Is this what it says in the greek?

[Pamella]

I know I should learn how to do it myself, I just haven't yet. I'd rather ask.

'But women will be preserved thru the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self -restraint. ' 1 Tim 2:15

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Looks good except for the last word, which I think is better translated, soundness of mind.

Here's the same verse in interlinear-type format > 1 Timothy 2:15 Greek Text Analysis

You can use it for any NT verse > Englishman's Greek Concordance

 

[crossnote]

Maybe the word 'preserved' / 'saved' in some trans. is troubling you.

σῴζω (and σώζω) impf. pass. ἐσῳζόμην; fut. σώσω; 1aor. ἔσωσα; pf. σέσωκα; pf. pass. σέσῳσμαι; 1aor. pass. ἐσώθην; 1fut. pass. σωθήσομαι; save, preserve from harm, rescue; (1) of natural dangers and afflictions; (a) in relation to acute physical danger deliver, save, rescue (AC 27.20); (b) in relation to a stressful and threatening situation save, bring out safely (JN 12.27); (c) in relation to sickness and disease heal, cure, restore to health (MT 9.21); (2) in a religious sense, in relation to spiritual dangers and threat of eternal death; (a) save, rescue from sin, bring to salvation (RO 5.9; EP 2.8); (b) of human beings mediating the divine salvation (RO 11.14; 1C 7.16); (c) of the instrumentality of spiritual things, as God's Word, baptism, faith, that lead to salvation save, deliver (JA 1.21; 2.14; 1P 3.21) (ALGNT)

So it can have an eternal angle or a temporal. In this case by the context it is temporal.

 

[trofimus]

I know I should learn how to do it myself, I just haven't yet. I'd rather ask.

'But women will be preserved thru the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self -restraint. ' 1 Tim 2:15

There should probably be "saved" instead of "preserved".

 

[crossnote]

There should be "saved" instead of "preserved".

Preserved is fine. It is not speaking of our eternal standing.

 

[trofimus]

Preserved is fine. It is not speaking of our eternal standing.

σωθήσεται is used almost without exception as "will be saved" in whole New Testament...

 

[bikerchaz]

Yes it does, and it does seem to be quite chauvinistic, I wouldn't put too big an emphasis on this one verse though.
In context it says;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]A woman[SUP][a][/SUP] should learn in quietness and full submission. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[SUP][b][/SUP] she must be quiet. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For Adam was formed first, then Eve. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. [SUP]15 [/SUP]But women[SUP][c][/SUP] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.


This was a personal letter to Timothy and he had a job to do which might put a slant on it. 'Might'. If you have a commentary or a bible dictionary to hand look up First Timothy and see if the historical background has any bearing on the verse, but it seems to me to be about relationships between couples and church etiquette.
Paul was also led by the Spirit to say there was no difference between male and female, free and slave Jew and Greek in Jesus, which would seem to challenge this view if it were chauvinistic.

The church at Corinth seemed to be beset with gender problems, which with a little common sense and a bit of historical incite show that women in that society had their own agenda which spilled over into the church, bought about by war and a lack of males.

A few of Paul's sayings he directly a tributes to himself and not the Holy Spirit, especially where women are concerned.
There are reasons we are different, firstly if us men had to give birth even Able would not have been born, and the Human race would have died out after Cain (any husband that has been at a birth will agree, even if it is tongue in cheek), and usually strength levels are different between us.

As for the self restraint bit, If it wasn't for Jesus and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit none of us would have the self restraint we would need to be overcomer's.

I would not worry unduly about these verses, if there is anything in your life that Jesus needs changing, believe me He will lead you there, no matter what I tell you.
God bless

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

2 Ti 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve [SUP]G4982[/SUP] (sōzō) me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

1 Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved [SUP]G4982[/SUP] (sōzō) in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.



There are two examples I have showing how the same word appears as translated

to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction

1. one (from injury or peril)
   1. to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health
   2. to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue
2. to save in the technical biblical sense
   1. negatively
      1. to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment
      2. to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance
         
         Two words can often be synonymous

 

[crossnote]

σωθήσεται is used almost without exception as "will be saved" in whole New Testament...

Which version of the NT?

Also are you going to say a woman is saved (as we commonly understand it ...eternally) through child bearing? Sounds a little like works to me.

 

[trofimus]

Which version of the NT?
Also are you going to say a woman is saved (as we commonly understand it ...eternally) through child bearing? Sounds a little like works to me.

I use textus receptus.
Of course not, that would contradict many other places in New Testament. I think this verse is talking about the role of women in the world.
First woman, Eve, as the representant of all women, made humanity to fall. And christian woman, if she has children that will stay in holiness, can "revert" this negative role by restoring her children to godly position.

Or it can be about Mary and her child It depends on our theological explanation. But still I think the word should be translated as "saved", because it means it in 99% of usage.

 

[psychomom]

I use textus receptus.
Of course not, that would contradict many other places in New Testament. I think this verse is talking about the role of women in the world.
First woman, Eve, as the representant of all women, made humanity to fall. And christian woman, if she has children that will stay in holiness, can "revert" this negative role by restoring her children to godly position.

uh......wat??

