Is it by Grace or is it by Works?

[Musicmaster]

There are those who believe in our being saved by grace and that not of ourselves. Others believe in works-based salvation in various of ots manifestations, which points to, "Yeah, we saved by grace, but ya gotta live it."

So, what REALLY is the difference between grace and works?

I'll attempt a simple but clear explanation about the difference:

Grace is an unearned gift; salvation by grace means it is received, not achieved. Works are earning actions any time it is applied to the topic of salvation; they are how people try to merit what they don’t deserve. Mixing them collapses the distinction, which leads to a violation of the law of non-contradiction: if any part of salvation is earned by works, then it's no longer a pure gift.

Here's some logic in support of the above:

1. Definition: Grace = free, undeserved gift. Works = actions that earn reward or status.
2. Mutual exclusivity: A gift and a wage are opposite categories—either you are paid (earned) or you are given something freely.
3. If works contribute, then it’s not purely a gift: Allowing works to add toward salvation makes salvation partly a wage, not wholly a gift.
4. Spiritual consequence: When a gift requires earning, gratitude and reliance shift from the giver’s generosity to the recipient’s performance.
5. Practical test: If you must perform to secure salvation, then assurance depends on your performance, not on the giver’s promise—so it’s not grace alone.

Helpful analogy​

• Receiving an inheritance vs. earning a bonus: An inheritance is given regardless of what you do (grace). A bonus is awarded for meeting targets (works). If your inheritance required hitting targets, it would stop being an inheritance.

One-sentence summary​

Salvation by grace means you receive what you cannot earn; adding works converts that gift into something you must earn, thereby negating pure grace.

Thoughts?

MM

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

"Yeah, we saved by grace, but ya gotta live it."

Saying one has faith, but not living it is hypocrisy. Hypocrites destiny is the lake of fire.

Salvation by grace means you receive what you cannot earn; adding works converts that gift into something you must earn, thereby negating pure grace.

Christians are going to do either works of the flesh or works of the spirit. There's just no way around this truth. If a Christian doesn't make effort to put works of the flesh to death through the spirit, then he will do works of the flesh because that's our nature. Works of the flesh bring death; works of the spirit bring life. Choose this day who you will follow.

 

[tablet123]

It is by love for everything stems from love.

We are saved by love.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith.

And faith works by love.

And grace works by faith.

Without love there is nothing.

1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Love is only valid in works.

1Co 13:5 thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

Love does not sin by the Spirit and does not go by their wants for it neglects the poor and needy.

Millions of people violate love not coming to the truth.

God said to turn away from them.

Any person that says they cannot abstain from sin and teaching godliness is gain turn away from them.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Without charity a person is nothing, their faith is dead which means no grace, and the love of God does not dwell in them.

 

[BBerean]

Jesus is the Author and finisher of our faith . Salvation is not of ourselves not even our faith , that is given to us . It’s God that must work in us to repent and believe in Jesus . Also there are works of repentance. Works are the result of our changed heart and empowering by God through his Spirit. Our natural state can only fail to meet Gods standard. And continually break the law or be deceived by a false gospel . The Spirit led life is the victory. God must work in us to save us we simply can not do it with out Gods help , that’s the Grace of God . He must have mercy on us , he gives grace to the humble and resists the proud . So humbly seek Gods mercy is the right approach. He loves to have mercy so take heart ! King David said a broken and contrite heart He will not despise! Amen . Find God in the scriptures by listening to the word of God is a good place to start . The book of John is so good to hear Jesus teachings. I hope this helps someone. Psalms and proverbs are encouraging as well . God bless !

 

[DavidLamb]

Saying one has faith, but not living it is hypocrisy. Hypocrites destiny is the lake of fire.



Christians are going to do either works of the flesh or works of the spirit. There's just no way around this truth. If a Christian doesn't make effort to put works of the flesh to death through the spirit, then he will do works of the flesh because that's our nature. Works of the flesh bring death; works of the spirit bring life. Choose this day who you will follow.

Yes, once we are saved (by God's grace), we are indeed to do works, not in order to be saved, but as a result of having been saved. Paul makes this clear in Ephesians 2:

(Eph 2:8 NKJV) For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
(Eph 2:9) not of works, lest anyone should boast.
(Eph 2:10) For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

 

[passion84god]

So, what REALLY is the difference between grace and works?

