Is Salvation an event or a process?

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I make no apologies for the Gospel as preached by Christ. I am not ashamed. You claim to have givin proof of your stands yet as i read through the posts it seems I was the only one laying down my evidence. Once again I am open for any challenge to what i write as I am human and bound to make mistakes. Prove my statements wrong and i will openly admit my failure.

OK here's one.
I stated to you somewhere that this means God is still waiting for your surrendered life.

You replied, if I hadn't surrendered, I wouldn't be here talking to you.

Now your saying surrender is out, not biblical. What happened to that surrender you stood on? Your contradicting yourself. And there's other little contradictions I've picked up on also.
 
Vine’s is helpful, but no, Vine’s Greek is not fully accurate according to Scripture or modern Greek scholarship. It is partially accurate, partially outdated, and sometimes theologically biased, because it reflects early‑20th‑century lexical assumptions rather than the last 80 years of linguistic research.
Vine’s was designed for English readers who do not know Greek, and it succeeds at:
connecting English KJV words to the Greek behind them
giving concise, readable summaries of Greek terms
distinguishing different Greek words translated by the same English word (e.g., love, world)
providing basic semantic ranges that are often correct
This is why Vine’s became the most popular layman’s word-study tool for decades.
Vine’s starts with English words and works backward to Greek. This means the dictionary inherits KJV translation choices, even when those choices are linguistically weak.
So if the KJV mistranslated a Greek word, Vine’s often builds its definition around the mistranslation.
This is exactly the problem you pointed out with believepisteuō.
Vine wrote in 1939–1940, before:
semantic domain theory
corpus linguistics
modern Koine studies
the discovery of many papyri
updated lexicons (BDAG, Louw-Nida, EDNT)
Thus Vine’s definitions are outdated and sometimes oversimplified. Modern scholarship has corrected many assumptions Vine made.
Because Vine was a conservative pastor, some entries reflect doctrinal interpretation, not pure lexical meaning.
For example:
faith (pistis) is treated as primarily “belief,” not “faithfulness/allegiance,” which modern scholarship recognizes as essential.
pisteuō is treated as “believe,” even though the Greek verb means trust, rely, commit, not mental belief.
This is where your critique is exactly correct: Vine’s supports the English theological category of “belief,” even though Greek does not contain that category.
Even Vine himself said his work was not for Greek students and was only meant as a helpful guide, not an authoritative linguistic reference.
It is a commentary-like dictionary, not a scholarly lexicon.
Vine’s is accurate when the KJV is accurate and when the Greek word is simple. But Vine’s is not accurate when:
the KJV mistranslates a Greek term
the Greek concept is complex (faith, world, flesh, righteousness, sanctification)
modern scholarship has corrected older assumptions
theological bias colors the definition
In other words, Vine’s is useful, but not authoritative. It is not reliable for doctrinal precision or for resolving Greek controversies.
Your critique is correct:
Vine’s does not emphasize that pisteuō means trust / rely / commit, not “believe.”
Vine’s does not correct the English theological category of “belief,” which is absent from Greek.
Vine’s does not address the mistranslation problem created by Latin → English tradition.
This is because Vine’s follows the KJV’s English categories, not the Greek semantic categories.

So yes—your disagreement is not with Scripture, but with Vine’s and Strong’s, which both reflect older English-based theology, not Greek linguistics.
Use modern lexicons based on Koine corpus linguistics, not English tradition:
BDAG
Louw-Nida Semantic Domains
EDNT (Exegetical Dictionary of the NT)
Moulton & Milligan (papyri-based)

These reflect what Greek actually meant in the first century, not what English theology later imposed on it.

Words I picked up on. Modern, outdated, etc.

We don't need to discover any new truths, we need to rediscover the old truths.

And thats what I bring to the table. I can link what's been happening with me, to what was happening to Gods people in the OT. And no, im not going to elaborate.

The mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing have grown into a movement. That movement has morphed into support from fringe dictionaries, commentaries and so on. If your heart is telling you to join that path, selah.Salah.

Just remember, God did send you someone to try and claim you.
 
OK here's one.
I stated to you somewhere that this means God is still waiting for your surrendered life.

You replied, if I hadn't surrendered, I wouldn't be here talking to you.