(refuses to even get into the whole 'what about unmarried women or infertile couples' angle )

 

[crossnote]

σωθήσεται is used almost without exception as "will be saved" in whole New Testament...

I use textus receptus.
Of course not, that would contradict many other places in New Testament. I think this verse is talking about the role of women in the world.
First woman, Eve, as the representant of all women, made humanity to fall. And christian woman, if she has children that will stay in holiness, can "revert" this negative role by restoring her children to godly position.

Or it can be about Mary and her child It depends on our theological explanation. But still I think the word should be translated as "saved", because it means it in 99% of usage.

σωθήσεται is probably found also in the other compilations of manuscripts not just the Textus Receptus.
My point is that it is translated differently and more accurately in other English translations e.g. 'preserved'.

 

[trofimus]

σωθήσεται is probably found also in the other compilations of manuscripts not just the Textus Receptus.
My point is that it is translated differently and more accurately in other English translations e.g. 'preserved'.

Of course it is found elsewhere. It was only response to what I use, nothing more.

Why do you think that "preserved" is more accurate?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

σωθήσεται is probably found also in the other compilations of manuscripts not just the Textus Receptus.
My point is that it is translated differently and more accurately in other English translations e.g. 'preserved'.

Here is its usage in the LXX

• Job 20:20 οὐκ ἔστιν αὐτοῦ σωτηρία τοῖς ὑπάρχουσιν, ※ἐν ἐπιθυμίᾳ αὐτοῦ οὐ σωθήσεται.
• Job 27:8 καὶ τίς γάρ ἐστιν ἐλπὶς ἀσεβεῖ ὅτι ἐπέχει; πεποιθὼς ἐπὶ κύριον ἆρα σωθήσεται;
• Ps 32:16 οὐ σῴζεται βασιλεὺς διὰ πολλὴν δύναμιν, καὶ γίγας οὐ σωθήσεται ἐν πλήθει ἰσχύος αὐτοῦ,
• Ps 32:17 ψευδὴς ἵππος εἰς σωτηρίαν, ἐν δὲ πλήθει δυνάμεως αὐτοῦ οὐ σωθήσεται.
• Prov 19:7 πᾶς, ὃς ἀδελφὸν πτωχὸν μισεῖ, καὶ φιλίας μακρὰν ἔσται. ἔννοια ἀγαθὴ τοῖς εἰδόσιν αὐτὴν ἐγγιεῖ, ἀνὴρ δὲ φρόνιμος εὑρήσει αὐτήν. ὁ πολλὰ κακοποιῶν τελεσιουργεῖ κακίαν, ὃς δὲ ἐρεθίζει λόγους, οὐ σωθήσεται.
• Prov 28:26 ὃς πέποιθεν θρασείᾳ καρδίᾳ, ὁ τοιοῦτος ἄφρων, ὃς δὲ πορεύεται σοφίᾳ, σωθήσεται.
• Prov 29:25 φοβηθέντες καὶ αἰσχυνθέντες ἀνθρώπους ὑπεσκελίσθησαν, ὁ δὲ πεποιθὼς ἐπὶ κύριον εὐφρανθήσεται. ἀσέβεια ἀνδρὶ δίδωσιν σφάλμα, ὃς δὲ πέποιθεν ἐπὶ τῷ δεσπότῃ, σωθήσεται.
• Isa 1:27 μετὰ γὰρ κρίματος σωθήσεται ἡ αἰχμαλωσία αὐτῆς καὶ μετὰ ἐλεημοσύνης,
• Isa 10:22 καὶ ἐὰν γένηται ὁ λαὸς Ισραηλ ὡς ἡ ἄμμος τῆς θαλάσσης, τὸ κατάλειμμα αὐτῶν σωθήσεται, λόγον γὰρ συντελῶν καὶ συντέμνων ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ,
• Isa 49:24 μὴ λήμψεταί τις παρὰ γίγαντος σκῦλα; καὶ ἐὰν αἰχμαλωτεύσῃ τις ἀδίκως, σωθήσεται;
• Isa 49:25 οὕτως λέγει κύριος Ἐάν τις αἰχμαλωτεύσῃ γίγαντα, λήμψεται σκῦλα, λαμβάνων δὲ παρὰ ἰσχύοντος σωθήσεται, ἐγὼ δὲ τὴν κρίσιν σου κρινῶ, καὶ ἐγὼ τοὺς υἱούς σου ῥύσομαι,
• Jer 23:6 ἐν ταῖς ἡμέραις αὐτοῦ σωθήσεται Ιουδας, καὶ Ισραηλ κατασκηνώσει πεποιθώς, καὶ τοῦτο τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ, ὃ καλέσει αὐτὸν κύριος Ιωσεδεκ.
• Jer 37:7 ἐγενήθη. ὅτι μεγάλη ἡ ἡμέρα ἐκείνη καὶ οὐκ ἔστιν τοιαύτη, καὶ χρόνος στενός ἐστιν τῷ Ιακωβ, καὶ ἀπὸ τούτου σωθήσεται.
• Ezek 17:15 καὶ ἀποστήσεται ἀπ̓ αὐτοῦ τοῦ ἐξαποστέλλειν ἀγγέλους ἑαυτοῦ εἰς Αἴγυπτον τοῦ δοῦναι αὐτῷ ἵππους καὶ λαὸν πολύν. εἰ κατευθυνεῖ; εἰ διασωθήσεται ὁ ποιῶν ἐναντία; καὶ παραβαίνων διαθήκην εἰ σωθήσεται;
• Ezek 17:18 καὶ ἠτίμωσεν ὁρκωμοσίαν τοῦ παραβῆναι διαθήκην, καὶ ἰδοὺ δέδωκεν τὴν χεῖρα αὐτοῦ καὶ πάντα ταῦτα ἐποίησεν αὐτῷ, μὴ σωθήσεται;
• Dan 12:1 καὶ ἐν τῷ καιρῷ ἐκείνῳ ἀναστήσεται Μιχαηλ ὁ ἄρχων ὁ μέγας ὁ ἑστηκὼς ἐπὶ τοὺς υἱοὺς τοῦ λαοῦ σου, καὶ ἔσται καιρὸς θλίψεως, θλῖψις οἵα οὐ γέγονεν ἀφ̓ οὗ γεγένηται ἔθνος ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ἕως τοῦ καιροῦ ἐκείνου, καὶ ἐν τῷ καιρῷ ἐκείνῳ σωθήσεται ὁ λαός σου, πᾶς ὁ εὑρεθεὶς γεγραμμένος ἐν τῇ βίβλῳ. καὶ κατὰ τὴν ὥραν ἐκείνην παρελεύσεται Μιχαηλ ὁ ἄγγελος ὁ μέγας ὁ ἑστηκὼς ἐπὶ τοὺς υἱοὺς τοῦ λαοῦ σου, ἐκείνη ἡ ἡμέρα θλίψεως, οἵα οὐκ ἐγενήθη ἀφ̓ οὗ ἐγενήθησαν ἕως τῆς ἡμέρας ἐκείνης, καὶ ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ὑψωθήσεται πᾶς ὁ λαός, ὃς ἂν εὑρεθῇ ἐγγεγραμμένος ἐν τῷ βιβλίῳ.
• Joel 3:5 καὶ ἔσται πᾶς, ὃς ἂν ἐπικαλέσηται τὸ ὄνομα κυρίου, σωθήσεται, ὅτι ἐν τῷ ὄρει Σιων καὶ ἐν Ιερουσαλημ ἔσται ἀνασῳζόμενος, καθότι εἶπεν κύριος, καὶ εὐαγγελιζόμενοι, οὓς κύριος προσκέκληται.
• Ps Solomon 6:1 Ἐν ἐλπίδι, τῷ Σαλωμων. Μακάριος ἀνήρ, οὗ ἡ καρδία αὐτοῦ ἑτοίμη ἐπικαλέσασθαι τὸ ὄνομα κυρίου, ἐν τῷ μνημονεύειν αὐτὸν τὸ ὄνομα κυρίου σωθήσεται.