I'll attempt a simple but clear explanation about the difference:

Grace is an unearned gift; salvation by grace means it is received, not achieved. Works are earning actions any time it is applied to the topic of salvation; they are how people try to merit what they don’t deserve. Mixing them collapses the distinction, which leads to a violation of the law of non-contradiction: if any part of salvation is earned by works, then it's no longer a pure gift.

What you said here basically mirrors the words of Paul in Romans 4:1-5. Grace is a gift that was made possible through Christ's death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and glorification, and our faith in Christ's completed work is the means by which we can all experience the new birth. Here is my question though. Having been born again, what does God expect of us if not good works? There are plenty of scriptures in the New Testament that tell us we ought to not only be doing good works, but that we should be zealous to maintain them. Do you have a problem with this reality? I am not accusing you. I am simply asking you because I know a lot of people who do have a problem with the reality that Christians have been called unto good works, and it does apparently matter to Christ whether or not we are doing them. Just look at the seven churches that Christ addressed in the opening chapters of the book of Revelation. The first thing that he addressed with all seven of them was their works, and grave warnings were given to those who were falling short in that area.​

 

[GWH]

There are those who believe in our being saved by grace and that not of ourselves. Others believe in works-based salvation in various of ots manifestations, which points to, "Yeah, we saved by grace, but ya gotta live it."

So, what REALLY is the difference between grace and works?

I'll attempt a simple but clear explanation about the difference:

Grace is an unearned gift; salvation by grace means it is received, not achieved. Works are earning actions any time it is applied to the topic of salvation; they are how people try to merit what they don’t deserve. Mixing them collapses the distinction, which leads to a violation of the law of non-contradiction: if any part of salvation is earned by works, then it's no longer a pure gift.

Here's some logic in support of the above:

1. Definition: Grace = free, undeserved gift. Works = actions that earn reward or status.
2. Mutual exclusivity: A gift and a wage are opposite categories—either you are paid (earned) or you are given something freely.
3. If works contribute, then it’s not purely a gift: Allowing works to add toward salvation makes salvation partly a wage, not wholly a gift.
4. Spiritual consequence: When a gift requires earning, gratitude and reliance shift from the giver’s generosity to the recipient’s performance.
5. Practical test: If you must perform to secure salvation, then assurance depends on your performance, not on the giver’s promise—so it’s not grace alone.

Helpful analogy​

• Receiving an inheritance vs. earning a bonus: An inheritance is given regardless of what you do (grace). A bonus is awarded for meeting targets (works). If your inheritance required hitting targets, it would stop being an inheritance.

One-sentence summary​

Salvation by grace means you receive what you cannot earn; adding works converts that gift into something you must earn, thereby negating pure grace.

Thoughts?

MM

Yes, the NT reveals that grace and works should not be divorced, because there is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 1Cor. 15:10, 2Cor. 5:7, Rom. 1:17), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.

 

[timothy85]

The former pastor at my church introduced me to a book by Dietrich Bonhoeffer titled "The Cost of Discipleship" that had a lasting impact on me. In one of the early chapters the author conveys the idea of cheap grace versus costly grace. This is from an internet search that summarized the concept:

"Cheap grace is defined as forgiveness without repentance, baptism without church discipline, and communion without confession. It is described as grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, and grace without Jesus Christ, effectively treating God’s sacrifice as a "bargain" that allows believers to remain unchanged in their sin.

Costly grace, in contrast, is the gospel that calls believers to follow Jesus Christ even at great personal sacrifice. It is considered costly because it demands obedience, discipleship, and the denial of self, yet it remains grace because it is the free gift of God’s love, secured by the life of His Son. Bonhoeffer argues that true grace is inseparable from the call to radical discipleship and a life that actively turns away from sin."

This is not to imply that those who lack perfect discipleship are not under grace, but that we should always keep in mind the truth of Christ and strive to appreciate and live in a way that honors the grace we have been granted.

 

[Mem]

There are those who believe in our being saved by grace and that not of ourselves. Others believe in works-based salvation in various of ots manifestations, which points to, "Yeah, we saved by grace, but ya gotta live it."

So, what REALLY is the difference between grace and works?

Faith in the work of God is justifiable. Faith in our own work is not.

 

[decipher]

There are those who believe in our being saved by grace and that not of ourselves. Others believe in works-based salvation in various of ots manifestations, which points to, "Yeah, we saved by grace, but ya gotta live it."

So, what REALLY is the difference between grace and works?

