is jesus god ?? or son of g0d ?

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Dutch41 said:
The answer you can find in Fil 2:5-11
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Who is Jesus? Well, He is was in the form of God, equal of God.. And He is the Word of God. And God is the Word.

So when we read that God became a human, we understand why He called His Father God.

When we we read Act 20:28 there is written some interesting:
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Here in this verse we can see the church of God, is purchased with His own blood. And the blood of God, is Jesus revealed in Human.

The Bible teach God became a human. And like I believe a tri-unity.



Do you know what Jesus said about this? I think it is good to ask questions.. but it is better to seek the answers by your self. Because the sollution is there.. written in the Bible. :)

Jesus said by His own words, written in John 2:19-22(confirming written in Mt and Mr)
18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.


When Jesus was human, He was complete human.. not for a part.. but like you and me.

And I think when you read the passage and study the Bible by your own.. I think you get your answers. :)
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the question is still un answered: when Jesus said destroy this temple-- .dont forget he is the word of God; God is speaking,always: when he said before abraham was i am.
God was speaking. what my father say, that i say.

''wakeup''.
 
Worship said:
God, the Creator of the heavens and the earth is the God of us and the God of Jesus himself, (( But said Christ: "O children of Israel! worship God, my Lord, and your Lord.")) Qur'an5:72, ((And when Isa (Jesus) came with Clear Signs, he said: "I have come to you with Wisdom, and to expound Unto you some of that wherein ye differ, So keep your duty to God and obey me,Verily, God! He is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him.This is the Straight Path.")) Qur'an 43:63,64

Jesus (peace be upon him) can not do anything whithout his lord, every miracles he did was by God's leave , not by his own ability, (( And will make him (Jesus) a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, a figure like that of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God's Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by God's Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe.)) Qur'an 3:49


We should worship the One true God, the lord who Created the heavens and the earth and us and created Jesus too, ((O mankind! worship your Lord, Who hath created you and those before you.)) Qur'an 2:21, we should worship the God who Jesus (peace be upon him) himself was worshiping him, ((He is God the One and Only; God, the Eternal, Absolute, He begetteth not, nor is He begotten, And there is none like unto Him.)) Qur'an, Chapter 112

((And when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! God hath chosen thee and made thee pure, and hath preferred thee above (all) the women of creation. O Mary! Be obedient to thy Lord, prostrate thyself and bow with those who bow (in worship)....(And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! God giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the Hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto God ). She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me? He said: So (it will be). God createth what He will. If He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.)) Qur'an 3:42,43,45,46,47

((Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how god doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!)) Qur'an 5:75,((And say, "Praise is for that God who has begotten no son nor has any partner in His Kingdom nor is helpless to need any supporter,"And glorify Him in the most glorious way.)) Qur'an 17:111
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I see in your profile (Quran mintion jesus more than 25 tims), i have searshed for the word (jesus) in it and i found thise verse '' The Messiah 'Īsā (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allah." 3:45
What does it mean.
Quran Recitation and Translation Online in Arabic, English, and Urdu

 
TO LBG

[B said:
livingbygrace[/b];387243]
dmdave17 said:
But, really, whether or not Jesus was the Son of God, or God Himself, does not change the message of the gospel. "You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. ... But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!" (Romans 5:6,8-9)

quote]

Some great posts being written tonight!
Though my personal opinion of who Jesus should be called maybe different to yours, I wholeheartedly agreee with you, it does not change the messaage of the Gospel
I wish more could see with the insight you obviously have

For you obviously know what REALLY matters. And it isn't to argue over theology, but know the heart of the message, not just the literal words of what is written

God Bless
Click to expand...

You were asked this question,
'So, I take it you question Jesus' divinity? There are many who do. I am not one of them'.

It matters very much whether Jesus Christ was God in the flesh because you have the divinity and diety of God within the person of Christ. If Jesus Christ was not fully God in the flesh then God (Emmanuel) never came nor was He manifest in the likeness of sinful flesh, and as God, He never paid for the sins of man with His own blood nor justified in the Spirit (1Tim 3:16). That would mean that we are still in our sins just like the Pharisees who did not believe that He came from the Father (Jn 8:24). This makes the Son that was sent not equal with God nor the expressed image of His person. This makes the Son separate from the Father and one could be led to believe in the Son without the Father or in the Father without the Son when making the Father greater than the Son (Jn 14:1).

