverance of the Saints" POV, and I believe that a strong, Biblical apologetic can be made here as well.
I do not believe that OSAS means that a true believer either will (or can) go back to leading the kind of sinful, impenitent 'lifestyle' that they used to live as unbelievers, because if someone who 'claims' to have become a believer does that (quickly returns to or never leaves their former lifestyle of debauchery and sin, such that no change in them is ever evident), then I believe that their "claim" of having become a believer probably amounts to nothing more than that!!
I (personally) believe that a TRUE believer can have assurance that his/her salvation is secure/will never be lost, because God is always at work in us to see us safely through this life so that we can be with Him in Glory (IOW, I believe that the Bible tells us that we "persevere" in the faith because God makes sure that we do, because He "preserves" us in the faith, albeit imperfectly (sadly, we still sin at times) .. e.g. Philippians 1:6; 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; Hebrews 7:25, Jude 24-25).
I also believe that God WANTS us to have such assurance as His adopted children, to ~KNOW~ that we are, in fact, secure in Him .. e.g. 1 John 5:13.
Here are some questions that I ask myself to help me have assurance (or not
), to help me properly assess my walk and answer the question of whether I am truly saved or not (a question that we are, in point of fact, admonished to ask ourselves regularly .. e.g. 2 Corinthians 13:5).1. Do I see a (growing) difference in the way that I choose to act/speak/think when I compare my new life "in Christ" to my old life "outside of Christ"?
2. Am I choosing to be obedient to God's will, to living a holy (rather than sinful) life, one that seeks to please, honor and glorify Him?
3. Am I both grieved and penitent, such that I seek to be forgiven and cleansed of my sins (as a believer) as soon as I realize that I've committed them .. 1 John 1:9?
4. Do I truly love and have an ever-growing affection for God, as well my brothers/sisters in the faith?
IOW, are the various things that always "accompany" true salvation becoming more and more evident in my life
If so, I believe that you can have GREAT assurance that you are truly saved, and that you always will be (even if you are struggling with sin in the moment).You may also want to compare Galatians 5:19-21 with Galatians 5:22-23 to rightly assess whether your life looks more like the former or the latter passage (more like a life without or with the indwelling Holy Spirit, who makes the fruits of v22-23 a regular and growing reality in the life of a true believer).
God bless you!!
~Deut
p.s. - I believe that the NT "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit is permanent (which is different from OT times). That said, it's clear that King David, who was immediately penitent (once Nathan pointed out his sins to him), never had the Holy Spirit taken from Him, even though he had intentionally committed two HORRIBLE sins (adultery and murder) .. read Psalm 51.
We can harden our hearts. We only need to be saved once because Christ died once. It sounds to me like you either need to make sure you have faith or humbly pray. Talk with the lord. We must also show the lord we mean our prayers. He is forgiving, stay focused on him and be humble in your prayers. He will see your heart, he knows all about us. People may fool each other but no one can fool the lord. If you really want the lord to be in your life and be forgiven go to him humbly. I have also already told you this but it's not about feelings it's about knowing. Romans 10:9 that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God had raised him from the dead thou shalt be saved.
The lord dose not bend nor break his word. It's about knowing and having faith. I pray this helps you
The lord dose not bend nor break his word. It's about knowing and having faith. I pray this helps you
Yes and it has. Esau while being a real historical person is also a sign of the sinful and lost condition of all man kind. Only Jesus can save us from our lost condition because He has the birthright and the blessing. We lost it in sin, but He restores us to himself by His grace and we become partakers through Him. See originally this blessing was our first hand but no longer.
As Esau can only be a partaker of the inheritance and blessing by reconciliation to Jacob; we may only be partakers of the inheritance and blessing of God by reconciliation to Christ Jesus our Lord and savior. Who does so by His great grace and mercy.
Folks can fall from grace and a great many have, they lose their first love, they do not hold fast their first confession, they backslide, they cease to follow the Lord [except from afar]
Their prayer life fizzles out, their appetite for the word of God wanes, they no longer praise the Lord .. they no longer attend the assembly ... they no longer witness for the Lord.
You say "you are talking about many, many people here bro" Yes I am.
Are they still saved then? of COURSE they are.
It's not sin that causes this by the way, it is unbelief, and this unbelief comes about by bad theology, bad teaching,
Sin happens because our faith is shaken.
There's GOOD NEWS on the way
God never ceases to call us back, to woo us, to put us in remembrance, our first love, our early espousals, when we first came to Him.
We had no money in our hand, no good works to boast of, no pledges to make, no promises. We were simply receivers of His mercy and grace like beggars brought into a banquet.
God's love freely given, poured into our hearts by the Holy Ghost is the only answer to our needs.
Esau was reconciled, he was reconciled when he received Jacob back.
The blessing is NOT salvation, when are folks gunna learn. The blessing was Jacob's by predetermination.
Although Esau never could have THE blessing he never the less was blest and prospered.
I dont find this to be a productive line of thinking. When someone is irreconcilable then they would have no desire toward God. They are conscienceless.
It is the Holy Spirit that works repentance (which is the Holy Spirit convicting someone of sin and then convincing them of their need for Christ).
I dont find concerning myself with mortal sin useful, because they arent going to be interested in the gospel at all. If one rejects the gospel I just move on. All belong to God and he deals with them.
The Lord will not force anyone to follow Him, but He will welcome those back who have wandered away. Are you familiar with the story of the Prodigal Son?
Luke 15
13And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living. 14And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want. 15And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine. 16And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him. 17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger! 18I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, 19And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants.20And he arose, and came to his father. But when he was yet a great way off, his father saw him, and had compassion, and ran, and fell on his neck, and kissed him. 21And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. 22But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: 23And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: 24For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
Jesus still loves you and wants you to come home.
Amen. This brings tears to my eyes. This is the prodigal son. This reminds me of me. I had to leave church as a child because my parents got divorced, I came back and gave my life to the lord as a man. This struck me when I read this about a few months ago. I had forgotten about this. The lord. Is forgiving and love us. Thank you lord
I don't see how a person could lose the free gift of the Holy Spirit if they Truly received Him. Anyone who has experienced a Powerful Indwelling of the Spirit is certain to change, for the Laws of the Spirit of Life are Effectual . . . those same Laws cause the Lord's Elect to become whatever He desires that we would become.
Romans 8:9 NLT - "But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them do not belong to him at all.)"
If the Holy Spirit controls the Elect, how can the Elect be in greater control? If the Elect is in control and can walk away, then the Holy is not and never was in control. And if that is the case, then the Scripture above tells us what the problem is, which is that such a person never belonged to Christ at all. They were not one of the Lord's Holy Elect (at least not yet selected to be set free).
The Lord will not force ....
Predetermination is built into humankind
... if we will not submit we will perish.
Submit to what? submit to the Father's overflowing grace and mercy [as shown in the creation story] man instinctively longs for Eden.