I'll attempt a simple but clear explanation about the difference:

Grace is an unearned gift; salvation by grace means it is received, not achieved. Works are earning actions any time it is applied to the topic of salvation; they are how people try to merit what they don’t deserve. Mixing them collapses the distinction, which leads to a violation of the law of non-contradiction: if any part of salvation is earned by works, then it's no longer a pure gift.

Here's some logic in support of the above:

1. Definition: Grace = free, undeserved gift. Works = actions that earn reward or status.
2. Mutual exclusivity: A gift and a wage are opposite categories—either you are paid (earned) or you are given something freely.
3. If works contribute, then it’s not purely a gift: Allowing works to add toward salvation makes salvation partly a wage, not wholly a gift.
4. Spiritual consequence: When a gift requires earning, gratitude and reliance shift from the giver’s generosity to the recipient’s performance.
5. Practical test: If you must perform to secure salvation, then assurance depends on your performance, not on the giver’s promise—so it’s not grace alone.

Helpful analogy​

• Receiving an inheritance vs. earning a bonus: An inheritance is given regardless of what you do (grace). A bonus is awarded for meeting targets (works). If your inheritance required hitting targets, it would stop being an inheritance.

One-sentence summary​

Salvation by grace means you receive what you cannot earn; adding works converts that gift into something you must earn, thereby negating pure grace.

Thoughts?

MM

Those that call themselves Christians are either monergists or synergists. Monergists are those that believe that salvation is initiated and entirely concluded by God. God the Father chooses who to save and men's will has nothing to do with being chosen. God changes the person chosen by indwelling him with the Holy Spirit which allows for both Father and Son to enter the person's being and fill that person with the same divine love that they share. It is this love for God first and all other's as the person loves himself that results in good works. Synergists are those that believe that salvation takes a combination of God's work and men's will to be saved. Christ died for everyone and the Father bestows His grace on everyone, but to be saved, you have to accept it.
I tend to believe the monergist because of the following scriptures:
Eph 2: 8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it (faith) is the gift of God : Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Titus 3: 5-7 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration (by trusting that Jesus's death washes away our sins), and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Romans 3: 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh by justified in His sight; for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3: 24, 27-28 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus... Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. By boasting is meant that no human can say in heaven: "I made it", "I made the right decision", " I did the right things", etc.
Even faith is a gift from God.
Sadly the road to damnation is wide and is paved with people who refuse to give all credit for their salvation to God. It was Jesus who, through the Holy Spirit, brought Lazarus back to life after being dead for 4 days. Lazarus had no part in being brought back to life because he was physically dead. We are spiritually dead, and can not bring ourselves to spiritual life without Jesus through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Blade]

Thank you but.. why ask something that God by His word make very clear Eph 2:8-9. I personally never seen grace as a gift.. just me. As for grace and works... pfff yeah you will hear all kinds of teachers/preachers telling you what grace and works "really are". Is God really going to hold me accountable to what "Joe and Sue smith" teacher/preacher" said? No ...they will answer to Him for misleading or deceiving believers for their own gain. So much of this salvation/works we don't give a thought to those reading it.. as if what we say.. God will not make sure we answer to Him for it.

We just put out what we say we believe and never look back .. never caring about the weak in the faith that reads it.. maybe we do? You know God saves His people.. they come out with so much riches.. and not one dies.. not one sick.. all healed.. He is the GOD that heal them over and over. Yeah God was there cloud by day.. it was very hot and got very cold at night .. He was that pillar of fire. That is what God always wanted.. Later may years "they didn't want me as their king" ouch.

But it was not until they told God at the MTN we can do anything you ask. It was their good works.. they dissevered it king of thinking. You know before that day.. when GOD took care of them.. they were all sinners no? Once they said that.. you come near this MTN you die. think about it.. up till that day.. no one wanted to build a god.. gold calf. So its not my works I can ever be saved.. or many of us could boast.

Just relax. Read believe John 3:16-17 Rom 10:9-10 and yes luke 11:13 and know He is real... He is in you.. He is real. What you use to do.. odd can happen right then right now or some time later.. but what you use to love doing.. odd.. you just don't want to any more. Then.. you just.. help others.. you find your self doing "good things" "works of righteousness" what ever you want to call it. its no longer you that live.. but Christ that lives in you. Your the new man.. new spirit.. so don't believe this.. really truly ruff badly written text as truth haha you seek you pray you find this for your self. What He started in you.. He said.. not man.... but God said.. He will finish.