Why accept the Son when the Father is greater? Wouldn't it be wiser to believe and accept the greater and in doing that you would have to reject the lesser as the inferior? This is what the Son was trying to prevent in the minds and hearts of those that would accept or reject Him in (John chapters 8,14-17). Not only was He sent as the Son of God but was God in the flesh and to reject Him was to reject the Father who sent Him. To reject His works was to reject the works of the Father that He did and this work included going to the cross as the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world. To separate the Father from the Son or make the Father greater and superior to the Son is to also separate and make the Spirit inferior to the Father and the Son, whom the Son sent to His disciples (Jn 15:16, 16:7).

Philip thought that the Father was greater than the Son and asked the Son to show him (them) the Father. Christ replied to Thomas and Philip and said this in (Jn 14:6-11) ...


6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

When one, who is a sinner, asks of you to show them God, who created all things, that they may be reconciled to Him, who are you going to show them? Can you show them the Father without the Son and can you show them the Son without showing them the Father? The Son was sent by the Father and the Father was glorified in the Son (Jn 14:13).

Here is Jesus response when asked by the Pharisees 'where is the Father' in verse 19 of (Jn 8:13-25)...

19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

'IF YOU HAVE SEEN ME YOU HAVE SEEN THE FATHER', 'I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE' (Jn 14;9, Jn 10:30, 17:11)
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Red33 said:
You were asked this question,
'So, I take it you question Jesus' divinity? There are many who do. I am not one of them'.

It matters very much whether Jesus Christ was God in the flesh because you have the divinity and diety of God within the person of Christ. If Jesus Christ was not fully God in the flesh then God (Emmanuel) never came nor was He manifest in the likeness of sinful flesh, and as God, He never paid for the sins of man with His own blood nor justified in the Spirit (1Tim 3:16). That would mean that we are still in our sins just like the Pharisees who did not believe that He came from the Father (Jn 8:24). This makes the Son that was sent not equal with God nor the expressed image of His person. This makes the Son separate from the Father and one could be led to believe in the Son without the Father or in the Father without the Son when making the Father greater than the Son (Jn 14:1).

Why accept the Son when the Father is greater? Wouldn't it be wiser to believe and accept the greater and in doing that you would have to reject the lesser as the inferior? This is what the Son was trying to prevent in the minds and hearts of those that would accept or reject Him in (John chapters 8,14-17). Not only was He sent as the Son of God but was God in the flesh and to reject Him was to reject the Father who sent Him. To reject His works was to reject the works of the Father that He did and this work included going to the cross as the Lamb of God to take away the sins of the world. To separate the Father from the Son or make the Father greater and superior to the Son is to also separate and make the Spirit inferior to the Father and the Son, whom the Son sent to His disciples (Jn 15:16, 16:7).

Philip thought that the Father was greater than the Son and asked the Son to show him (them) the Father. Christ replied to Thomas and Philip and said this in (Jn 14:6-11) ...


6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

When one, who is a sinner, asks of you to show them God, who created all things, that they may be reconciled to Him, who are you going to show them? Can you show them the Father without the Son and can you show them the Son without showing them the Father? The Son was sent by the Father and the Father was glorified in the Son (Jn 14:13).

Here is Jesus response when asked by the Pharisees 'where is the Father' in verse 19 of (Jn 8:13-25)...

19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

'IF YOU HAVE SEEN ME YOU HAVE SEEN THE FATHER', 'I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE' (Jn 14;9, Jn 10:30, 17:11)
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love you Redster.
 
God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and God the Holy Spirit.

The Godhead is made up of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
 
Mind said:
I see in your profile (Quran mintion jesus more than 25 tims), i have searshed for the word (jesus) in it and i found thise verse '' The Messiah 'Īsā (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allah." 3:45
What does it mean.
Quran Recitation and Translation Online in Arabic, English, and Urdu
Click to expand...