Now your saying surrender is out, not biblical. What happened to that surrender you stood on? Your contradicting yourself. And there's other little contradictions I've picked up on also.
List them all and i will respond. Funny that you dont respond to my evidence though. No cross examinations, no dissecting of history, just your opinion. As to the first one...
I never said surrender is “out.” I said surrender is not the definition of saving faith. Those are two very different claims.
You’re reacting to a shift that feels like contradiction, but it isn’t. It’s a distinction between what saves and what follows salvation.
 
Words I picked up on. Modern, outdated, etc.

We don't need to discover any new truths, we need to rediscover the old truths.

And thats what I bring to the table. I can link what's been happening with me, to what was happening to Gods people in the OT. And no, im not going to elaborate.

The mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing have grown into a movement. That movement has morphed into support from fringe dictionaries, commentaries and so on. If your heart is telling you to join that path, selah.Salah.

Just remember, God did send you someone to try and save you.
And yet you provide no proof for your assertions.
 
And yet you provide no proof for your assertions.

Proof, my proof is the established Greek dictionaries, you not accepting their definitions and saying negative things about them doesn't change that fact.

My hands are tied, if you can't accept the foundational truths, you'll never accept the rest.
 
List them all and i will respond. Funny that you dont respond to my evidence though. No cross examinations, no dissecting of history, just your opinion. As to the first one...
I never said surrender is “out.” I said surrender is not the definition of saving faith. Those are two very different claims.
You’re reacting to a shift that feels like contradiction, but it isn’t. It’s a distinction between what saves and what follows salvation.

Do you make a personal surrender to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender , every day! All day if necessary?
 
Proof, my proof is the established Greek dictionaries, you not accepting their definitions and saying negative things about them doesn't change that fact.

My hands are tied, if you can't accept the foundational truths, you'll never accept the rest.
These are just a few of the books i consult for understanding of 1st century Greek.
BDAG
Louw-Nida Semantic Domains
EDNT (Exegetical Dictionary of the NT)
Moulton & Milligan (papyri-based)

If you find fault with any of these then please share.
 
Do you make a personal surrender to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender , every day! All day if necessary?
Yes — I do make a real, ongoing, personal surrender to Christ, and I live a life inspired by that surrender every day, but that daily surrender is the fruit of faith, not the basis of salvation.
 
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Yes — I do make a real, ongoing, personal surrender to Christ, and I live a life inspired by that surrender every day, but that daily surrender is the fruit of faith, not the basis of salvation.

I never said a continually surrendered life is the base of salvation. I said it's the correct response to it. And thats what NT saving faith is.
 
These are just a few of the books i consult for understanding of 1st century Greek.
BDAG
Louw-Nida Semantic Domains
EDNT (Exegetical Dictionary of the NT)
Moulton & Milligan (papyri-based)

If you find fault with any of these then please share.

The book writers are subject to true definitions of the Greek language, just like anyone else.

Lets try and get back on track.

Do you have a gifted teacher? One that has been perfecting you, or are you perfecting yourself, like you said over the last 57 years.?
 
Yes — I do make a real, ongoing, personal surrender to Christ, and I live a life inspired by that surrender every day, but that daily surrender is the fruit of faith, not the basis of salvation.

OK, then let's go back to the beginning, and break it down.

Our state of being before we are called out:
1) Rom.8:9, we are none of His! Christ, His word, His Spirit, His word, and the promises in His word are not ours to claim.

Do you agree with this state of being?
 
The book writers are subject to true definitions of the Greek language, just like anyone else.

Lets try and get back on track.

Do you have a gifted teacher? One that has been perfecting you, or are you perfecting yourself, like you said over the last 57 years.?
You said, "The book writers are subject to true definitions of the Greek language, just like anyone else."
Your statement is exactly right — and it cuts straight to the heart of why modern lexical work matters. Biblical authors, translators, and modern book writers are all bound to the actual semantic realities of first‑century Greek. No one gets to redefine Koine Greek to fit a doctrine, a tradition, or an English theological category. The language itself sets the boundaries.
 
OK, then let's go back to the beginning, and break it down.

Our state of being before we are called out:
1) Rom.8:9, we are none of His! Christ, His word, His Spirit, His word, and the promises in His word are not ours to claim.

Do you agree with this state of being?
Yes , your statement is correct in the covenantal sense Paul intended. Before calling, we are, not Christ’s, not indwelt, not heirs, not participants in the promises, not spiritually alive.
But we are still:
God’s creatures
under His authority
commanded to repent
objects of His sovereign plan
This preserves both Paul’s precision and the broader biblical framework.
 
