Is Salvation an event or a process?
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Are you really saying that with a straight face ? Cause I'm visualizing you grinning hoping I'm going to buy that.
I'll give you props though for taking it on.
Most preachers hurdle right over Rom. 7 and don't look back.
Definitly an event.. Once one crosses that line of believing Jesus and trusting in His Atoning sacrafice one is in a state of salvation / being saved...
There is a process that happens in parralell to this and that is growth in the knowledge and other human traits that get ironed out through the disapline of The Everlasting Father.. But once you are saved then you are saved.
Precious friend, kinda like this, eh?:
One-Time Event: "Who will have all men to Be Saved, and..."
Then, life-long process: "...to come unto the knowledge of The Truth." (1 Timothy 2:4 AV),
Correct?
Amen.
Short answer: Salvation is a process. Romans 1:17. I'll quote from my video which comes out next Wednesday. In the following two paragraphs, I talk about Paul's expression "from faith to faith."
Yes, The Holy Spirit works on us over time to mold us and keep us in the flock.. Iron out the kinks..
But Salvation is like pregnancy.. A woman is either pregnant or she is not pregnant.. There is no half pregnant state..
Adstar:
In what ways does the Holy Spirit work to mold us and keep us in the flock...Iron out the kinks? I like the pregnancy metaphor. Is it possible for someone to claim they are "saved" without life change like a women who thinks they are pregnant but there is no delivery. So we claim faith but never deliver the love of God to the sick, poor, broken, addicted, imprisoned etc. Seems to me that is a lot more like a false pregnancy.
Both. Salvation has three parts - justification, sancitifcation, glorification, the beginning, the process and the end of salvation. When the Lord was crucified on the cross, His job was finished, but the church's job had just started.
Lovette:
Love the big category words, however they beg for definition. I would love to understand your definitions.
3Ps: Free from the penalty of sin, free from the power of sin, free from the presence of sin.
Lovette:
You seem to believe that Christians are free from the penalty of sin? Sin killed, Jesus and every Apostle and Christian martyr. Sin killed millions of Christians in the Protestant/Catholic wars. So, I don't get the free from the penalty of sin. If you sin by murder are you free from the penalty of your sin? Is the person murdered from your sin? If, as our President once said, he looked upon a women with lust in his heart, wasn't he free from the power of sin? Are Christian drug addicts free from the power of sin? Does being free from the presences of sin mean you no longer see it, hear it, feel it, struggle with it or experience it? Or does it mean it is a matter of little import?
If you are talking exclusively about in the next life, any formula works. The Christian world has hundreds of them.
I do in fact, understand the 600 yr old formula you present. I know of its origins and evolution. I know of its role in creeds, dogmas and inter-denominational wars. IMHO it fails the test because it creates a religion all about me! me! me!
IMHO, Christianity is 180 degrees away from that kind of dogma. Following Jesus was always about a total conversion away from self-interest, self-love and self-righteousness. If you don't love God and your neighbor as yourself then all the ancient "religious" formulas are self-delusion. Taking up our daily cross is sacrificing of self not aggrandising of self via medieval magic formulas. Jesus said if you stay faithful to the end you will saved. Faithful to Him not to creeds and dogmas. Certainty not a salvation based on a head nod to a 60 second pulpit prayer guaranteeing heaven without accountability for what's in your life so long as what is in your head is "right." We want to anthropomorphize what is in our heads to "what is in our hearts," just so long as it does not travel down any lower into our hands, feet, knees, mouth and wallet.
Yes, if you seem to believe Christians will be resurrected, for the wages of sin is death. Denial of this is denial of Christ's atonement for our sins on the cross.
Yeah, religion is opium for the masses, isn't it. IMHO, that's demonic spirit from hell.
It has been my experience that we tend to "demonize" people who have traits, attitudes and or behaviors that make us feel threatened. Karl Marx for instance, gets linked to the rise of the corrupt, predatory Communism we know but he died long before it arose.
He fundamentally reshaped Western thought by shifting how intellectuals analyze history, economics, and social power, establishing a critical framework that links human consciousness directly to material and economic conditions. His core Contributions to Western thought is through what he termed Historical Materialism: Arguing that human societies and their cultural institutions are driven primarily by material and economic foundations rather than by ideals or pure philosophy.
Critique of Capitalism: Provided a profound economic critique in Das Kapital detailing how market structures generate systemic inequality, alienation, and the concentration of wealth.
Theory of Class Struggle: Popularized the view that history advances through conflicts between opposing socioeconomic groups—notably the rich and powerful and the working class.
He was badly mistaken about his belief that the rise of the working class to control the government would create a more just society. Followers later developed his utopian working class revolution ideas into the opposite result...a totalitarian state that impoverished and destroyed unity and workers rights based on coercion and corruption and an unelected dictator.
Communism started as was loosely based on The Communist Manifesto written by Marx and published in 1848. The first Communist government was founded in 1917 and Communism died a natural death in the Soviet Union in late 1991. Communism evolved to a form that Marx would not recognize in today's free market communists countries such as China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea and Vietnam where companies operate via entrepreneurship and with only lite control from the communist party.
The on the ground difference between these communist countries and western democracies is that in the west the political power is established by the people who vote for all level of government. In China for instance, there are multiple levels of voting but not directly for the Chairman of the Communist Party or other high party positions. The communist party in China has evolved very locally elected government positions at the Township, county, village and neighborhood levels. They have substantial power, money and responsibility. For many rural Chinese, these positions are the one most important to their day to day life.