 

[crossnote]

Of course it is found elsewhere. It was only response to what I use, nothing more.

Why do you think that "preserved" is more accurate?

It is better because in modern parlance the word 'saved' would sound like child bearing is a determinative of a woman's eternal salvation...and we know that ain't so.

 

[trofimus]

It is better because in modern parlance the word 'saved' would sound like child bearing is a determinative of a woman's eternal salvation...and we know that ain't so.

And what would that mean, that woman is "preserved" through childbearing?

 

[psalm6819]

Context is king because this verse is used by Aryan Nation and any misogynst to coerce women into child bearing.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And what would that mean, that woman is "preserved" through childbearing?

That would be, saved from death.

 

[crossnote]

And what would that mean, that woman is "preserved" through childbearing?

One commentator says...

2:15 saved in childbearing. This may mean (1) brought safely through childbirth, (2) saved through the birth of a Child (Jesus the Savior), or (3) that a woman's greatest achievement is found in her devotion to her divinely ordained role: to help her husband, to bear children, and to follow a faithful, chaste way of life.

All I am saying is that it has nothing to do with a woman's eternal salvation.

 

[trofimus]

One commentator says...

2:15 saved in childbearing. This may mean (1) brought safely through childbirth, (2) saved through the birth of a Child (Jesus the Savior), or (3) that a woman's greatest achievement is found in her devotion to her divinely ordained role: to help her husband, to bear children, and to follow a faithful, chaste way of life.

All I am saying is that it has nothing to do with a woman's eternal salvation.

I really dont think "preserved" instead of "saved" matches this verse.

"And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner..."
1) ... but she will brought safely through childbirth.. (this does not make any sense in context)
2) ... but she will be saved through the birth of a Child... ( OK, but you wanted to have "preserved" in text instead of "saved" and then you are to explain it by "saved"?)
3) ...but she fill find a woman's greatest achievement in her devotion to bear children... (this is not even the meaning of "preserved" at all)

The only one explanation that makes sense is the number 2, but in this case you need the word "saved", not "preserved".