Jesus is not just one of those,he is the one and only, he is the door put there by God for us to come to him. We can not pick our own door.If we use an other door we will get somewhere else,not to the true God. We will get lost in the wilderness.
Only jesus died for our sins,there is no one else,and he only is resurected and sitting next to his father. We also will be resurected like him, but at his coming,and it is very soon. and we will be like him.
The WORD of God has always been with God from everlasting,no beginning.And this word was made flesh,so we can see Gods image, and hear his voice speaking through jesus. He is the one we must follow.
 
Oh the weighty question of the Trinity. I've always told my kids the trinity is like an egg. It has 3 distinct parts. The shell, the yolk, and the whites. Yet, together they are one egg. I think God is something like that. The Father, the Son, and the Spirit. 3 distinct part, one God. I also compare it to a family. I'm a mom with 4 kids. But we are one family.
 
Worship said:
humm, it is soo clear.
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If you say you love jesus and you realy believe that he is the only begotten son of God,then you must also follow his word You must put religion aside,God is not religion,religion is made by men and is causing a lot of trouble.
Religion can not give you life,But Jesus can.
 
Short answer:

Jesus is the Son of God. Therefore, He is deity. He is God.

If I'm born of a human, I have a human nature.

If I'm literally born of God (not "born-again" as a Christian), then I have a nature that is deity.

Jesus was born of both.
 
zone said:
hi wakeup.
could you expand on this please? just simply.
what is the gospel message? how does Jesus save?
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It is so simple, Just believe Jesus is the son of God,and believe in his words and follow his commandments, and to have Jesus(the word of God) you must feed yourself with the word so he comes inside you. He will be in you and God also in you,so you become one in spirit.He is the bread of life.If God dwelleth in you, what is there to fear in this life?He will come again to gather that is his.I hope you are serious with your question.
God bless.
 
zone said:
hi wakeup.
could you expand on this please? just simply.
what is the gospel message? how does Jesus save?
Click to expand...


wakeup said:
It is so simple, Just believe Jesus is the son of God,and believe in his words and follow his commandments, and to have Jesus(the word of God) you must feed yourself with the word so he comes inside you. He will be in you and God also in you,so you become one in spirit.He is the bread of life.If God dwelleth in you, what is there to fear in this life?He will come again to gather that is his.I hope you are serious with your question.
God bless.
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yes, i am serious.

is this the Gospel message? did you want to add to that at all?

how would you explain the gospel message to the bum on the corner who knows nothing? anything more than below?

believe Jesus is the son of God

believe in his words

follow his commandments

ok......so the next part of the question was how does Jesus save?

to have Jesus (the word of God) you must feed yourself with the word so he comes inside you. He will be in you and God also in you, so you become one in spirit.

is the above how He saves? is that what saves us?

could you expand on both the gospel message and how feeding on the word saves, please?

what part do we play in it?

when are we actually saved?

what do we become when we feed on the word and so he is inside of us?

did we pre-exist as conscious spirit entities before being born into these flesh bodies?

is Jesus a real entity at all? or a creative/generating life force (the word of God)?
 
wakeup said:
It is so simple, Just believe Jesus is the son of God,and believe in his words and follow his commandments, and to have Jesus(the word of God) you must feed yourself with the word so he comes inside you. He will be in you and God also in you,so you become one in spirit.He is the bread of life.If God dwelleth in you, what is there to fear in this life?He will come again to gather that is his.I hope you are serious with your question.
God bless.
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I am sure it was a serious question. Surely a Christian would not ask with impure motives.

ie

There objective was to try and find fault with the answer and insinuate the person did not understand the basic Gospel message
 
livingbygrace said:
I am sure it was a serious question. Surely a Christian would not ask with impure motives.

ie

There objective was to try and find fault with the answer and insinuate the person did not understand the basic Gospel message
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well, you're actually wrong LBG.

i want to hear the gospel message according to wakeup. i asked very clear questions with no motive other than seeing what the answers are.

is he not old enough to speak for himself?
 