 

[Soyeong]

There are those who believe in our being saved by grace and that not of ourselves. Others believe in works-based salvation in various of ots manifestations, which points to, "Yeah, we saved by grace, but ya gotta live it."

So, what REALLY is the difference between grace and works?

I'll attempt a simple but clear explanation about the difference:

Grace is an unearned gift; salvation by grace means it is received, not achieved. Works are earning actions any time it is applied to the topic of salvation; they are how people try to merit what they don’t deserve. Mixing them collapses the distinction, which leads to a violation of the law of non-contradiction: if any part of salvation is earned by works, then it's no longer a pure gift.

Here's some logic in support of the above:

1. Definition: Grace = free, undeserved gift. Works = actions that earn reward or status.
2. Mutual exclusivity: A gift and a wage are opposite categories—either you are paid (earned) or you are given something freely.
3. If works contribute, then it’s not purely a gift: Allowing works to add toward salvation makes salvation partly a wage, not wholly a gift.
4. Spiritual consequence: When a gift requires earning, gratitude and reliance shift from the giver’s generosity to the recipient’s performance.
5. Practical test: If you must perform to secure salvation, then assurance depends on your performance, not on the giver’s promise—so it’s not grace alone.

Helpful analogy​

• Receiving an inheritance vs. earning a bonus: An inheritance is given regardless of what you do (grace). A bonus is awarded for meeting targets (works). If your inheritance required hitting targets, it would stop being an inheritance.

One-sentence summary​

Salvation by grace means you receive what you cannot earn; adding works converts that gift into something you must earn, thereby negating pure grace.

Thoughts?

MM

Grace is a gift and gifts can't be earned, so grace is incompatible with works insofar as they are done in order to earn a wage, however, there can be many other reasons for doing works, such as in order to embody our love, in order to embody our faith, in order to look good in the eyes of others, in order to experience a gift, in order to build a relationship, in order to take revenge, in order to repair the world, and so forth. The content of a gift can be the experience of getting do something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferarri, where the gift in intrinsically required them to do the work of driving it in order to experience driving it, but where doing that work contributes nothing towards earning the opportunity to drive it as the result.

In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments and something that we inherit is gift, so he was speaking about what is intrinsically required in order to experience the gift of eternal life, not about the way to be good enough to earn it as the result. In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not extrinsically required to have first done those works in obedience to the Law of God in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not extrinsically required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather we are intrinsically required to be a doer of those works because God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of them is part of the content of His gift of salvation. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

 

[Soyeong]

Those that call themselves Christians are either monergists or synergists. Monergists are those that believe that salvation is initiated and entirely concluded by God. God the Father chooses who to save and men's will has nothing to do with being chosen. God changes the person chosen by indwelling him with the Holy Spirit which allows for both Father and Son to enter the person's being and fill that person with the same divine love that they share. It is this love for God first and all other's as the person loves himself that results in good works. Synergists are those that believe that salvation takes a combination of God's work and men's will to be saved. Christ died for everyone and the Father bestows His grace on everyone, but to be saved, you have to accept it.
I tend to believe the monergist because of the following scriptures:
Eph 2: 8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it (faith) is the gift of God : Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Titus 3: 5-7 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration (by trusting that Jesus's death washes away our sins), and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Romans 3: 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh by justified in His sight; for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3: 24, 27-28 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus... Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. By boasting is meant that no human can say in heaven: "I made it", "I made the right decision", " I did the right things", etc.
Even faith is a gift from God.
Sadly the road to damnation is wide and is paved with people who refuse to give all credit for their salvation to God. It was Jesus who, through the Holy Spirit, brought Lazarus back to life after being dead for 4 days. Lazarus had no part in being brought back to life because he was physically dead. We are spiritually dead, and can not bring ourselves to spiritual life without Jesus through the Holy Spirit.

The fact Law of God was never given as a way of earning our righteousness or our salvation even as the result of having perfect obedience to it does not mean that there is no connection between our gift of righteousness or our gift salvation and our gift of getting to experience being a doer of the Law of God. In Matthew 1:21, Jesus saves us from our sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Law of God, so Jesus graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of the Law of God is intrinsically the way that he is giving us His gift of salvation. The Law of God was was given to describe the behavior of someone who is righteous as it describes the behavior of Christ, so it is what we get to experience by being given the gift of righteousness through faith. This is why the faith by which was a declared righteous apart from works done in order to earn it as the result also upholds the Law of God (Romans 3:28-31). In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so God did not give His law as a way for us to take credit for any part of our salvation, but rather God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of it is the way that He is giving us His gift of righteousness salvation.

