Is Salvation instantaneous and permanent?

[Mem]

In Luke 15, the Pharisees were among the audience when Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep and the parable of the lost coin and follow them with the parable of the prodigal son. He summarized the first two as examples of the joy in heaven over one sinner who repents and that is reflective of the example of the father's joy over his son's return.

Okay, what about: "Unless the old nature becomes completely corrupt, God enables sinners to repent and seek salvation."

A note of interest is given as the cross reference of the parable of the prodigal son, Deut 21:18-21, which offers a relevant insight into the juxtaposition of Jesus and the new covenant and the Pharisees and the old covenant when the father exclaimed, "this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found."

 

[GWH]

In Luke 15, the Pharisees were among the audience when Jesus tells the parable of the lost sheep and the parable of the lost coin and follow them with the parable of the prodigal son. He summarized the first two as examples of the joy in heaven over one sinner who repents and that is reflective of the example of the father's joy over his son's return.

A note of interest is given as the cross reference of the parable of the prodigal son, Deut 21:18-21, which offers a relevant insight into the juxtaposition of Jesus and the new covenant and the Pharisees and the old covenant when the father exclaimed, "this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found."

Not sure how Deut. 21:18-21 is applicable, but I do see how the prodigal son might refer to the Jews.
Interesting note!

 

[Gideon300]

Okay, what about: "Unless the old nature becomes completely corrupt, God enables sinners to repent and seek salvation."

God has saved people who most would say are completely corrupt. John Newton, who wrote "Amazing Grace" and "How sweet the name of Jesus sounds" was a slave trader. How much lower can you go? I read the testimony of a man who was incensed because people were going to a meeting and bypassing his bar. He went to the meeting with a gun, intending to kill the preacher. He listened to what the preacher had to say and went out the front, gun and all, and repented and was saved.

Nicky Cruz, gang leader and a career criminal: https://www.christianity.com/wiki/people/nicky-cruz.html

Romans 3:10 & 11
“There is no one righteous, not even one. There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God."

God loves and saves sinners. Those who are forgiven much love much.

 

[Mem]

Not sure how Deut. 21:18-21 is applicable, but I do see how the prodigal son might refer to the Jews.
Interesting note!

It was instruction for the parents' necessary treatment of a rebellious son who is found to be a 'glutton and a drunkard.' The prescription was that the present him to the elders of the city and declare it, and all the men of the city were to stone him to death with stones. In the parable, the father permitted him the 'life' he chose, leaving him to his own decisions in concern with his own fate.

 

[PaulThomson]

The word is used in Rom. 16:26 of God.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment ​

of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

​

Question: Does the word of God really mean “eternal” or “everlasting” in Matt. 25:46? or only “age-lasting?”​

T. H. T, ​

Answer: The word is used in Rom. 16:26 of God, in Heb. 9:14 of the Spirit, ​

and in 1 John 1:2 of that life which Christ was and is. Are They merely age-lasting? ​

In 2 Cor. 4:18 the same is contrasted with “temporal,” instead of being similar in force, ​

as these false teachers aver. Nay, the verse itself refutes their desire; for even they own ​

that the life of the saints is “everlasting,” and the same word in the same sentence is ​

applied to the punishment of the wicked. Hebrew, Greek, English, or any other tongue, ​

makes no difference. The N. T. differs from the Old in the utmost clearness as to this, ​

now that Christ is come; as the O. T. had dwelt chiefly on the present government of God, ​

while pointing here and there to the eternal things which are now unveiled under the gospel.​

​

https://bibletruthpublishers.com/eternal-everlasting-or-age-lasting/questions-and-answers-on-scripture-from-the-bible-treasury/bible-treasury/la159152​

I told you that it CAN be used of a period of time that is endless. But it does not inherently mean a period of time that is endless, but a period of time that has no presently determinable end. Something which has no presently determinable end may have no presently determinable end because it has no end, as in God’s existence. But we cannot assume that it means an endless period in any particular case, unless we have clear evidence that it means that in its context.

"The unending God is allowing me to suffer unending hassles with the Inland Revenue Department,” does not mean that my IRD hassles will last forever.

 

[PaulThomson]

I want to see the translation written out.

Let's see what it looks like when you get it your way.

To see how logical it is.

