Grace and faith are not of yourself, they are Gods gift . Otherwise faith would be of yourself self and it can not be . Our faith would never hold up , that is a delusion thinking it would . One of the marks of a false gospel. Believe and receive mentality. Faith is based in Gods love for us in saving us . I’m not a Calvinist , I tried the easy believism it does not work .
Is it by Grace or is it by Works?
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Philippians 2.12 work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, For it is God which worketh in you both to will and do of his good pleasure. ( it’s not of him that that willeth or him that runneth but of God that shows us mercy ) I remember old brethern saying if God does not work it into us we can’t work it out . End of discussion. God bless his work !
I go with the understanding of the word repentance from the original word in Greek, metanoia:
- a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done
Yes, the NT reveals that grace and works should not be divorced, because there is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 1Cor. 15:10, 2Cor. 5:7, Rom. 1:17), but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.
Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise, work is no longer work.
That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to place their faith in Jesus Christ ALONE for salvation. Their hands are full of their works, and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.
Yes, but let us not divorce Eph. 2:8-9 from Eph. 2:10.
Faith first, then works/fruit.
God initiates; saints cooperate.
On a different Christian forum, I was recently in a discussion with two different works-salvationists who were trying to turn "the obedience of faith" in Romans 1:5 (obedience that comes from faith) into the obedience IS faith and they argued that works of obedience (which follow salvation through faith in Christ) work together with faith and produce salvation. 
One of them even stated,
"When we obey by faith it means our obedience is our faith. It actually does mean obedience is the very essence of faith. The "obedience of faith" means faith and obedience are one and the same action. Obedience is part of the definition of faith."
Prior to my conversion while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I remember believing that error as well and back then I would simply say that faith IS obedience to Christ. I viewed any act of obedience accomplished AS faith. I would have said, faith IS water baptism, faith IS feeding and clothing the poor, faith IS multiple acts of obedience in general, faith IS works. I was totally confused!
I was previously in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who made this statement to me below:
We are saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is not simply "believing". Faith includes: Being water baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying the commandments etc..
As you can see, his argument about faith being defined as and includes these works above equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) AND works. After reading through the posts of those two works-salvationists, it's like Déjà vu all over again.
One of them even stated,"When we obey by faith it means our obedience is our faith. It actually does mean obedience is the very essence of faith. The "obedience of faith" means faith and obedience are one and the same action. Obedience is part of the definition of faith."
Prior to my conversion while still attending the Roman Catholic church, I remember believing that error as well and back then I would simply say that faith IS obedience to Christ. I viewed any act of obedience accomplished AS faith. I would have said, faith IS water baptism, faith IS feeding and clothing the poor, faith IS multiple acts of obedience in general, faith IS works. I was totally confused!
I was previously in a discussion with a Roman Catholic who made this statement to me below:
We are saved by faith - as long as you properly define "Faith". Faith is not simply "believing". Faith includes: Being water baptized, eating His body and drinking His blood/partaking the Lord's Supper during Mass, works of mercy and charity, obeying the commandments etc..
As you can see, his argument about faith being defined as and includes these works above equates to salvation through faith (his version of faith) AND works. After reading through the posts of those two works-salvationists, it's like Déjà vu all over again.
It's not about divorcing works/fruit from faith. It's about placing them in their proper place. Subsequent to regeneration and salvation. (Ephesians 2:5-10) Faith first, then works/fruit follow. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.
Correct, salvation is the gift, Not grace as many Calvinists insist because it fits their belief that their is no choice.
Then, after receiving the gift by God's grace through faith, there are yet many choices.
Unfortunately many of us former Catholics and protestants like to front load or back load works to the faith, which is not faith in Christ, but works. ...faith in self.
The many choices following true faith in Jesus Christ instead of self reformation/ repentance of sins which is obedience to the law......these should be separate.
Salvation distinguished from progressive sanctification. They are totally different. That sanctification comes through the consistent intake of the Word, feeding the spirit rather than the flesh and so forth. On any given day one crucifies the flesh and feeds the spirit, or not. Ephesians 2:10 is not an automatic thing that occurs at salvation all grown up and no longer practice son, again as too many of my former Calvinist friends taught from bad bibles.
(I don't lump all Calvinists here, but those who were in my life.) Apparently they were the only ones who thought they turned from all their sins, never to practice sins ever again at their so called conversion. Those preachers rivaled Roman Catholicism in some cases.
They are yet in their sins.
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
That walk should occur, but as we know, we don't always walk in the spirit, but fulfill the lust of the flesh . If that were not the case, then why all of the preaching against it in the Old Testament and New?
Amen!!
Exactly.... should
So awesome to read this, as we are so inundated with Calvinist teachings big and small.. each of these teachings harmful to spiritual growth in Christ.
When I was a young Christian, there was so much confusion in that circle of those acquaintances that I had to separate from that fellowship.
I was an independent Baptist. That's what they called themselves, but found out that there were many different beliefs that accompanied being independent. Some taught that salvation was a matter of willpower to give up sins.
That got me motivated to dig into the word more, considering that salvation is such a life or death issue.
I'm glad that we walk in faith as sister and brother.
Amen.
The entire will power message/fruit inspection (Calvinism)/Lordship salvation teachings are contrary to being under grace.
Sadly the teaching of discipleship/under grace is lacking.
That is so true.
On the brighter side, yesterday evening an old friend trusted Christ as his Savior!
There is power and truth in the Good News, it is REAL, and people can and do believe/accept the gift when presented correctly!!
Praise God!
Well, grace means gift, but yes, salvation must be received/opened through faith/choosing to repent (Matt. 4:17),
seek (Matt. 7:7) and love Jesus as Messiah & Lord (John 8:42-44).