Is modern praise and worship simply a form of conjuring?

[DavidTree]

there is a Hebrew WORD IN THE CONTEXT OF Praising God that means Dancing and making a joyful noise shout of praise, a singing choir, on playing instruments. it is also words for worship too.

Good Morning my Brother in Christ

 

[DavidTree]

You never did answer my question. In 2 Samuel there was also the ark. If you follow what you're saying to its logical conclusion we should also keep an ark in the church so we can wheel it in and celebrate. We should also all wear ephods in church services.

I'm also waiting for an answer to where it says anyone in the church was filled with the Holy Spirit and danced before the lord. You keep making what you think are witty comments but you don't seem to have any substance; I'll let that speak for itself.

You said: "In 2 Samuel there was also the ark. If you follow what you're saying to its logical conclusion we should also keep an ark in the church so we can wheel it in and celebrate. We should also all wear ephods in church services."

Just when i thought it could not get any better - again thank you for the lol x100

 

[DavidTree]

You never did answer my question. In 2 Samuel there was also the ark. If you follow what you're saying to its logical conclusion we should also keep an ark in the church so we can wheel it in and celebrate. We should also all wear ephods in church services.

I'm also waiting for an answer to where it says anyone in the church was filled with the Holy Spirit and danced before the lord. You keep making what you think are witty comments but you don't seem to have any substance; I'll let that speak for itself.

i see your ailment brother = "its logical conclusion'

 

[ResidentAlien]

You said: "In 2 Samuel there was also the ark. If you follow what you're saying to its logical conclusion we should also keep an ark in the church so we can wheel it in and celebrate. We should also all wear ephods in church services."

Just when i thought it could not get any better - again thank you for the lol x100

I guess Proverbs 29:9 is true after all: "If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet."

 

[CS1]

I had an idea that scripture was in there but not sure where . Am glad I didn't just imagine it!
thanks for sharing

do a word study on Praise & worship in the Hebrew text, and as it used in the word of God the expression are very much specific

 

[Katia]

At many charismatic churches, praise and worship can last from 30 to 45 minutes or even longer. The supposed purpose of this is to "call down" the Holy Spirit. But does the Holy Spirit really need to be called down, or is this just a way to get people into an emotional state of pleasure and receptivity? Does this sort of thing honor God or are we honoring the creature more than the Creator?

One song that comes to mind is Kari Jobe's "Holy Spirit." The reason I remember it is because the lyrics are clearly an invitation to the Spirit to fall, or come down. Here's the live video.

Virtually every charismatic church and especially megachurches use music to get the audience "in the mood." Maybe we should consider who or what is actually being conjured by this.

I have some hard personal limits on what happens on Sunday, but they are for me. Others may do as they wish. Loud Rock, heavy bass music is not acceptable. I go to Sunday worship for Communion and to worship God and Jesus.

 

[CS1]

Good Morning my Brother in Christ

Good morning to you

 

[EnglishChick]

I guess Proverbs 29:9 is true after all: "If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet."

Wasn't the Ark of the covenant a shadow of things to come? Like all the feast days and the tabernacle and shabbat?

They are foreshadows of God's covenant with Israel extending to all nations and the gospel of Christ ??

Jesus is inside of us. We are indwelled by the Holy ?spirit . A tabernacle is no longer needed

 

[ResidentAlien]

You never did answer my question. In 2 Samuel there was also the ark. If you follow what you're saying to its logical conclusion we should also keep an ark in the church so we can wheel it in and celebrate. We should also all wear ephods in church services.

I'm also waiting for an answer to where it says anyone in the church was filled with the Holy Spirit and danced before the lord. You keep making what you think are witty comments but you don't seem to have any substance; I'll let that speak for itself.

How do you get "logical conclusion" from this? I'm just asking a simple question. I'd like to hear your opinion. I'm not saying dancing in the Spirit is wrong necessarily. I'm just curious why the Old Testament is always invoked to justify it.

 

[EnglishChick]

I have some hard personal limits on what happens on Sunday, but they are for me. Others may do as they wish. Loud Rock, heavy bass music is not acceptable. I go to Sunday worship for Communion and to worship God and Jesus.

If the gospel is preached I don't care what style of music it is although I hate it loud. Musically i find most modern worship tunes uninspiring compared to previous generations of worship (Bach, Handel, Samuel Wesley etc) however some modern worship bands have very anointed lyrics


I used to not like bethel then I listened to Misty Edwards song "I knew what in was getting into". . Beautiful lyrics.

 

[DavidTree]

I guess Proverbs 29:9 is true after all: "If a wise man has an argument with a fool, the fool only rages and laughs, and there is no quiet."

No rage in me here brother - so Proverbs 29:9 cannot touch me.