It is my opinion that in Matt. 25, the parable of the ten virgins is about the readiness of the saints at the time Christ returns, which professing Christians will enter the 1000 year reign and which will not; the parable of the talents is about the rewards given to the professing Christians who are accepted into the 1000 year reign; and the parable of the sheep and the goats is about the judgment of unbelievers who survive Jesus return.

The sheep are non-believers and foolish virgins who gave succour to persecuted Christians, they are called “the righteous" and are given to live under the saints’ reign for 1000 years. The goats are non-believers and foolish virgins who ignored the plight of believers being persecuted. They are called ”ye cursed”.

Mat 25:46
And (καὶ) these i.e.cursed (οὗτοι) shall go away (ἀπελεύσονται) into (εἰς) an age-long punishment (κόλασιν αἰώνιον): but (δὲ) the righteous (οἱ δίκαιοι) into ( εἰς) an age-long (ζωὴν αἰώνιον).

Age-long means during the 1000 year reign the cursed will be punished for some or all of that 1000 years, and the righteous will enjoy life on earth under the saints’ reign during the 1000 year reign, living much longer lives, but still able to die, as Is. 66 says -

Isa 65:20
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the childshall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

 

[Roger316]

The Greek word translated in your English Bible version as “everlasting” is aiOnios, which does not mean “everlasting”. It is an adjective formed from aiOn, an eon or an age, and means “having the nature of an age/aeon, i.e. age-long/aeon-long. The Greek word for "without end" is “aperantos”, i.e. a- not, + perantos finished (used in 1Tim. 1:4) and "eis to diEkenes” (continually, lit. into the through-carried/into the continuity) used in Heb. 7:3; 10:1, 12, 14.

So your proof-texts simply don’t say what you want them to say, unless you arbitrarily read your opinion into the biblical text.

It is also used in contexts that describe what life will be like in the coming age. Around here we call the coming age, "Ionic life," or "Life as it will be in the age of ages."

 

[Roger316]

The word is used in Rom. 16:26 of God.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment ​

of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:​

​

Question: Does the word of God really mean “eternal” or “everlasting” in Matt. 25:46? or only “age-lasting?”​

T. H. T, ​

Answer: The word is used in Rom. 16:26 of God, in Heb. 9:14 of the Spirit, ​

and in 1 John 1:2 of that life which Christ was and is. Are They merely age-lasting? ​

In 2 Cor. 4:18 the same is contrasted with “temporal,” instead of being similar in force, ​

as these false teachers aver. Nay, the verse itself refutes their desire; for even they own ​

that the life of the saints is “everlasting,” and the same word in the same sentence is ​

applied to the punishment of the wicked. Hebrew, Greek, English, or any other tongue, ​

makes no difference. The N. T. differs from the Old in the utmost clearness as to this, ​

now that Christ is come; as the O. T. had dwelt chiefly on the present government of God, ​

while pointing here and there to the eternal things which are now unveiled under the gospel.​

​

https://bibletruthpublishers.com/eternal-everlasting-or-age-lasting/questions-and-answers-on-scripture-from-the-bible-treasury/bible-treasury/la159152​

Yes — εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας does indeed mean “unto the ages”, and in biblical Greek it functions idiomatically to mean “forever.”

 

[Genez]

I told you that it CAN be used of a period of time that is endless.

Thank you.

 

[Genez]

Yes — εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας does indeed mean “unto the ages”, and in biblical Greek it functions idiomatically to mean “forever.”

Yes.... Certain "idioms" are taken literally and wrongly by some.

Over time we all have to learn to think as God intended us to.
He has provided a few good teachers to perform that service.
We must unlearn our natural way of seeing things.

Biggest problem is.....

There will be MANY false teachers awaiting to mislead.
On the journey the choices they present will be broad and wide.
All destructive.

Good teachers?
Not broad and wide in what they teach.
And, only a few believers will endure long enough to "find it."

“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction,
and there are many who go in by it."“ Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which
leads to life, and there are few who find it.​

Matthew 7:13-14

 

[PaulThomson]

Yes — εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας does indeed mean “unto the ages”, and in biblical Greek it functions idiomatically to mean “forever.”

Not really “unto” the ages, but “into“ the ages. Unto means "up to", and is “pros" in Greek. Going unto/up (pros) to a city and going into (eis) a city are not the same thing.

εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας only functions idiomatically to mean “forever”, if one arbitrarily chooses to understand it as forever. That would be like saying that sometimes mammals are cats, therefore idiomatically “putting a hypodermic needle into a cat” functions idiomatically to mean “injecting a mammal", as if every time someone reports that a vet injected a mammal, they mean they injected a cat.

Mammal and cat are different concepts. Into the age and forever are also different concepts.

 

[GWH]

God has saved people who most would say are completely corrupt. John Newton, who wrote "Amazing Grace" and "How sweet the name of Jesus sounds" was a slave trader. How much lower can you go? I read the testimony of a man who was incensed because people were going to a meeting and bypassing his bar. He went to the meeting with a gun, intending to kill the preacher. He listened to what the preacher had to say and went out the front, gun and all, and repented and was saved.

Nicky Cruz, gang leader and a career criminal: https://www.christianity.com/wiki/people/nicky-cruz.html

Romans 3:10 & 11
“There is no one righteous, not even one. There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God."

God loves and saves sinners. Those who are forgiven much love much.

Yes, only God knows when sinners are totally depraved and will never repent/seek God or stop blaspheming God's HS/demeaning His love and justness. God loves and wants to save everyone.
Scriptures teaching divine omnilove include: 1John 4:7-12, Rom. 5:8, Matt. 5:44&48, Gal. 5:6&14, Eph. 3:17b-19, Eph. 5:2 &
1Tim. 2:3-4. Christ died to show God’s love and the possible salvation of all (Rom. 5:6-8) including His enemies (ungodly, atheist, anti-Christ, heretics).
Scriptures teaching that God is just include: 2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, & Rev. 15:3. Explanations of God’s Word should not impugn God’s justice and love for all people (Joel 2:13, John 3:16).

 

[Roger316]

Not really “unto” the ages, but “into“ the ages. Unto means "up to", and is “pros" in Greek. Going unto/up (pros) to a city and going into (eis) a city are not the same thing.

εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας only functions idiomatically to mean “forever”, if one arbitrarily chooses to understand it as forever. That would be like saying that sometimes mammals are cats, therefore idiomatically “putting a hypodermic needle into a cat” functions idiomatically to mean “injecting a mammal", as if every time someone reports that a vet injected a mammal, they mean they injected a cat.

Mammal and cat are different concepts. Into the age and forever are also different concepts.

I don't see your analogy.

 

[Wansvic]

Salvation is an ongoing process. Some relevant points were touched upon in an article I read recently:

"Scripture warns believers to continue, endure, remain faithful, and guard what they have received.
Warnings would have little meaning if it were impossible for a person to walk away from God.

• Jesus said: “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered.”John 15:6
  • A branch cannot be cut off unless it was first connected.
• Paul said: “Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” Romans 11:22
  • This warning was given to those who were already born again.
• Hebrews 3:12 says:“Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.”
  • A person cannot depart from somewhere they have never been.

Additional passages such as Hebrews 10:26–29, 2 Peter 2:20–21, and Galatians 5:4 further emphasize the seriousness of abandoning covenant relationship with God.

Salvation is not a one-time event.

• The good news is that God still calls to those who have drifted away.
• The door of repentance remains open while there is breath.

We are not called merely to begin the journey. We are called to finish faithfully." excerpt from Apostolic Doctrine Today

 

[mailmandan]

who or how am I judging?

we are judged according to our works!

What will works determine for believers at the judgment seat of Christ? 1 Corinthians 3:11 - For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire/as one escaping through the flames. Like running out of a burning building. What you worked for was burned up yet you were still saved. We are saved by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

rom 2:6-10

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 ;But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

thks

If one reads Romans 2:6-11 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it’s critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These good works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.

*Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose our hearts.

These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit, but not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:24-28; 4:4-6; 11:6; Philippians 3:9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

 

[mailmandan]

Salvation is an ongoing process.

Don't confuse justification (which is a one-time event - Romans 5:1) with progressive or ongoing sanctification (1 Thessalonians 4:3-4) which is an ongoing process.

Some relevant points were touched upon in an article I read recently:

"Scripture warns believers to continue, endure, remain faithful, and guard what they have received.
Warnings would have little meaning if it were impossible for a person to walk away from God.

The problem is you find make believers mixed in with genuine believers throughout scripture (Matthew 7:15-23; John 2:23-25; 6:64-71; 8:31-59; Acts 8:13-23; 2 Corinthians 11:13-15; Hebrews 3:8-14; 4:2-3; 10:39; Jude 1:5 etc..) throughout various churches today and on various Christian forum sites. Hence, the warnings.

