Is Salvation instantaneous and permanent?

[faithhopecharity101]

Peter warned that false teachers would creep in his congregation right after he was gone!!!!!!!

2 Peter 2:1​

​

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. ​

They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—​

Bringing swift destruction on themselves. ​

Note!
Among Peter's own congregation!

​

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. ​

​

So much for the succession of popes.

​

The Reformation was when believers finally having enough, wanted to get back to real Biblical understanding.

You follow the Bible?

And call no man father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matthew 23:9-11

That was not about calling your parent 'father.'
Jesus spoke of titles of positions held by men in authority!

Now what?

Are you going to go ask father McMahan if what I said is true?

I grew up with Catholics.
Most of my friends and playmates were Catholics.
I have nothing against Catholics as a people.

My Catholic friends who finally began studying the Bible will mostly agree with me.

call no man father really? whats the real biblical understanding?


Matt 23:9
Call no man father? Jesus is only condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

Or is this absolute?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Acts 3:22 Moses said unto the fathers…

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

Apostles call men father!

1 Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Jn 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus does not rebuke her for calling men father!


Then there is spiritual fathers who have care for our souls! Heb 13:7-17

Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

thkz

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Peter warned that false teachers would creep in his congregation right after he was gone!!!!!!!

2 Peter 2:1​

​

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. ​

They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—​

Bringing swift destruction on themselves. ​

Note!
Among Peter's own congregation!

​

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. ​

​

So much for the succession of popes.

​

The Reformation was when believers finally having enough, wanted to get back to real Biblical understanding.

You follow the Bible?

And call no man father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matthew 23:9-11

That was not about calling your parent 'father.'
Jesus spoke of titles of positions held by men in authority!

Now what?

Are you going to go ask father McMahan if what I said is true?

I grew up with Catholics.
Most of my friends and playmates were Catholics.
I have nothing against Catholics as a people.

My Catholic friends who finally began studying the Bible will mostly agree with me.

where does scripture authorize a reformation!

truth and the church are of divine origin!

how can they be reformed ?

thkz

 

[Gideon300]

we do have eternal life just not eternal salvation

eternal life is the life of God called grace

1 cor 13:2 have not charity, this is grace the life of God, and God is love! 1 Jn 4:8 heb 12:29

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthenvessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

we can merit an increase of grace and must do so per 2 pet 3:18

thks

How can you have eternal life and not eternal salvation? You make no sense.

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Peter warned that false teachers would creep in his congregation right after he was gone!!!!!!!

2 Peter 2:1​

​

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. ​

They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—​

Bringing swift destruction on themselves. ​

Note!
Among Peter's own congregation!

​

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. ​

​

So much for the succession of popes.

​

The Reformation was when believers finally having enough, wanted to get back to real Biblical understanding.

You follow the Bible?

And call no man father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matthew 23:9-11

That was not about calling your parent 'father.'
Jesus spoke of titles of positions held by men in authority!

Now what?

Are you going to go ask father McMahan if what I said is true?

I grew up with Catholics.
Most of my friends and playmates were Catholics.
I have nothing against Catholics as a people.

My Catholic friends who finally began studying the Bible will mostly agree with me.

now your pushing my buttons!

where do christian's get authority to be "fed up" and invent their own religion or church or doctrine?

thats purely the "tradition of men"!

you must admit that the revolt (so-called reform) was the greatest cause of confusion, error, and division?

30,000 sects all unauthorized all teaching contradictory doctrines!

thkz

 

[Genez]

call no man father really? whats the real biblical understanding?


Matt 23:9
Call no man father? Jesus is only condemning pride and spiritual pride of the Pharisees?

Or is this absolute?

God calls men father!

Ex 3:6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

Jesus calls men father!

Jn 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Mary calls men father!

Lk 1:55 As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever.

Peter calls men father!

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Acts 3:22 Moses said unto the fathers…

The stephen calls men father!

Acts 7 Stephen quotes the fathers over and over!

Apostles call men father!

1 Jn 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.

14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

The Bible calls men father!

Luke 16:24
And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.


Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


Jn 4:20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.

Jesus does not rebuke her for calling men father!


Then there is spiritual fathers who have care for our souls! Heb 13:7-17

Isa 22 the administrator of the kingdom is called father, so the same for Peter, the apostles, and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

thkz

"Father" was used as a title for men!
Jesus was speaking against using certain titles for men.

