Is Salvation an event or a process?
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Well Paul specifically says when he sins, it's not him doing it anymore, but sin dwelling in me doing it. He's defining Sanctification, that separation from our sinful natures.
This is a state of being in Christ.
The Greek breaks down Rom.7:14-21 as God and satan in trench warfare ( a military term) for our souls. We are simply a third party onlooker that only has the power who to give ourselves to ( who to surrender ourselves to). Thus giving either God or datan power in that fight. If we choose God, we are growing in the process, one part of that process is separation from our sinful nature's, Sanctification, just like paul.
So we could in that state with the mind of Christ being in constant prayer, separated from our sinful
Only if you believe Romans 7 is referring to a saved individual. What do you believe the context of chapter 7 is? For that matter, how would you break down Romans 5-8?
Post 42 and post 43 break it down quite nicely I thought.
Yes, Paul is referring to himself in Rom. 7: 14-21, and I do understand him to be saved at the time he penned it.
What Paul is describing is a man in the process of being saved. That's why he asks...who will deliver me? If someone is seeking deliverance from a condition, there is therefore a solution to the condition.
Keep reading into chapter 8. Being delivered means we walk in the Spirit. And according to Galatians 5:16, those walking in the Spirit do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
Thus, one cannot be both walking in the Spirit and walking in the flesh.
Since we don't agree on what saving faith is, it's not a surprise we won't agree on Gods word also.
.I'll just leave it at that.
Yes. Sinning is bidirectional. Sins one personally commits and sins associated with not doing God's will when the opportunity presents itself. i.e. The Good Samaritan
Cameron143
Do you understand what a metaphor is? If you are reading this literally, then when exactly do you know you are "walking in the Spirit?" How does it feel? What emotions and physical sensations are associated with it. Is "walking in the Spirit" the same as running in the Spirit or sitting in the Spirit, listening to the Spirit or sleeping in the Spirit? Seems to me this is either a metaphor or something nobody I have ever met claims to have experienced. - the lust free life. Is Paul in Galatians continuing the metaphor or is he saying anyone who "has lust in their heart," to us a Presidential perspective, is not walking in the spirit? Does that include lustful experiences while one sleeps?
Generally: The “lust of the flesh” is a biblical concept that refers to the innate human desire for worldly pleasures and sensual gratification. This includes desires for food, sex, material possessions, and other temporal things that appeal to our physical appetites and fleshly nature.
Thus is a new car, a new house, a new dress or suit, a steak dinner or a Netflix movie rated below G, or wearing a swimsuit or dancing, or bad eating habits, or fascination and political support for the uber-rich, the size of your savings/investments, teaching your children to lust after athletic fame and recognition, etc. One could make the case that the "lust of the flesh" is everything you want but do not yet have.
On the other hand, if it is a metaphor, then the warning is noted and needs thoughtful awareness about you life and influence.
You cannot be simultaneously in the Spirit and in the flesh. And according to Galatians 5:16, when we are in the Spirit, we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. So what is being spoken of in Romans 7 is not saying we both sin and not sin concurrently.
Romans 7 is part of a larger argument being made. In Romans 5-8, Paul is making the argument for the security of the believer. He does this in chapters 5 and 8. In chapters 6 and 7 the Apostle deals with a couple of questions he anticipates from his readers. The first is sin and its relation to grace. In chapter 7, he deals with the purpose of the law. In effect, his argument is the same as that in Galatians 3:24...the law is a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. And he lays it out very well. He wants to do well, but finds he cannot. So, in light of this, he turns to Christ for deliverance.
Taken with the whole of scripture, it is erroneous to conclude that we can both sin and not sin at the same time.
To avoid the "proof text" trap. Let's look at what Paul is saying and the framework he uses.
For you were called to freedom, brothers and sisters; only do not use your freedom as an opportunity to indulge your flesh, but through love serve one another. 14For the whole law can be summed up in a single commandment, namely, “You must love your neighbor as yourself.” 15However, if you continually bite and devour one another, beware that you are not consumed by one another. 16But I say, live by the Spirit and you will not carry out the desires of the flesh. 17For the flesh has desires that are opposed to the Spirit, and the Spirit has desires that are opposed to the flesh, for these are in opposition to each other, so that you cannot do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, depravity, 20idolatry, sorcery, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish rivalries, dissensions, factions, 21envying, murder, drunkenness, carousing, and similar things. I am warning you, as I had warned you before: Those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God!
You are born in freedom. Don't misuse it. Focus on the foundational requirement to love your neighbor as yourself. That positive command would greatly relieve the need for a huge laundry list of thing not to do. The Spirit and the flesh are in a state of contention.
The things we tend to want to ignore about the living in the flesh are: if you continually bite and devour one another you may be consumed. You cannot live a Christian life and "do what your want." Aside from the bright shiny sins we tend to highlight are equal sins that include: idolatry, impurity, hostilities, strife, jealousy, angry outbursts, selfish rivalries, dissensions and factions, envying...
I say they are ignored because I have listened to thousands of sermons but there are three subjects that are apparently forbidden to discuss. 1. The above noted walking in the flesh details. 2. Divorce and unscriptural remarriage. 3 The entire 25th Chapter of Matthew.
So, if those things that have been warring against the Spirit from the beginning of biblical time, why are they not preached or a centerpoint of bible study? Perhaps one reason is that the very fact that there are thousands of warring Christian denominations and non-denominations might suggest the very existence of our Church may have come from "hostilities, impurity, strife, jealousy, anger, angry outbursts, selfish rivalries, dessensions and factions.
What are you on about? I'm talking about 1 thing: walking according to the flesh or according to the Spirit. One cannot do both simultaneously.
Is there a way you can word those two things that would be acceptable to you.
I would say , we walk according to the spirit while still living in the flesh, "at the same time." Another paradoxical truth, two opposite truths happening simultaneously .
You will only find the truth about paradoxical truths in Gods word by mining in the Greek rexts.
I can give you many paradoxical truths if you like?
We walk in the Spirit while still living in a body. We are both body and spirit. No paradox or contradiction.
The Spirit and flesh are diametrically opposed. The body and the spirit are not.
When we walk in the Spirit, we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh...Galatians 5:16. Both cannot be true. We cannot be walking according to the Spirit and sinning in the flesh.
So when Paul said , when i do what I don't want to, it's not me doing it, but sin dwelling in me doing it, he was a liar?