Jesus said: “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered.”John 15:6

• A branch cannot be cut off unless it was first connected.

In John 15:2-6, the branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot). In John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas.

John 15 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

• Paul said: “Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” Romans 11:22

The Israelites (Jews) were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26). We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God.

Professing Christians, who are Gentiles, are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it would appear that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. I see the warning to this collective body, which is corporately joined to Christ and is in a covenant relationship, but how could this mean that every individual in it is in saving union with Christ? Hence the "cut off." Union with Christ applies to the elect, and only for the elect are, "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." (verse 29) But since non-elect covenant members are mixed in, Christ clearly appears to have non-elect branches, like Judas Iscariot (John 15:1-8) and while they may be joined outwardly in covenant with Christ, since they have professed faith in Jesus, the faith of some of them is spurious because they were never truly saved to begin with.

• 
  This warning was given to those who were already born again.
• Hebrews 3:12 says:“Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.”
  • A person cannot depart from somewhere they have never been.

In Hebrews 3:8-10, we read - do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness, where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, and saw My works forty years. Therefore, I was angry with that generation, and said, 'They always go astray in their heart, and they have not known My ways.' Not descriptive of genuine believers. There is no loss of salvation here. Only a failure to receive it.

Verses 18-19 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So, we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. That explains the hardened heart. It took them in the opposite direction of God. Considered the truth for a time, then hardened heart and departing from God became their final answer.

*Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people (the Israelites) out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. NOT later destroyed those who stopped believing but DID NOT BELIEVE.

Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, in which we read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

The wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been, and now are a partaker of Christ" (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast the beginning of your confidence steadfast to the end." Holding fast is proof of genuine conversion.

The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in Christ and the only ones in the end who will be identified as truly born-again Hebrews who have partaken in Christ, will have been those who have held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. Now what about those faltering Hebrews who depart from God, yet begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty? But then later? Holding fast is proof of genuine conversion.

CONTINUED..

 

[mailmandan]

Additional passages such as Hebrews 10:26–29,

In regard to Hebrews 10:26, To "sin willfully" carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a ongoing, willful, habitual action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9). *Hermeneutics.

If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) I've heard eternal IN-securists try to get around the truth here by either saying forever doesn't really mean forever or "once for all and for all time" ONLY applies to "the offering of the body of Jesus Christ," but not to the person who is sanctified. Yet in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled underfoot the Son of God and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

*In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse. (And by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So, the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

2 Peter 2:20–21,

In regard to 2 Peter 2:20, those who are truly born of God have received a new nature, a divine nature. They have been transformed from pigs and dogs into sheep. The change is more than just cosmetic, as in 2 Peter 2:20. *These cleaned up on the outside dogs and pigs were never sheep.

Compare 2 Peter 1:4 - "partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption - Strongs #5356 that is in the world through lust with 2 Peter 2:20 - with they escaped the pollutions - Strongs #3356 (different Greek word) of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, yet they are again entangled therein, and overcome. *Notice that 2 Peter 2:20 did not mention them being "partakers of the divine nature."

Corruption is deeper than pollutions on the outside. It is decay on the inside.

Having the knowledge of Jesus Christ does not save a person if there is no heart submission to that knowledge. The latter end is worse than the beginning for these men because rejecting this knowledge will make them more accountable at the judgment. Judas Iscariot is a good example.

and Galatians 5:4 further emphasize the seriousness of abandoning covenant relationship with God.

The present tense of the word "justified" implies that these Galatians were contemplating justification by the law. They were getting side tracked by legalistic teachers. "You who are trying to be justified by the law have fallen away from grace," but had they fully come to that place yet? Galatians 3:3 reads: Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? The middle voice implies "making yourselves perfect" by means of self effort. The present tense indicates that the action is in progress and that there is still time to correct the error.

If these Galatians lost their salvation and it was a done deal, then why didn't Paul simply say you "lost your salvation" and I'm done with you? Instead, in verse 10, he said - I have confidence in you, in the Lord, that you will have no other mind; but he who troubles you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. Why would Paul have confidence in these Galatians if they lost their salvation and it's all over for them? In verse 12, Paul uses hyperbole, As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

Those who "permanently" fall away fit 1 John 2:19 - IF THEY HAVE BEEN OF US THEN THEY WOULD HAVE CONTINUED WITH US. Paul did not say these Galatians lost their salvation and it's all over for them. When Jesus was arrested, the 11 remaining disciples were said to "fall away" in Matthew 26:31-35. Did they lose their salvation? NO.