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You said, "The book writers are subject to true definitions of the Greek language, just like anyone else."
Your statement is exactly right — and it cuts straight to the heart of why modern lexical work matters. Biblical authors, translators, and modern book writers are all bound to the actual semantic realities of first‑century Greek. No one gets to redefine Koine Greek to fit a doctrine, a tradition, or an English theological category. The language itself sets the boundaries.

Something you should know about me.

When I started the daily surrendered life, God put one of those gifted teachers in my path. I had no idea how great a teacher he was at the time, just that he was the only one validating the experiences I was having.

He not only spoke all the ancient languages, he amassed the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands, behind the Vatican. And He taught from those manuscripts.
Stanford grad, 50 years in ministry, 24/7 teaching.
I've absorbed his teachings for 38 years.

So having the best instructor by far , doesn't leave much room for getting excited about someone not even in his hemisphere.

So if you think I need to be brought up to speed on something, im probably already there.

With yhat said, id like to know if you have a gifted teacher, and if you agree on the state of being i referenced.
 
Yes , your statement is correct in the covenantal sense Paul intended. Before calling, we are, not Christ’s, not indwelt, not heirs, not participants in the promises, not spiritually alive.
But we are still:
God’s creatures
under His authority
commanded to repent
objects of His sovereign plan
This preserves both Paul’s precision and the broader biblical framework.

OK.
Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father draws, calls them out.

Are you in agreement with that?
 
Something you should know about me.

When I started the daily surrendered life, God put one of those gifted teachers in my path. I had no idea how great a teacher he was at the time, just that he was the only one validating the experiences I was having.

He not only spoke all the ancient languages, he amassed the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands, behind the Vatican. And He taught from those manuscripts.
Stanford grad, 50 years in ministry, 24/7 teaching.
I've absorbed his teachings for 38 years.

So having the best instructor by far , doesn't leave much room for getting excited about someone not even in his hemisphere.

So if you think I need to be brought up to speed on something, im probably already there.

With yhat said, id like to know if you have a gifted teacher, and if you agree on the state of being i referenced.
“The anointing you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you.” 1 John 2:2
Jesus is my "Great Teacher"
and yes, I agree with the " state of being" because Scripture affirms it.
The daily surrendered life is not optional. It is the biblical pattern of discipleship.
It is the life Jesus described. It is the life Paul lived. It is the life the apostles taught.
And it is the life the Spirit empowers.
 
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OK.
Nobody comes to Christ unless the Father draws, calls them out.

Are you in agreement with that?
Yes, I agree — fully, textually, and without qualification — with the statement: "No one comes to Christ unless the Father draws them".
And I don’t just “agree” in a general theological sense. I agree in the precise Johannine sense, the Pauline sense, and the canonical sense of how the call operates.
 
“The anointing you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you.” 1 John 2:2
Jesus is my "Great Teacher"
and yes, I agree with the " state of being" because Scripture affirms it.
The daily surrendered life is not optional. It is the biblical pattern of discipleship.
It is the life Jesus described. It is the life Paul lived. It is the life the apostles taught.
And it is the life the Spirit empowers.

Thats not 1 john 2:2
 
“The anointing you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you.” 1 John 2:2
Jesus is my "Great Teacher"
and yes, I agree with the " state of being" because Scripture affirms it.
The daily surrendered life is not optional. It is the biblical pattern of discipleship.
It is the life Jesus described. It is the life Paul lived. It is the life the apostles taught.
And it is the life the Spirit empowers.

That verse 1 john 2:27 is talking about " them that seduce you."

Eph.4: 11-12 tells us there are only two options. Either a gifted teacher perfecting saints, or saints being perfected by those gifted teachers.

I don't want to get off track, thank you for being honest about it.
 
Yes, I agree — fully, textually, and without qualification — with the statement: "No one comes to Christ unless the Father draws them".
And I don’t just “agree” in a general theological sense. I agree in the precise Johannine sense, the Pauline sense, and the canonical sense of how the call operates.

OK

So here i am, godless without any connection to Him other than being one of His creatures.
The Father decides to call me out . The Holy Spirit is covertly doing the leg work, in the call of the Father. But the Holy spirits engagement with me is external only.

Do you agree?