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Is This a Hyper-Grace Doctrine of Men FORUM?
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Mitspa
Guest
"I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me"... Legalism is nothing but dead works .
K
KennethC
Guest
Wrong again as Paul preached on repentance, and your scripture again does not speak of a one time repentance.........Try Again !!!
Ken, with all the sincerity I can possibly muster, I can promise you, I COULD NEVER overcome certain habitual sins NO MATTER how hard I tried. I went through HORRIBLE experiences because of this wrong thinking. It was ONLY the Holy Spirit opening my eyes to the fact that it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to overcome them EVEN though I believed in Jesus sacrificial death on the cross and His subsequent resurrection.
The Lord upheld me during that awful time and showed me that JESUS had ALREADY won the battle I was still trying to fight. THAT IS THE THE TRUE GRACE THAT ENABLED ME TO STOP THOSE PERSISTENT SINS.Yes, I still sin, but it DOES NOT control or define me. Who I am in Christ does. I pray in Jesus name, that He would reveal this Truth to you as well.
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Mitspa
Guest
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Ro 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
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Mitspa
Guest
Post scripture ..not your opinion form by your legalist errors...
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Ro 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Let's look at it through what scripture has to say about repentance concerning preaching the gospel. I know we have been taught differently through our religious upbringing and beliefs handed down to us. Let's let God's word speak life to us.
Peter preached the gospel of the grace of Christ. to Cornelius ..no repentence used
Acts 10:43-44 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
They were not told to "repent" here. I love how the Holy Spirit "falls upon " them as soon s they hear about the forgiveness of sins proclaimed to them because of Christ!
All of heaven is attracted to Jesus and when He is exalted. When His work is proclaimed - that's when the Holy Spirit rushes to confirm the "things" of our Lord
Peter got in trouble with the jewish Christians when he went back...he says in Acts 11:17,18
Acts 11:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"
[SUP]18 [/SUP] When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."
What was there repentance?...they changed their mind toward God and had faith in Jesus.
Notice that it was God that granted them repentance. New Covenant repentance is not something we conjure up on our own nor is it a work we produce.
2 Tim 2:24-25 says that God may grant them repentance so that they may know the truth. God grants the repentance..not a work we do on our own.
Paul preached the gospel of grace here in the only recorded time in scripture.
Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,
[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
Again ..no telling them to "repent"...but Paul did tell them .." urged them to continue in the grace of God"
Both of the examples we have of New Covenant preaching about the gospel of grace had NO words of telling people to repent.
These clearly show that "repentance " was not told to them
So, another point..does repentance mean to be sorrowful for your sin? Judas "repented "
Matthew 27:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
The word used here for "repent" is not the same word for normally used for repentance ( which is = change your mind in greek )..the word used here is completely different..it means to be sorrowful.
So, repentance does not mean "turn from sin '..it means change your mind and turn to God and believe in Jesus and hat He has done.
There is a change after we come to Christ and His life in us transforms us.
We do not say it's ok to sin...grace says the exact opposite...and maybe no matter how many times we say it..people will only "hear" what they want to believe.
We all need to repent every day as we hear the beauty of our Lord proclaimed!
Brethern ...I urge you to believe in the awesome greatness and splendor of our Lord's magnificent finished work on our behalf!
Peter preached the gospel of the grace of Christ. to Cornelius ..no repentence used
Acts 10:43-44 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.
They were not told to "repent" here. I love how the Holy Spirit "falls upon " them as soon s they hear about the forgiveness of sins proclaimed to them because of Christ!
All of heaven is attracted to Jesus and when He is exalted. When His work is proclaimed - that's when the Holy Spirit rushes to confirm the "things" of our Lord
Peter got in trouble with the jewish Christians when he went back...he says in Acts 11:17,18
Acts 11:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"
[SUP]18 [/SUP] When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."
What was there repentance?...they changed their mind toward God and had faith in Jesus.
Notice that it was God that granted them repentance. New Covenant repentance is not something we conjure up on our own nor is it a work we produce.
2 Tim 2:24-25 says that God may grant them repentance so that they may know the truth. God grants the repentance..not a work we do on our own.
Paul preached the gospel of grace here in the only recorded time in scripture.
Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,
[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
Again ..no telling them to "repent"...but Paul did tell them .." urged them to continue in the grace of God"
Both of the examples we have of New Covenant preaching about the gospel of grace had NO words of telling people to repent.
These clearly show that "repentance " was not told to them
So, another point..does repentance mean to be sorrowful for your sin? Judas "repented "
Matthew 27:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
The word used here for "repent" is not the same word for normally used for repentance ( which is = change your mind in greek )..the word used here is completely different..it means to be sorrowful.