“But you are not to let yourselves be called ‘Rabbi’; because you have one Rabbi,
and you are all each other’s brothers. And do not call anyone on earth ‘Father.’
Because you have one Father, and he is in heaven. Nor are you to let yourselves
be called ‘leaders,’ because you have one Leader, and he is the Messiah! Matthew 23:8-10

It was all about "title."

It was common practice in parts of the world...

Father Lenin" is a title often used to refer to Vladimir Lenin, who was the leader of the Bolshevik Party and the first head of government of Soviet Russia and the Soviet Union. This title reflects his role in establishing the world's first communist state and his significant influence on the Soviet Union's early development.

The people called him "Father Lenin."

Become a Christian.

 

[Genez]

now your pushing my buttons!

where do christian's get authority to be "fed up" and invent their own religion or church or doctrine?

thats purely the "tradition of men"!

you must admit that the revolt (so-called reform) was the greatest cause of confusion, error, and division?

30,000 sects all unauthorized all teaching contradictory doctrines!

thkz

And, the Catholic Church wanted to be the monopoly in keeping people from understanding Christianity and the Bible.

RELIGIOUS ARROGANCE!

Are we to confess our sins to a priest?
Or, to God directly?

1 John 1:9 says....​

​

If we confess/acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins ​

and purify us from all unrighteousness.​

No penance needed!

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Peter warned that false teachers would creep in his congregation right after he was gone!!!!!!!

2 Peter 2:1​

​

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. ​

They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—​

Bringing swift destruction on themselves. ​

Note!
Among Peter's own congregation!

​

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. ​

​

So much for the succession of popes.

​

The Reformation was when believers finally having enough, wanted to get back to real Biblical understanding.

You follow the Bible?

And call no man father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matthew 23:9-11

That was not about calling your parent 'father.'
Jesus spoke of titles of positions held by men in authority!

Now what?

Are you going to go ask father McMahan if what I said is true?

I grew up with Catholics.
Most of my friends and playmates were Catholics.
I have nothing against Catholics as a people.

My Catholic friends who finally began studying the Bible will mostly agree with me.

the one true church was founded by Christ and does teach error any more than Christ does!

Lk 10:16 He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

Jn 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jn 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

mt 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

and 1:8 my witnesses!

Christ and His church are one!
acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Only one true church founded by Christ exercising His authority!
mt 16:18-19 Jn 10:16

same authority as Christ Jn 20:21-23

thkz

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Peter warned that false teachers would creep in his congregation right after he was gone!!!!!!!

2 Peter 2:1​

​

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. ​

They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—​

Bringing swift destruction on themselves. ​

Note!
Among Peter's own congregation!

​

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. ​

​

So much for the succession of popes.

​

The Reformation was when believers finally having enough, wanted to get back to real Biblical understanding.

You follow the Bible?

And call no man father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. Matthew 23:9-11

That was not about calling your parent 'father.'
Jesus spoke of titles of positions held by men in authority!

Now what?

Are you going to go ask father McMahan if what I said is true?

I grew up with Catholics.
Most of my friends and playmates were Catholics.
I have nothing against Catholics as a people.

My Catholic friends who finally began studying the Bible will mostly agree with me.

mt 16:18-19 the gates of hell shall not prevail!

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, & the life! Jn 14:6

His church is the pillar and ground of truth! 1 tim 3:15

thkz

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Stop with that!

You believed in Jesus.
And, you got saved.

You presently need to complicate things to try to compensate for the deficiency you now suffer from.
You need good bible teaching.

"a good bible teaching" iow fundamentalist teaching?

does not the bible says:
we are required to abide in Christ and bear fruit? Lk 3:9 & Jn 15:1-6

rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

(what if they walk after the flesh?)


Gal 6:7-8

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

do they not teach conditional
perseverance?

thkz

 

[faithhopecharity101]

How can you have eternal life and not eternal salvation? You make no sense.

we do have eternal life just not eternal salvation

eternal life is the life of God called grace

1 cor 13:2 have not charity, this is grace the life of God, and God is love! 1 Jn 4:8heb 12:29

we can lose grace or eternal life but not eternal salvation

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

gal 5:4 fall from grace

will never inherit the kingdom of God or attain to eternal salvation

mt 25:30
Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1
gal 5:19-21
gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
1 tim 5:12
rev 21:8
rev 21:27

rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

(what if they walk after the flesh?)