 

[Musicmaster]

It is by love for everything stems from love.

We are saved by love.

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.

Charity, love in action, is greater than faith.

And faith works by love.

And grace works by faith.

Without love there is nothing.

1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Love is only valid in works.

1Co 13:5 thinketh no evil;
1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

2Ti 3:4 lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

Love does not sin by the Spirit and does not go by their wants for it neglects the poor and needy.

Millions of people violate love not coming to the truth.

God said to turn away from them.

Any person that says they cannot abstain from sin and teaching godliness is gain turn away from them.

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

Without charity a person is nothing, their faith is dead which means no grace, and the love of God does not dwell in them.

Ephesians 2:5, 8
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved; ...
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of ourselves through water baptism or anything else we may do by way of effort on our part.

Grace cannot be intermixed with works FOR salvation. Good works are the OUTFLOW from true salvation, not the other way around as some out there believe.

This is a good topic.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Jesus is the Author and finisher of our faith . Salvation is not of ourselves not even our faith , that is given to us . It’s God that must work in us to repent and believe in Jesus . Also there are works of repentance. Works are the result of our changed heart and empowering by God through his Spirit. Our natural state can only fail to meet Gods standard. And continually break the law or be deceived by a false gospel . The Spirit led life is the victory. God must work in us to save us we simply can not do it with out Gods help , that’s the Grace of God . He must have mercy on us , he gives grace to the humble and resists the proud . So humbly seek Gods mercy is the right approach. He loves to have mercy so take heart ! King David said a broken and contrite heart He will not despise! Amen . Find God in the scriptures by listening to the word of God is a good place to start . The book of John is so good to hear Jesus teachings. I hope this helps someone. Psalms and proverbs are encouraging as well . God bless !

Maybe Calvin taught that but it's not biblical...if I'm understanding what you're saying.

Ephesians 2:5, 8
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved; ...
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Amen to what scripture says as opposed to bad teachers through the ages.

MM

 

[GWH]

Ephesians 2:5, 8
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved; ...
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of ourselves through water baptism or anything else we may do by way of effort on our part.

Grace cannot be intermixed with works FOR salvation. Good works are the OUTFLOW from true salvation, not the other way around as some out there believe.

This is a good topic.

MM

Yes, but let us not divorce Eph. 2:8-9 from Eph 2:10.
Saving faith first and flows as it perseveres.

 

[Musicmaster]

What you said here basically mirrors the words of Paul in Romans 4:1-5. Grace is a gift that was made possible through Christ's death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and glorification, and our faith in Christ's completed work is the means by which we can all experience the new birth. Here is my question though. Having been born again, what does God expect of us if not good works? There are plenty of scriptures in the New Testament that tell us we ought to not only be doing good works, but that we should be zealous to maintain them. Do you have a problem with this reality? I am not accusing you. I am simply asking you because I know a lot of people who do have a problem with the reality that Christians have been called unto good works, and it does apparently matter to Christ whether or not we are doing them. Just look at the seven churches that Christ addressed in the opening chapters of the book of Revelation. The first thing that he addressed with all seven of them was their works, and grave warnings were given to those who were falling short in that area.​

Yes, we have indeed been called to good works. The problem is in all the works-based salvation falsehoods being foisted upon unsuspecting masses of churchianity followers who don't read scripture for what it says. The best of all good works originate with and from the Lord through us because of the gift of salvation He has given to us through our faith in Him and His finished work of redemption for us.

Amen

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

The former pastor at my church introduced me to a book by Dietrich Bonhoeffer titled "The Cost of Discipleship" that had a lasting impact on me. In one of the early chapters the author conveys the idea of cheap grace versus costly grace. This is from an internet search that summarized the concept:

"Cheap grace is defined as forgiveness without repentance, baptism without church discipline, and communion without confession. It is described as grace without discipleship, grace without the cross, and grace without Jesus Christ, effectively treating God’s sacrifice as a "bargain" that allows believers to remain unchanged in their sin.