So, repentance does not mean "turn from sin '..it means change your mind and turn to God and believe in Jesus and hat He has done.
There is a change after we come to Christ and His life in us transforms us.
We do not say it's ok to sin...grace says the exact opposite...and maybe no matter how many times we say it..people will only "hear" what they want to believe.
We all need to repent every day as we hear the beauty of our Lord proclaimed!
Brethern ...I urge you to believe in the awesome greatness and splendor of our Lord's magnificent finished work on our behalf!
M
Mitspa
Guest
The reason some of you don't see the power of grace over your sin...is because you don't really believe the truth...if you start believing the bible ..you will start seeing the power of the truth. you have to believe the bible first...then you see the power of grace ...
you cant say I don't believe in the power of grace and then expect grace to work....
you cant say I don't believe in the power of grace and then expect grace to work....
Hmmmm the greek just says " change the mind"..
remember what happened to Eve when she "added" her own words to what God said..." You shall not eat of the tree...nor shall you touch it.."...Eve added her own stuff to the word of God..and look what happened to her?..just sayin'
remember what happened to Eve when she "added" her own words to what God said..." You shall not eat of the tree...nor shall you touch it.."...Eve added her own stuff to the word of God..and look what happened to her?..just sayin'
S
sydlit
Guest
I apologize I'm a slow typer on a slow tablet. I submit a question and find 3 answers already posted. I try to keep up, but am not IT savvy like some ppl here who've spent years on computers. This is still fairly new to me. I really want to interact, I know I don't know much about much, but feel like I may have a little bit to contribute, and I do have honest questions and much to learn, I'm not just trying to 'trap' ppl, (always,
), I honestly AM wanting to learn, but I do have a certain way I look at this debate, although I think I could argue both sides of it, not to be double-minded, but just because some of these things aren't crystal clear to me all the time. I do know Jesus said 'Go and sin no more', I also believe they, (and we all) did. And do. And I'm trying to reconcile that with God's grace and obedience and salvation/eternal security. Sorry if I seem to interrupt a thread, am just trying to be a part of the discussion. Maybe a second tablet would help so I could read and write at the same time. This one post took me 20 minutes, and by the time I hit the submit button, the threads liable to be closed. Lol.
K
KennethC
Guest
WOW !!!
I do not say this often but I would warn you that is not the Holy Spirit speaking to you if the spirit told you it is impossible to overcome them.
That completely contradicts that Word of God that says to believers in Christ "ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE" !!!
Some spirit is trying to mislead you to think they are of Christ when they really aren't, because if it was the Holy Spirit He would not be telling you its impossible to overcome them. That is denying the working power of the Holy Spirit !!!
I would say you need some help and guidance from a better support group because any sinful behavior can be overcame !!!
I will pray for you to receive His Spirit and the proper guidance in this !!!
You just proved my point. This is the absurd level that this discussion descends to. Paul wasn't a puppet with GOD working the strings. Paul labored in the grace of GOD. Yet the hyper grace crowd tries to characterize it as Paul not really working, but GOD doing it. Madness.
M
Mitspa
Guest
(I posted a direct quote from scripture) .....
Of course he was empowered by God ...and had no confidence in his own ability .... Yes its called the foolishness of the cross ..
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
K
KennethC
Guest
I apologize I'm a slow typer on a slow tablet. I submit a question and find 3 answers already posted. I try to keep up, but am not IT savvy like some ppl here who've spent years on computers. This is still fairly new to me. I really want to interact, I know I don't know much about much, but feel like I may have a little bit to contribute, and I do have honest questions and much to learn, I'm not just trying to 'trap' ppl, (always,
Sorry if I seem to interrupt a thread, am just trying to be a part of the discussion. Maybe a second tablet would help so I could read and write at the same time. This one post took me 20 minutes, and by the time I hit the submit button, the threads liable to be closed. Lol.
That is okay and fine as we all should be seeking to grow and mature in the faith !!!
I always state the simplicity that is in the scriptures and try to avoid going into these long drawn out, or educational responses that some make it out that only a college education can understand God's word.
What the Word of God says is simple for those of us who have the Holy Spirit, it only gets complicated when we start placing men's ways above God's for learning !!!
M
Mitspa
Guest
I think the difference is that I hear you say you desire to labor to show yourself approved, and others feel that approval already, so they simply want to do something for God.