Gal 6:7-8

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


we can merit an increase of grace and must do so per 2 pet 3:18

thks

 

[PaulThomson]

mt 25:24-30

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

thks

I don’t see any reference there to someone being irrevocably eternally lost.

PaulThomson said:
I don’t remember seeing anywhere in scripture where anyone is declared at any time irrevocably eternally lost. Maybe I missed it.

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Stop with that!

You believed in Jesus.
And, you got saved.

You presently need to complicate things to try to compensate for the deficiency you now suffer from.
You need good bible teaching.

are apostates saved?

can we reject Christ?

can we reject faith?

how is a martyr saved?

thkz

 

[Genez]

mt 16:18-19 the gates of hell shall not prevail!

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, & the life! Jn 14:6

His church is the pillar and ground of truth! 1 tim 3:15

thkz

No argument about that.

Even the worst losers who believed in Christ amongst us will be saved.

If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, precious stones, wood, ​

hay or straw, their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring ​

it to light. ​

It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.
If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.

If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though ​

only as one escaping through the flames.​

1 Corinthians 3:12-15

You can fail to do any Biblical good works, and you will still be saved from the Lake of Fire.

.

 

[Genez]

"a good bible teaching" iow fundamentalist teaching?

Not at all.

Fundamentalist are stuck in the fundamental mode of thinking.

Advanced teaching that delves into the intricacies of the Greek and Hebrew texts (not simply concordances and dictionaries).
And, delves into the historical setting of the context of which such truths were being made known.

Nothing like you have been exposed to.

 

[Gideon300]

we do have eternal life just not eternal salvation

eternal life is the life of God called grace

1 cor 13:2 have not charity, this is grace the life of God, and God is love! 1 Jn 4:8heb 12:29

we can lose grace or eternal life but not eternal salvation

2 Corinthians 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

gal 5:4 fall from grace

will never inherit the kingdom of God or attain to eternal salvation

mt 25:30
Eph 5:2-6
gal 5:1
gal 5:19-21
gal 6:7-8
1 cor 6:9-10 & 15-20
1 tim 5:12
rev 21:8
rev 21:27

rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

(what if they walk after the flesh?)


Gal 6:7-8

7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.


we can merit an increase of grace and must do so per 2 pet 3:18

thks

Wonderful. Quote a bunch of Bible verses and ignore the question. I'll try again. What is the difference between eternal life and salvation?

 

[Genez]

Wonderful. Quote a bunch of Bible verses and ignore the question. I'll try again. What is the difference between eternal life and salvation?

It's hard to teach someone to tie their shoelaces when they keep tripping over them...
They can't stand still long enough to learn what is being shown to them.

Only God's grace could make them be still.
Trying to do God's will in the energy of our natural selves is doomed to failure.

 

[faithhopecharity101]

Are you saved?

Am I saved?

What are you arguing over?

Who has screwed with your mind?

can a man be saved without a priest?

thkz

 

[faithhopecharity101]

And, the Catholic Church wanted to be the monopoly in keeping people from understanding Christianity and the Bible.

RELIGIOUS ARROGANCE!

Are we to confess our sins to a priest?
Or, to God directly?

1 John 1:9 says....​

​

If we confess/acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins ​

and purify us from all unrighteousness.​

No penance needed!

Jn20:21-23

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

the new covenant church is a kingdom with authority to govern, teach, and sanctify!

you don't have a vote!

tjkz

 

[faithhopecharity101]

And, the Catholic Church wanted to be the monopoly in keeping people from understanding Christianity and the Bible.

RELIGIOUS ARROGANCE!

Are we to confess our sins to a priest?
Or, to God directly?

1 John 1:9 says....​

​

If we confess/acknowledge our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins ​

and purify us from all unrighteousness.​

No penance needed!

Christ established His church in apostolic authority!

mt 16:18 eph 2:20 mt 28:19-20

one unity with Christ! mt 28:20 acts 1:1-8 acts 9:4 eph 5:24 & eph 5:32

thkz

 

[faithhopecharity101]

I don’t see any reference there to someone being irrevocably eternally lost.

PaulThomson said:
I don’t remember seeing anywhere in scripture where anyone is declared at any time irrevocably eternally lost. Maybe I missed it.

outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

that's a description of one who is eternally lost

vs 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

vs 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

thkz