Is Sally Saved?
- Thread starter DiscipleDave
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J
joefizz
Guest
From the Elvis impersonator that Tommy insisted on having sing for the wedding. He's pretty sketchy, though, if you ask me.
Did she put her left foot in?
Did she take her left foot out?
Did she put her left foot back in and then shake it all about?
Did she do the hokey pokey and turn herself around?
Because, if she did these things, that's what its all about.
That, plus strict adherence to resting on saturdays and I think she's in there.
Did she take her left foot out?
Did she put her left foot back in and then shake it all about?
Did she do the hokey pokey and turn herself around?
Because, if she did these things, that's what its all about.
That, plus strict adherence to resting on saturdays and I think she's in there.
J
joefizz
Guest
J
joefizz
Guest
You use this phrase as if its scripture, the key word "trust" is not even in the verses you use as proof text. If trust alone is truly the only "means to our salvation" why is there not a verse that states such an important point?
I think this is a trick question.
Notice the fact that "Jesus died for her," the "Blood of Jesus" and the "Lamb's" Book of Life are not mentioned.
Hmmmmm...............
There are several verses that state such an important point. What do you think it means to believe in/place faith in Christ for salvation? It involves TRUST and not merely "mental assent" belief. This remains your stumbling block.
The word translated faith is found in the Greek lexicon of the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance and is defined as follows: #4102; pistis; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), *especially reliance upon Christ for salvation*; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.
The word translated believe is from the greek word pisteuō #4100 which means: to believe, entrust, "to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to *entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ).* Short Definition: I believe, have faith in, *trust in;* pass: I am entrusted with.
The word "believe" can describe mere mental assent belief, as in James 2:19, or also include "trust and reliance" in Christ for salvation, as in Acts 16:31. In James 2:19, nobody is questioning the fact that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe/trust in/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation.
Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. Saving belief/faith is more than just an "intellectual acknowledgment" to the existence and historical facts about Christ. Saving belief/faith trusts exclusively in Christ's finished work of redemption as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16; 3:24-26).
P
pottersclay
Guest
Regardless of how the word "believe" can be translated, the notion that the act of "trusting exclusively" is not being conveyed as the point of forgiveness of sins.
Sin is what separates us from God, unbelief is but a symptom of that separation. No amount of belief, trust, faith, assurance or conviction can replace obedience to the very act that is commanded for that forgiveness to take place. Your notion that the act of trusting that God will forgive sins is the point of forgiveness is a manmade idea. If we are forgiven of our sins before baptism verses such as Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, Mark 16:16, 1st Peter 3:21 serve no purpose other than to confuse.
The blind man at the Pool of Siloam received his promised sight not when he trusted but when he obeyed. The door does not open when we trust but when we knock. The walls do not fall when we trust but when we shout. Peter did not catch any fish by simply trusting Jesus but when he obeyed and dropped the net.
Claiming the forgiveness of sins by a self proclaimed statement of belief is a reliance in ourselves. No one knows their own heart.
Those who were truly "cut to the heart" in Acts 2:38 did not proclaim their new found forgiveness but asked Peter humbly "What must we do"? Peter simply replied "Be baptized so that your sins will be forgiven and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
No amount of spin will change this message.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Your right, Sin is what separates us from God.
The Adam and Eve were told. the penalty of sin is death
Israel was told. the penalty of sin is death
We are told. the penalty of sin is death
The penalty is of sin is not being baptized, It is not resting on the sabbath, it is not church membership. It is not being a good boy or girl IT IS DEATH!
Jesus came to die the death we owe (the cross) and that is the ONLY payment God will accept.
Either we trust God, and his sacrifice as a means to pay our debt, or we try to pay the debt our self (by works) thus rejecting the grace of God.
No amount of spin will change that message.
Did she speak in tongues? That's a sure fire clue.
If God has touched her conscience then God is working in dear Sally. Now is when a real pastor would take her aside and carefully explain the scriptures to Sally, pray with her and allow the Lord to lead in Sally's heart.
This could be an example of the seed that was carried away by the birds before it took root according to the parable.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If God has touched her conscience then God is working in dear Sally. Now is when a real pastor would take her aside and carefully explain the scriptures to Sally, pray with her and allow the Lord to lead in Sally's heart.
This could be an example of the seed that was carried away by the birds before it took root according to the parable.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Show me a scripture that backs up this statement. Show me a verse that states our sins are forgiven because we trust that our sins are forgiven. Explain the verbiage in such scriptures as Acts 2:38, Acts 22;16, Mark 16:16, 1st Peter 3:21 etc. Explain the lack of any verse that presents "trusting" as the only means to the forgiveness of sins.
Trust only regeneration theology is a manmade notion. One that calls for the belief in our own awareness of "trust" as opposed to obedience to the commands of God which is the undeniable flow and form of the scriptures. A theology that labels such clear commands as repentance, confession and baptism as a mere byproduct of the "trust" in our understanding of salvation. A theology this dares to call baptism a work and not the point of forgiveness of sins. A theology void of truth.
Trusting that you are saved is not the gospel.
S
Seedz
Guest
just out of curiosity regarding the scripture you have quoted. According to this, baptism is absolutely necessary aside from believing in Jesus (as in truly believing through faith that is not dead of course) to be saved?
Are you you referring to a physical water baptism? Or a spiritual baptism through the Holy Spirit?
My reference: Acts 5:5-8
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Your right, Trusting I am saved is not the gospel.
Trusting in JESUS is the gospel.
Been over those passages, You have the OT believers lost forever because they were never saved, Jesus is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. Water baptism has never saved one person. Anymore than physical circumcision ever saved anyone in the OT.
They REPRESENT the cleansing done not by the hands of men, but by the hands of God.
You trust in your work, i will trust in God. (not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy HE SAVED US, by the WASHING and renewal of the HS. (there is your baptism. Spirit baptism/washing, not water)
D
Depleted
Guest
D
Depleted
Guest
All kidding aside, and pretending Sally is a real person, this little case study still doesn't work.
Do you remember when you were first saved? Did you immediately want to be a Christian? Christian? As far as I knew, I already was a Christian. I was raised in "a good Christian family." (I was raised Catholic, so the assumption of Christian was already built in, as was the assumption of being good.) Wanting to be a Christian never entered my mind. Matter of fact, lo these many decades later, this is the first time I even thought about wanting to be a Christian. And now that I think of it, if there was a group I am, but didn't want to be connected to that group, that is about as far as my want is for being a Christian. Given a choice between being a Christian and going to a rap concert, (I cannot stand rap), I'd rather go to the rap concert. "Christian" still gives me about the same feeling it did before being saved. It's a kaleidoscope of negative adjectives I do not want to be included in, as well as a few things I do want to be in.
And the stuff she says to the preacher? Poppycock! That is the biggest pile of sentences any new believer is never going to say. You've bestowed her instantly with your pile of stuff you learned over the course of decades that you think has everything to do with being saved. It has as much to do with being saved as roaches playing football with a Studebaker on the South Pole!
Is Sally saved? Who knows? Because you made her say and do stuff that means absolutely nothing, and then did not show if she persevered.
I know you asked to prove something. I suspect we'll never know what you were planning on proving because this "poll" went south quickly. But, personally, I think that was a blessing because you only asked to prove something about yourself.
And the sad part is I know you're busy preparing to prove something else about something else right now, because you don't really talk to anyone here. You just prove you know stuff. And in doing so, you never prove anything and never teach anything. You don't communicate online.
S