Salvation is not a one-time event.

• The good news is that God still calls to those who have drifted away.
• The door of repentance remains open while there is breath.

We are not called merely to begin the journey. We are called to finish faithfully." excerpt from Apostolic Doctrine Today

Justification is a one-time even and those he justified, he also glorified. (Romans 8:30) Finishing the journey confirms that we have truly begun the journey. Beginning and ending the journey claiming to be a believer and embracing a false gospel saves no one.

 

[Genez]

I don't see your analogy.

He tries hard.

 

[Genez]

Salvation is an ongoing process. Some relevant points were touched upon in an article I read recently:

"Scripture warns believers to continue, endure, remain faithful, and guard what they have received.
Warnings would have little meaning if it were impossible for a person to walk away from God.

• Jesus said: “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered.”John 15:6
  • A branch cannot be cut off unless it was first connected.
• Paul said: “Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” Romans 11:22
  • This warning was given to those who were already born again.
• Hebrews 3:12 says:“Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.”
  • A person cannot depart from somewhere they have never been.

Additional passages such as Hebrews 10:26–29, 2 Peter 2:20–21, and Galatians 5:4 further emphasize the seriousness of abandoning covenant relationship with God.

Salvation is not a one-time event.

• The good news is that God still calls to those who have drifted away.
• The door of repentance remains open while there is breath.

We are not called merely to begin the journey. We are called to finish faithfully." excerpt from Apostolic Doctrine Today

We can walk away from God's plan and will for our lives.

Yet, God has his plan and will for our lives because we became His own when we believed.

​

All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never ​

drive away. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of ​

him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all ​

those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that ​

everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will ​

raise them up at the last day.” John 6:37-40​

​

Note!​

For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of ​

him who sent me.​

​

For us to lose our salvation?
Would mean Jesus failed to do the Father's will!

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all ​

those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. ​

​

God wants Satan to have zero satisfaction in Hell to think he could do something to cause God to lose one of his own.
Once you are saved? We are now God's property! God owns us!!!

Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom ​

you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. ​

Therefore, honor God with your bodies." ​

​

1 Corinthians 6:19-20​

 

[PaulThomson]

I don't see your analogy.

https://christianchat.com/goto/post?id=5750191

PaulThomson said:
"Not really “unto” the ages, but “into“ the ages. Unto means "up to", and is “pros" in Greek. Going unto/up (pros) to a city and going into (eis) a city are not the same thing.

εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας only functions idiomatically to mean “forever”, if one arbitrarily chooses to understand it as forever. That would be like saying that sometimes mammals are cats, therefore idiomatically “putting a hypodermic needle into a cat” functions idiomatically to mean “injecting a mammal", as if every time someone reports that a vet injected a mammal, they mean they injected a cat.

Mammal and cat are different concepts. Into the age and forever are also different concepts."

I made a mistake in that boldened conclusion.

It should say -

εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας only functions idiomatically to mean “forever”, if one arbitrarily chooses to understand it as forever. That would be like saying that sometimes mammals are cats, therefore idiomatically “putting a hypodermic needle into a cat” functions idiomatically to mean “injecting a mammal", as if every time someone reports on a vet injecting a mammal, they may say idiomatically, “The vet injected a cat."

“He injected a cat” and “He injected a mammal” are both true, if the mammal was a cat. He injected a cat would not be true, if the injected mammal was a horse of dog. "Into the ages" and :everlasting” are both true od a time period only if that period is everlastingly int the ages. If it is into seven of an infinite number of ages, it would not be everlasting.

However, we were actually discussing Matt. 25:46, which uses aiOnion, an adjective, age long. "eis ton aiOnas” is “into the ages”, a different phrase not used in Matt. 25:46.

If aiOnion (aeonous/age-long) means having no presently determinable end, then an endless period can be aiOnion (aeonous/age-long). But it can also refer to periods of time that have ends and are not everlasting. So, since it can refer to periods that are limited in duration, one needs to be able to justify interpreting aiOnion as everlasting in any particular context. I have justified it not meaning everlasting in Matt. 25:46, so it is not at all certain that it must mean everlasting in Matt 25:46.