Costly grace, in contrast, is the gospel that calls believers to follow Jesus Christ even at great personal sacrifice. It is considered costly because it demands obedience, discipleship, and the denial of self, yet it remains grace because it is the free gift of God’s love, secured by the life of His Son. Bonhoeffer argues that true grace is inseparable from the call to radical discipleship and a life that actively turns away from sin."

This is not to imply that those who lack perfect discipleship are not under grace, but that we should always keep in mind the truth of Christ and strive to appreciate and live in a way that honors the grace we have been granted.

Um, what is your understanding of the definition of "repentance?

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Those that call themselves Christians are either monergists or synergists. Monergists are those that believe that salvation is initiated and entirely concluded by God. God the Father chooses who to save and men's will has nothing to do with being chosen. God changes the person chosen by indwelling him with the Holy Spirit which allows for both Father and Son to enter the person's being and fill that person with the same divine love that they share. It is this love for God first and all other's as the person loves himself that results in good works. Synergists are those that believe that salvation takes a combination of God's work and men's will to be saved. Christ died for everyone and the Father bestows His grace on everyone, but to be saved, you have to accept it.
I tend to believe the monergist because of the following scriptures:
Eph 2: 8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it (faith) is the gift of God : Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Titus 3: 5-7 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration (by trusting that Jesus's death washes away our sins), and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Romans 3: 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh by justified in His sight; for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3: 24, 27-28 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus... Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. By boasting is meant that no human can say in heaven: "I made it", "I made the right decision", " I did the right things", etc.
Even faith is a gift from God.
Sadly the road to damnation is wide and is paved with people who refuse to give all credit for their salvation to God. It was Jesus who, through the Holy Spirit, brought Lazarus back to life after being dead for 4 days. Lazarus had no part in being brought back to life because he was physically dead. We are spiritually dead, and can not bring ourselves to spiritual life without Jesus through the Holy Spirit.

Salvation is indeed entirely completed because of what Christ did on that cross, through our faith.

Ephesians 2:5, 8
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved; ...
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Those out there who believe that it's God who preordained who would go to Heaven and who to Hell irrespective of personal choice through faith placed upon the Lord, they are without excuse. Those who believe they are saved by and through their works, they too are without excuse.

Our salvation is based entirely in what Jesus did for us; the One who desires that ALL men be saved, never doing what is contrary to His word nor against His own nature. Those in the habit of trying to make God into a moral monster by claiming He preordained who would populate Hell, they are without excuse. They are subject to the god of their own making.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Thank you but.. why ask something that God by His word make very clear Eph 2:8-9.

That there is so much departure from what's actually written within scripture, with so many using the battering ram of "interpretation" as their go-to in defense of their departures from what's written, we do engage these types of threads to let those who have questions to ask.

I personally never seen grace as a gift.. just me. As for grace and works... pfff yeah you will hear all kinds of teachers/preachers telling you what grace and works "really are". Is God really going to hold me accountable to what "Joe and Sue smith" teacher/preacher" said? No ...they will answer to Him for misleading or deceiving believers for their own gain. So much of this salvation/works we don't give a thought to those reading it.. as if what we say.. God will not make sure we answer to Him for it.

Yes.

We just put out what we say we believe and never look back .. never caring about the weak in the faith that reads it.. maybe we do? You know God saves His people.. they come out with so much riches.. and not one dies.. not one sick.. all healed.. He is the GOD that heal them over and over. Yeah God was there cloud by day.. it was very hot and got very cold at night .. He was that pillar of fire. That is what God always wanted.. Later may years "they didn't want me as their king" ouch.

But it was not until they told God at the MTN we can do anything you ask. It was their good works.. they dissevered it king of thinking. You know before that day.. when GOD took care of them.. they were all sinners no? Once they said that.. you come near this MTN you die. think about it.. up till that day.. no one wanted to build a god.. gold calf. So its not my works I can ever be saved.. or many of us could boast.

Yes indeed.

Just relax. Read believe John 3:16-17 Rom 10:9-10 and yes luke 11:13 and know He is real... He is in you.. He is real. What you use to do.. odd can happen right then right now or some time later.. but what you use to love doing.. odd.. you just don't want to any more. Then.. you just.. help others.. you find your self doing "good things" "works of righteousness" what ever you want to call it. its no longer you that live.. but Christ that lives in you. Your the new man.. new spirit.. so don't believe this.. really truly ruff badly written text as truth haha you seek you pray you find this for your self. What He started in you.. He said.. not man.... but God said.. He will finish.

Amen.

MM