Laughter is Good for the Good God created it.
Thing is i am laughing with God and with the Holy Spirit and with the Words of God as opposed to raging against them.

Then our mouth was filled with laughter, And our tongue with singing. Then they said among the nations, “The LORD has done great things for them.”
Psalm 126:2

 

[EnglishChick]

How do you get "logical conclusion" from this? I'm just asking a simple question. I'd like to hear your opinion. I'm not saying dancing in the Spirit is wrong necessarily. I'm just curious why the Old Testament is always invoked to justify it.

Ah, I see.. I dunno. Maybe the old testament is invoked because David knew the joy of the Lord, just like we do, and that not caused him to dance


And if it's good enough for David, or Larry Norman, then it's good enough for me

 

[ResidentAlien]

Here's a video of one of the shining examples of Christianity and a "move of the 'spirit'". Everyone in the audience finds it quite humorous. I wonder how God sees it?

 

[SaltwaterGirl]

Okay, so your argument is based on some extra-biblical assumptions about the trinity?

Aren't there differences between the roles of the Father, Son, and Spirit? Did the Spirit die on the cross and rise again? Did the Son declare the Father to be the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead? Did the Spirit send the Son to the saints as a Comforter after the ascension?

First of all, what do you imagine “extra-biblical assumptions about the trinity“ to be? To me, this makes no sense at all. Please explain.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Wasn't the Ark of the covenant a shadow of things to come? Like all the feast days and the tabernacle and shabbat?

They are foreshadows of God's covenant with Israel extending to all nations and the gospel of Christ ??

Jesus is inside of us. We are indwelled by the Holy ?spirit . A tabernacle is no longer needed

You know it sister!

The earthly Ark was a representation of what is in heaven.
The ephod was only worn by the High Priest anyway, not by everyone. Jesus is doing that job for us in heaven now.
The instructions for the earthly tabernacle were all given by the same Lord God who sent us Messiah Jesus.
Everything will be fulfilled. All scripture is still relevant.
We will enter in singing and dancing with the procession of The King of Zion when he returns.


Rev 11:19
Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant.
And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.

 

[Aaron56]

Here's a video of one of the shining examples of Christianity and a "move of the 'spirit'". Everyone in the audience finds it quite humorous. I wonder how God sees it?

What a grotesque show! I've never seen anything like that.

 

[1ofthem]

Would it bother you at all to know that Jobe's album, Majestic, which features the song "Holy Spirit," is on the Sparrow Records label? Let's break this down: Universal Music Group is the head>Universal owns Capitol Christian Music Group (CCMG)>Sparrow Records is part of Captial Christian Music Group. CCMG is the "Christian" arm of Captiol Records which has produced artists like Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Alice in Chains, Butthole Surfers, and the like.

My point is this, Capitol is in the business of making $$$, not promoting Jesus. One arm produces artists like those previously mentioned and the other produces Christian artists. They couldn't care less so long as the cash keeps rolling in. Kari Jobe, and many other contemporary worship music artists like her have sold out to Satan to have hit records and to make a name for themselves.

I'm sorry if this spoils the image you have of some of your favorite CWM artists, but as Christians, what are we in the business of: truth or idol worship?

I actually agree with you on this. I'm not trying to judge. Just speaking of my own feelings/opinions about this topic. I don't like the new age gospel music....Most of the singers seem to be singing it only for the cash...I myself don't feel the Spirit of God in any of it.

I would rather hear a simple unknown person singing from their heart instead of Kari Jobe or any of the famous Gospel singers.

I do believe most of it is a sham and if those gospel singers could get a mainstream label, with the secular industries of rock, country, rap, then they would drop singing gospel in a heartbeat.

 

[Aaron56]

Kari Jobe, and many other contemporary worship music artists like her have sold out to Satan to have hit records and to make a name for themselves.

I don't listen to "Christian contemporary music" and I have no idea who Kari Jobe is but your conclusion about "selling out to Satan" leaves me confused. Are you saying because she used Capital Records to distribute her music she is necessarily sold out to Satan?

 

[Runningman]

That is a great verse.

Do you know of any scripture that talks about praising or praying to the Holy Spirit?

In Acts 5:3-4, it says that Ananias lied to the Holy Spirit. So Ananias was communicating with the Holy Spirit. Talking with the Holy Spirit is what a prayer is. So Acts 5:3-4 is an example of praying to the Holy Spirit, who is God.

I don't know if there is a verse about singling out the Holy Spirit for worship, but since the Holy Spirit is God and we're worshipping God then yeah we're worshipping the Holy Spirit. That's just simple logic. I think to say otherwise is to deny the deity of the Holy Spirit and that's actually a big problem.