Jesus is / was the Son of God inhabited by the Spirit of God. He was both man and God simultaneously. :)
 
zackabba said:
Short answer:

Jesus is the Son of God. Therefore, He is deity. He is God.

If I'm born of a human, I have a human nature.

If I'm literally born of God (not "born-again" as a Christian), then I have a nature that is deity.

Jesus was born of both.
Click to expand...

The son is given power by the father to be God,all authority is GIVEN TO HIM BY THE FATHER. God said to moses also,I made you a God. Jesus also said we are gods.john10:34.
 
wakeup said:
The son is given power by the father to be God,all authority is GIVEN TO HIM BY THE FATHER. God said to moses also,I made you a God. Jesus also said we are gods.john10:34.
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When Jesus claimed to be the 'son of God' How did the people see it.

What did sonship mean to them? Why did the religious leaders want to kill for saying that very same thing?

Like Father like son, is a saying I assume we have all heard? yet it takes on more significance in 1st century Palestine. If you were a carpenters son (first son) you would be just like your father, you would be a carpenter. It identified who you were, you were not your father but just like him.

So when Jesus says he is the son of God, then he is saying he is God. He also states, 'I and the Father are one', before Abraham was; I Am'; "My Father is working until now, and I am working." It was unmistakable to what Jesus was saying, He was saying he was God with the Father. That is why when he says he is the son of God they said he was a blasphemer, for only God could forgive sins.

John 5:18

This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

May we all love and serve Jesus who is God, Lord and Saviour the son of God.
 
zone said:
yes, i am serious.

is this the Gospel message? did you want to add to that at all?

how would you explain the gospel message to the bum on the corner who knows nothing? anything more than below?

believe Jesus is the son of God

believe in his words

follow his commandments

ok......so the next part of the question was how does Jesus save?

to have Jesus (the word of God) you must feed yourself with the word so he comes inside you. He will be in you and God also in you, so you become one in spirit.

is the above how He saves? is that what saves us? If God draws you then you are saved,He will lead us to the living waters,in this world or in the kingdom only then will things be perfect.


could you expand on both the gospel message and how feeding on the word saves, please? If you dont feed yourself with bread,you will starf. If you dont feed your spirit it also will starf,and become the living dead,spiritually dead.So we must feed our spirit also.With what? The words that i speak to you they are spirit,it is the spirit that quickeneth.

what part do we play in it? Follow his commandments and learn of him.
, him alone.

when are we actually saved?You can not say you are saved but still in the world,for you are in the world but you are not part of the world.You are saved when you have managed to come out of babylon,undo that spirit of babylon, and addopt the spirit of zion where there is peace.

what do we become when we feed on the word and so he is inside of us?
If the spirit of the father is in us we will be as the son,for God is holy and he expect us to be holy also(saints) He, Jesus is our patron

did we pre-exist as conscious spirit entities before being born into these flesh bodies?
?? N.A: All we know is that the breath of life comes from God,and he takes it back as he pleases. When Jesus gave his last breath, he says IN TO THY HAND I COMMEND MY SPIRIT. Breath of life back to the one who gave it.

is Jesus a real entity at all? or a creative/generating life force (the word of God)?
Click to expand...
God is a force; God is spirit and he who worship God must worship him in SPIRIT AND IN TRUTH.
The word of God always had glory with God,The word is the executer of Gods will.
What ever Gods will is, the word does the job.His word is a living word,he can appear as anything God wants. He appeared as melchizedeck,in the days of Abraham. He appeared as the tree of life in the garden. He appeared as the rock in moses days.He appeared as the man Jesus ,the son of david.And he will appear as the word of God with power and glory at his coming.rev19:13. God can make him appear as anything.God is in control of his word and everything.

Dont you know the scriptures,Jesus said no one can come to me unless the father draws him,yes even the bum on the corner. Dont limit the power of Gods pull,we dont choose God but God chooses us, you can be living alone under ground in a hole,if God wants you ,some how he makes you come.

''wakeup''.
 
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