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KennethC
Guest
Nice picture but it does not point out the fact of those who thought they were saved but instead were:
Matthew 13:42
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
I don't think that KennethC was saying that we are sinless. Sinless perfection is a sad false doctrine that many in the church are beginning to believe which is not scriptural. Due to our flesh bodies, we will never be completely sinless. God is just looking for a heart purposed for Him and to find us doing His will. We haven't been glorified yet... the end result of our race of faith which is our lifelong Sanctification Process. Let us run so as to win that prize 
KennethC, you brought up that this topic detracts from the usual OSAS discussions.
I would say that it continues the OSAS discussions, because Hyper-Grace relies on OSAS for many arguments and on many levels. To truly combat hyper-grace, one needs to deal with the error of OSAS and work from there.
God's grace abounds indeed! When we turn to God and repent for our sin, it is His grace that Jesus, our one Advocate and Mediator is good to forgive us our sins! This is why His sacrifice at the cross and His blood removed our past sins and keeps us from the power of current and future sins when we repent! The problem is that God's message of grace isn't new and is clearly shown in the scriptures. How much more abounding is God's grace that He accepts us back with open arms as we turn from our sins committed and return to Him as we repent? This is an amazing depiction of His grace.
We deal now with grace as the "modern" church has re-envisioned it as this new "hyper-grace." God's grace is abounding yes, but when we look at Hyper-Grace supported by OSAS, we have a new doctrine of "grace." Hyper-Grace takes elements of the grace God gives us in the bible and shores it up with some doctrines of man. It mixes truth with some leaven and as a result we have a more subtle error entering our understanding of doctrine. It uses many words that are correct, but at the core premise we have an issue as it denies once again the scriptures showing our necessity to repent.
License to sin? This is another faulty argument based on the belief that sin has no consequences. For the believer and the unbeliever, sin does have consequences. Since God loves us, He must be just. God's grace shows us the necessity to repent to the Lord for sins committed after salvation! The reason why the license to sin argument keeps on being brought up is that may people keep saying that there are no serious consequences for sin after salvation. People keep on saying that we do not need to repent for forgiveness of our sins after salvation. The fact that our Mediator and Advocate does forgive us our sins when we repent as His children shows us how amazing God's grace is!
Can we move to now stop using the term hyper-grace? Instead, let us return to the grace stated in the bible and work from there? Hyper-grace has been shown to be "tainted" with odd doctrine. I know people on both sides of the issue don't like the term hyper-grace/greasy grace, so let us just call God's grace... grace.
KennethC, you brought up that this topic detracts from the usual OSAS discussions.
I would say that it continues the OSAS discussions, because Hyper-Grace relies on OSAS for many arguments and on many levels. To truly combat hyper-grace, one needs to deal with the error of OSAS and work from there.
God's grace abounds indeed! When we turn to God and repent for our sin, it is His grace that Jesus, our one Advocate and Mediator is good to forgive us our sins! This is why His sacrifice at the cross and His blood removed our past sins and keeps us from the power of current and future sins when we repent! The problem is that God's message of grace isn't new and is clearly shown in the scriptures. How much more abounding is God's grace that He accepts us back with open arms as we turn from our sins committed and return to Him as we repent? This is an amazing depiction of His grace.
We deal now with grace as the "modern" church has re-envisioned it as this new "hyper-grace." God's grace is abounding yes, but when we look at Hyper-Grace supported by OSAS, we have a new doctrine of "grace." Hyper-Grace takes elements of the grace God gives us in the bible and shores it up with some doctrines of man. It mixes truth with some leaven and as a result we have a more subtle error entering our understanding of doctrine. It uses many words that are correct, but at the core premise we have an issue as it denies once again the scriptures showing our necessity to repent.
License to sin? This is another faulty argument based on the belief that sin has no consequences. For the believer and the unbeliever, sin does have consequences. Since God loves us, He must be just. God's grace shows us the necessity to repent to the Lord for sins committed after salvation! The reason why the license to sin argument keeps on being brought up is that may people keep saying that there are no serious consequences for sin after salvation. People keep on saying that we do not need to repent for forgiveness of our sins after salvation. The fact that our Mediator and Advocate does forgive us our sins when we repent as His children shows us how amazing God's grace is!
Can we move to now stop using the term hyper-grace? Instead, let us return to the grace stated in the bible and work from there? Hyper-grace has been shown to be "tainted" with odd doctrine. I know people on both sides of the issue don't like the term hyper-grace/greasy grace, so let us just call God's grace... grace.
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KennethC
Guest
That means he don't really use the scriptures..just his opinion
Who are you speaking to, if you are going to accuse somebody it would be better to say who you are trying to speak on instead of make blanket statements which is the same as bearing false witness because you absolutely provide no proof to your claim !!!